IOTA

[iotatoken]

A reliable source has passed along a legal document in the ongoing lawsuit between Google and Microsoft over Google’s hiring of Kai-Fu Lee. The document is the “Declaration of Mark Lucovsky” in the case. Lucovsky was a distinguished engineer at Microsoft who defected to Google in November of 2004. His statement makes for some pretty interesting reading, to say the least.

The statement reads in part:

Prior to joining Google, I set up a meeting on or about November 11, 2004 with Microsoft’s CEO Steve Ballmer to discuss my planned departure….At some point in the conversation Mr. Ballmer said: “Just tell me it’s not Google.” I told him it was Google.

At that point, Mr. Ballmer picked up a chair and threw it across the room hitting a table in his office. Mr. Ballmer then said: “Fucking Eric Schmidt is a fucking pussy. I’m going to fucking bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I’m going to fucking kill Google.” ….

Just FYI   

FYI Ballmer nearly crippled Microsoft. 

Disregarding the absurd discussion I just need to add:

I dislike a lot of Ballmer's legacy as much as the next guy, mainly based on anecdotes from people who used to work for him that I work with now, but while he made some obvious errors, to his credit he did in fact kickstart Microsoft's venture into hardware. In fact he insisted on it to such a degree that he had a serious falling out with Bill Gates that wanted to stick to software, this lead to, among other things, the extremely successful 'Surface' line that is now being herald as the new flagship of Microsoft and even challenge Apple on their home turf, so he wasn't completely useless.

[kjadB]

A perspective from an economist

Secondary markets like the current IOTA/BTC market are essential to the primary market of the ICO. If there was no secondary market, the primary market would struggle. Imagine an ICO where investors know they will later not be able to sell their shares.

This link between primary and secondary market is not binary -- linked or not linked -- but instead very gradual: the more liquid a secondary market (and/or the higher the price), the better for for the primary market. If you think of the ICO as the initial primary market and today's market as the secondary market: without the expectation of the market today at the time of the ICO, the initial ICO market would not have existed (are much less of it).

In the nex step, you can think of today's market as the primary market and tomorrow's market as the secondary market. The logic is the same: the more liquid we expect the future market to be, the better for today's market (--> higher price today). This link is present from today to the (infinite) future.

The main lesson here is: any investor at any time always adds value to a project. Investors play an essential role for crypto projects in general, invluding IOTA. Of course, the coding is much more important. But the code would never come to its full potetnial wthout investors. Investors provide the financial incentive for all the devs in a project. Granted, there are incentives at work other than the financial one. But the financial incentive is rather important: after all, people have to eat from time to time.

Investors and developers live in a symbiosis.

Your logic is correct, but the company behind IOTA sold 'software', so the value of the token is not relevant to them. The metric to ultimately judge their performance is nodes in the field, not token value. As long as they're consistent I think they can continue to tell speculators to 'fuck off' (i.e. they can't claim credit for any x20 returns). David has chosen to reject the relevance of your analysis to IOTA, and as long as he doesn't claim credit for later secondary market values he's being consistent.

Despite agreeing with the validity of your economic explanation, with IOTA I am now using node numbers as the barometer to measure the success of this project. I changed my opinion from the start.


edit: I think a better analogy to use with IOTA is that of a creative pursuits like music, art, writing etc  The sincere artist always prefers to measure success using the metric of 'users' or 'consumers' or 'viewers' of their work, the financial metrics of success (i.e sales) is an emergent phenomenon arising from the number of users/viewers/readers etc. Any artist who focuses on the financial metric first will generally produce bad art, but the ones who focus on reching the widest audience generally make better art, and as a side-effect sometimes make money

Of course we can, and do, claim credit for the ROI. This is a non-starter. The difference lies in 2 things:

1) We never PROMISED anyone ANY ROI, so anyone complaining about anything related to it is worthless

2) The GOAL of the project is a genuine paradigm shift in the zeitgeist of technology. We are bringing about a new realm of economics through 'real time on demand' services which for the first time ever is enabled by zero fees, a machine-to-machine economy to open up interoperability of IoT and data integrity. These are all revolutionary concepts that a minority of IOTA holders seem to grasp in its entirety. Therefore this is our focus, money is easy, we are offered millions weekly to go into the private sector exclusively, not interesting. Changing a whole ecosystem is a worthy challenge, with a way better long term 'ROI'

You argue like a politician on ROI - if it looks good, I'll take the credit, when it looks bad,  'not my problem, I made no promises, I'm not responsible'. This is how every major political leader rationalises the world.

edit:
The relationship between ICO price, liquidity provided by speculators/investors in secondary market, and ROI is very clear. IOTA has not launched yet, so any ROI of x20 is due 100% to speculators in the secondary market, there has been no direct demand for the token from actual usage yet. Claiming credit for the x20 ROI is not correct logic, especially before IOTA is actually being used machine-to-machine as intended. Anyone who argues otherwise looks very foolish. The only metric that you should use to sing your own praises is number of nodes. All price related success is down to the speculators so far, and you tell them to 'fuck off' repeatedly.  Stick with node numbers as your yardstick and you wont end up looking like a dick.

You are a parody of a person, if I was half as dumb as you I'd officially end it and be an organ donor.

Wow, you prefer to use extreme insults rather than debate ideas, that's very sad. Your approach is more suited to the alcohol fuelled world of pubs & bars & fist fighting. It is perfectly acceptable to ignore me, or attack my ideas & opinions with logic - that is the usual approach in the arenas of ideas and opinions - but to use personal abuse as you do so easily is really quite amazing.

This is the basic 'idea/opinion' that generated David's abuse, I'll let the readers decide if it proves I am so dumb I should end my life.


While it has been common practice to use financial metrics to judge performance of crypto projects to date (e.g. trading price, trading volume, ROI etc), there exists another paradigm that may be better suited to tech development, namely 'creative pursuits' like art, music, literature. With creative pursuits the artist cares little about the financial metrics of their work (sales volume, ticket prices, tour profits etc), rather, they focus on user based metrics as a measure of success (best seller lists, album charts). Their goal is to reach the widest possible audience, and any financial success is an emergent phenomenon out of the user numbers, but the true artist will rarely care about the money itself, and many would gladly give away their work and performances cheaply, or even for free if it meant their work influenced a large audience. This same approach (focus on users, ignore financial metrics) is also clearly observable in the software dev world also. That's basically the open source approach.

My point with regard to IOTA is there has been some ongoing criticism and concern raised by some IOTA investors about financial issues like exchange listings and lite wallets etc, and my point to those critics would be to remind them that devs like CfB probably aren't interested in these 'financial' issues very much, same as a musician or writer isn't interested in things like ROI either. Most creative people want their work used as widely as possible, and if you ever hear an artist claiming they're work is 'good' because of ROI to backers then they're heart probably isn't really in the right place, but they might use a usage based metric to judge their success though, but that might include paid & unpaid users, but to the true artist they probably don't care that much whether users paid or didn't pay, as long as they make enough money to continue doing what they love doing, they just want an audience.

I think most of the best alt coin devs of 2013-16 fit into this description (i.e. think of them more like artists than business people), and CfB is clearly in this mold.

My point to David is he risks arguing like a politician though if he claims credit for financial metrics like current  ROI , but continues to abuse 'speculators' repeatedly for even raising similar related issues like exchange listings & access to lite wallets. The link between ICO price, speculators & liquidity, secondary market price, and thus ROI is very clear cut. The ROI to date is due to speculators in IOTA. So my point to David was don't portray yourself like a politician and claim ROI as your achievement when it's clear to everyone you have no effect on secondary market price (IOTA token secondary market price is pure speculation so far), think like an artist, and focus on user numbers to measure your success (i.e. node numbers). You should just never speak of ROI at all. If you claim the credit, you MUST accept some responsibility for the downside too. You claiming credit for ROI makes about as much sense as Justin Bieber's agent claiming he should get the next Nobel Prize for literature because he made more profits from downloads than Bob Dillon.


If you weren't so immature you might have detected some good advice above, and a compliment too, but you instead chose a childish macho display of abuse, which is totally out of context in this environment. Despite what some might think Bitcointalk forum is the alt coin world at this moment in time, and this is where people come to research projects, exchange ideas, form agreements, do business. Wall St. and Silicon Valley are cesspools too, but anybody operating in those worlds does not damage their reputation by thinking because there are 'crazy' elements around, they can conduct themselves as they would on a drunken night out and abuse people, dismiss ideas & opinions so casually, without later consequences.

Anyway, I will not post again here, I am invested in IOTA because I respect CfB, and as long as he is involved all should be OK.

[btcforks]

I want to ask a little bit, Is there no plans for IOTA team to launch an online wallet via the web so that it is easier

[iotatoken]

kjadB, I'm sorry, I forgot to add 'TRIGGER WARNING'

Seriously, to argue that we cannot say "We don't promise ROI" and "We caused the ROI", as if they are somehow mutually exclusive is so painfully dumb that yes, you come across as a troll/parody of a person.

We never promised anyone any ROI - Fact.
The work we do increase demand for the tokens and thus the value increase aka: ROI - Fact.

It's really this simple. There is no vagueness, no 'political speech', no need to write long winded pointless walls of text. The facts are very simple here, and the fact that you claim we are somehow dishonest for simply stating facts is indeed painful to process for a regular brain. You make it all the more obvious that you are a troll when you say that we somehow try to 'evade responsibility' when there is no ROI, so far in the history of IOTA there has never been a single instance where the tokens have had less value than they started at, but EVEN IF THEY DID, we'd still not be in any wrong, because we never PROMISED it.

TRIGGER WARNING

Here's another shocking truth: 1+1 = 2, please don't be triggered.

I literally can't fathom how people like you have survived, from now on you are known as Darwinian Paradox.

[iotatoken]

I want to ask a little bit, Is there no plans for IOTA team to launch an online wallet via the web so that it is easier

There is.

[iotatoken]

Carsten Stöcker of Innogy has joined IOTA Foundation

[zanzibar]

Nice addition to the team

[twistelaar]

Carsten Stöcker of Innogy has joined IOTA Foundation

This as a great new treasure for the IOTA team. Congrats  

Really obvious is that we can see IOTA is hiring the best people in the business.

And more importantly, it says more about the huge potential of IOTA as an technology and innovation, that such highly skilled people are joining the team.

[tobeaj2mer01]

Carsten Stöcker is really an expert.

[zanzibar]

Full blocks, high fees, stalled debate, we need Iota in the wild soon!

[oldisoft]

Carsten Stöcker of Innogy has joined IOTA Foundation

This as a great new treasure for the IOTA team. Congrats  

Really obvious is that we can see IOTA is hiring the best people in the business.

And more importantly, it says more about the huge potential of IOTA as an technology and innovation, that such highly skilled people are joining the team.

This is really important to see in Our Team best people with excellent experience !

Cheers

[LiskHQ]

Carsten Stöcker of Innogy has joined IOTA Foundation

Nice to see someone from the same university as me. The blockchain ecosystem evolves in Germany! Congratulations to the IOTA team, we should meet in Berlin!

[oldisoft]

IMPORTANT INFO FROM SLACK AND IOTA FORUM

http://forum.iotatoken.com/t/mandatory-snapshot-today-at-1pm-cet/1050

[luey]

IMPORTANT INFO FROM SLACK AND IOTA FORUM

http://forum.iotatoken.com/t/mandatory-snapshot-today-at-1pm-cet/1050

THIS IS ALSO A MANDATORY READ FOR ALL THAT IS RUNNING IOTA NODES.

[lurker10]

dominik 2016-11-26 15:12:18 UTC #3

Here is the final Snapshot: https://gist.github.com/domschiener/e47d3579f8e01f7315c2a2435782c5e4

found myself

[vlight]

dominik 2016-11-26 15:12:18 UTC #3

Here is the final Snapshot: https://gist.github.com/domschiener/e47d3579f8e01f7315c2a2435782c5e4

found myself

Can't find any of the addresses .... what is this snapshot? Wasn't the last claiming valid until the next year?  


Last snapshot that worked for me was:
https://forum.iotatoken.com/t/iota-snapshot-validation/965



Sorry if these are different purpose snapshots 

[lurker10]

dominik 2016-11-26 15:12:18 UTC #3

Here is the final Snapshot: https://gist.github.com/domschiener/e47d3579f8e01f7315c2a2435782c5e4

found myself

Can't find any of the addresses .... what is this snapshot? Wasn't the last claiming valid until the next year?  

It's a snapshot after following this:
http://forum.iotatoken.com/t/iota-transition-period-what-you-need-to-do/984
They said the deadline is 11th of July 2017, not sure if that deadline was changed.

[vlight]

It's a snapshot after following this:
http://forum.iotatoken.com/t/iota-transition-period-what-you-need-to-do/984
They said the deadline is 11th of July 2017, not sure if that deadline was changed.

So just 20 days after the last snapshot. This better be working until 11th of July 2017 or there will be a lot of people that missed this 

[bitcoinissatan]

I wish there was a wallet IOTA for the web, I think it would be easier to use for both beginners and other communities

[Scott J]

I wish there was a wallet IOTA for the web, I think it would be easier to use for both beginners and other communities

There will be eventually.