IOTA Crowdsale

[paris75010]

je ne comprends pas si IOTA n est pas une crypto ? pourquoi ici?

 c'est juste une boite qui fait un logiciel et qui cherche à lever des fonds pour son développement

possible un bon logiciel mais j'ai l impression qu elle profite du lancement des cryptos et faire une levé de fond déguisé.

elle joue sur la confusion non?

En effet elle rémunérera sous forme de "jeton" j ai l impression que c'est juste des "actions"

je me trompe?

[AltcoinScamfinder]

je ne comprends pas si IOTA n est pas une crypto ? pourquoi ici?

 c'est juste une boite qui fait un logiciel et qui cherche à lever des fonds pour son développement

possible un bon logiciel mais j'ai l impression qu elle profite du lancement des cryptos et faire une levé de fond déguisé.

elle joue sur la confusion non?

En effet elle rémunérera sous forme de "jeton" j ai l impression que c'est juste des "actions"

je me trompe?

Nope.

[bitme]

I think I messed up. When I read:

This means that you can not purchase via depositing directly from an account at an exchange or equivalent which often change the sender address repeatedly.

I went to my Poloniex account history and never saw my btc address being changed over the past months, so I assumed it was safe and Poloniex isnt an exchange that changes the btc address from time to time. But now it seems Poloniex use a different address themselves for transactions (seeing that on the blockchain). 1.32 btc down the drain?

Mistakes happen and we learn all the time.  I hope Your issue Wob will be solved positively - after all it's a matter of poloniex's stuff  good will.
Beeing in crypto for so long I know it's easy to mess up and we shouldn't be so rough for each other. Peace;)

[superresistant]

je ne comprends pas si IOTA n est pas une crypto ? pourquoi ici?
 c'est juste une boite qui fait un logiciel et qui cherche à lever des fonds pour son développement
possible un bon logiciel mais j'ai l impression qu elle profite du lancement des cryptos et faire une levé de fond déguisé.
elle joue sur la confusion non?
En effet elle rémunérera sous forme de "jeton" j ai l impression que c'est juste des "actions"
je me trompe?

Ils ne peuvent pas appeler IOTA une cryptomonnaie et donner des parts pour des contraintes légales .
Les gens s'en foutent en général car les cryptos ne sortent jamais du forum mais il y a des choses que l'on ne devrait pas faire.
Tu n'as pas le droit de vendre des actions comme tu veux.

En gros ils font comme la vente des Ether de Ethereum :
"Ether is a product, NOT a security or investment offering. Ether is simply a token useful for paying transaction fees or building or purchasing decentralized application services on the Ethereum platform; it does not give you voting rights over anything, and we make no guarantees of its future value."
https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/22/launching-the-ether-sale/

[rdanneskjoldr]

aaaand that's about the max that will be raised. 

I don't see many more buying now that the 15% incentive is gone.

Congratulations, everyone on the extra 15%.  Effectively everyone has 0% extra because we all cancel eachother out 

Unless of course I'm wrong and a lot more is raised from here on out.

No, because if more money comes in, it dilutes your % of IOTA more than what you earn for that 15% extra. So being selfish, with less money for IOTA development, you will get more IOTAs if no one else buys anymore and the 15% extra is denied.

[iotatoken]

aaaand that's about the max that will be raised. 

I don't see many more buying now that the 15% incentive is gone.

Congratulations, everyone on the extra 15%.  Effectively everyone has 0% extra because we all cancel eachother out 

Unless of course I'm wrong and a lot more is raised from here on out.

No, because if more money comes in, it dilutes your % of IOTA more than what you earn for that 15% extra. So being selfish, with less money for IOTA development, you will get more IOTAs if no one else buys anymore and the 15% extra is denied.

This glances over the most important variable: a healthy and self-sustaining community. We can develop the best technology in the universe and still have it fail if we don't get traction, as we've seen with millions of examples throughout history. So the more people who buy = more funding for development/growth of ecosystem and a more vital community, which in the long run will make the IOTAs infinitely more useful than if they are just scarce.

[martismartis]

aaaand that's about the max that will be raised. 

I don't see many more buying now that the 15% incentive is gone.

Congratulations, everyone on the extra 15%.  Effectively everyone has 0% extra because we all cancel eachother out 

Unless of course I'm wrong and a lot more is raised from here on out.

No, because if more money comes in, it dilutes your % of IOTA more than what you earn for that 15% extra. So being selfish, with less money for IOTA development, you will get more IOTAs if no one else buys anymore and the 15% extra is denied.

This glances over the most important variable: a healthy and self-sustaining community. We can develop the best technology in the universe and still have it fail if we don't get traction, as we've seen with millions of examples throughout history. So the more people who buy = more funding for development/growth of ecosystem and a more vital community, which in the long run will make the IOTAs infinitely more useful than if they are just scarce.

So, we just paid money for becoming community members? 

[iotatoken]

aaaand that's about the max that will be raised. 

I don't see many more buying now that the 15% incentive is gone.

Congratulations, everyone on the extra 15%.  Effectively everyone has 0% extra because we all cancel eachother out 

Unless of course I'm wrong and a lot more is raised from here on out.

No, because if more money comes in, it dilutes your % of IOTA more than what you earn for that 15% extra. So being selfish, with less money for IOTA development, you will get more IOTAs if no one else buys anymore and the 15% extra is denied.

This glances over the most important variable: a healthy and self-sustaining community. We can develop the best technology in the universe and still have it fail if we don't get traction, as we've seen with millions of examples throughout history. So the more people who buy = more funding for development/growth of ecosystem and a more vital community, which in the long run will make the IOTAs infinitely more useful than if they are just scarce.

So, we just paid money for becoming community members? 

Yes entrance fee to the exclusive group! Haha, no. But I think a lot people get too caught up in the numbers and fail to see the big picture. Sure owning a bigger % of something always seems the best, but if owning a big portion means that there are less people who care about the thing, then it's self-defeating. Liquidity and an active community is vital to organic growth. The IOTA community that we will run ( anyone is free to create their own, IOTA is 100% decentral ) will focus soley on growth of IOTA adoption and not discuss IOTA value from day to day at all, as that is just detrimental. Just look at nxtforum, which thread is most popular? Price speculation. When price speculation is more active than the enthusiasm in getting the project to be useful in the real world, then it's a sure sign of doom.

[lordoliver]

aaaand that's about the max that will be raised.  

I don't see many more buying now that the 15% incentive is gone.

Congratulations, everyone on the extra 15%.  Effectively everyone has 0% extra because we all cancel eachother out  

Unless of course I'm wrong and a lot more is raised from here on out.

No, because if more money comes in, it dilutes your % of IOTA more than what you earn for that 15% extra. So being selfish, with less money for IOTA development, you will get more IOTAs if no one else buys anymore and the 15% extra is denied.

This glances over the most important variable: a healthy and self-sustaining community. We can develop the best technology in the universe and still have it fail if we don't get traction, as we've seen with millions of examples throughout history. So the more people who buy = more funding for development/growth of ecosystem and a more vital community, which in the long run will make the IOTAs infinitely more useful than if they are just scarce.

So, we just paid money for becoming community members?  

Yes entrance fee to the exclusive group! Haha, no. But I think a lot people get too caught up in the numbers and fail to see the big picture. Sure owning a bigger % of something always seems the best, but if owning a big portion means that there are less people who care about the thing, then it's self-defeating. Liquidity and an active community is vital to organic growth. The IOTA community that we will run ( anyone is free to create their own, IOTA is 100% decentral ) will focus soley on growth of IOTA adoption and not discuss IOTA value from day to day at all, as that is just detrimental. Just look at nxtforum, which thread is most popular? Price speculation. When price speculation is more active than the enthusiasm in getting the project to be useful in the real world, then it's a sure sign of doom.

A good distribution is nice, but its not the main point. I participated on many crowdsales and it was nearly always, that I got less in the crowdsale, than I could have gotten, if I bought it after release. Only ethereum brought a little more, but not really compared to the price of btc at that time and it seems like it could still reach lower points.
Sadly I didn't know about NXT early enough, although it didn't have a good distribution...  But now, as it IS distributed better: decline... decline... decline

This said, the main points are technology, marketing and most important: DIRECT usefulness. I am not talking of about features. No. Every person out there asks one simple question: Where can I pay with it. If you can't answer this, just forget it. Look at bitcoin.
At the beginning it was worth a shit! 10000 BTC for a pizza... maybe a market cap of 5000 - 10000?
Why? Noone knew about it? No, maybe not enough, but more important: Noone could USE it the way it was created for. To PAY! So it was useless! Regardless community!

And now all new coins think they can start just like bitcoin. The beginning is low and it will grow from itself and the rest will come. But that doesn't work.
Because - whether you wanted or not - you started a fight against BTC.

Maybe some BTC-Holder says: This coin is nice and has awesome features, I will buy it.
But that means, he will exchange a few of his BTC into that coin. Not Fiat, no! Only BTC (or maybe some other coins that are more useless at that time)!

And he will always have more trust in BTC, because he can use it on way more places. So he will only spend a fraction of his BTC.
And wether it will go up or down (and mostly it went down). Most of those guys will sell it sooner or later, because they feel more secure with the BTC, because they can spend it.

Thats why you can only succeed, if you make your coin being accepted on many places as well.
But lets see, maybe I am completely wrong and with the next BTC-Rally everything will raise with it. But honestly I am doubting that...

[iotatoken]

A good distribution is nice, but its not the main point. I participated on many crowdsales and it was nearly always, that I got less in the crowdsale, than I could have gotten, if I bought it after release. Only ethereum brought a little more, but not really compared to the price of btc at that time and it seems like it could still reach lower points.
Sadly I didn't know about NXT early enough, although it didn't have a good distribution...  But now, as it IS distributed better: decline... decline... decline

This said, the main points are technology, marketing and most important: DIRECT usefulness. I am not talking of about features. No. Every person out there asks one simple question: Where can I pay with it. If you can't answer this, just forget it. Look at bitcoin.
At the beginning it was worth a shit! 10000 BTC for a pizza... maybe a market cap of 5000 - 10000?
Why? Noone knew about it? No, maybe not enough, but more important: Noone could USE it the way it was created for. To PAY! So it was useless! Regardless community!

And now all new coins think they can start just like bitcoin. The beginning is low and it will grow from itself and the rest will come. But that doesn't work.
Because - whether you wanted or not - you started a fight against BTC.

Maybe some BTC-Holder says: This coin is nice and has awesome features, I will buy it.
But that means, he will exchange a few of his BTC into that coin. Not Fiat, no! Only BTC (or maybe some other coins that are more useless at that time)!

And he will always have more trust in BTC, because he can use it on way more places. So he will only spend a fraction of his BTC.
And wether it will go up or down. Most of those guys will sell it sooner or later, because they feel more secure with the BTC, because they can spend it.

Thats why you can only succeed, if you make your coin being accepted on many places as well.

I agree with most of your points. But this is again directly tied to how many people got an incentive to make sure that it gets adopted in more places. For IOTA it is not meant to be used by merchants in stores. It's meant for machine-2-machine payment and real-time compensation, so the goal is to get it adopted as the standard IoT payment method. This will require several enthusiastic activists working together to achieve these goals, and in that case it is best to have a good distribution.

[lordoliver]

I agree with most of your points. But this is again directly tied to how many people got an incentive to make sure that it gets adopted in more places. For IOTA it is not meant to be used by merchants in stores. It's meant for machine-2-machine payment and real-time compensation, so the goal is to get it adopted as the standard IoT payment method. This will require several enthusiastic activists working together to achieve these goals, and in that case it is best to have a good distribution.

I am afraid those activists will be only in the founding group. If they are not active noone will be...
But maybe we are lucky and find some IOTA Antonopoulos ;-)

[rdanneskjoldr]

I know its a too vague question, just curious. Do you feel IOTA could be suitable for P2P betting?

[coldmoldy]

I agree with most of your points. But this is again directly tied to how many people got an incentive to make sure that it gets adopted in more places. For IOTA it is not meant to be used by merchants in stores. It's meant for machine-2-machine payment and real-time compensation, so the goal is to get it adopted as the standard IoT payment method. This will require several enthusiastic activists working together to achieve these goals, and in that case it is best to have a good distribution.

Although I think having a good community surrounding the project is very important, I don't think you can rely entirely on the community to promote adoption of the coin.

It looks like you'll end up raising a decent amount of funds, why not put some towards some dedicated marketing. Or even hire someone whose job is primarily sales. As in day-in day-out reaching out to the types of companies that could utilize this software and pitching them on iota.

[iotatoken]

I agree with most of your points. But this is again directly tied to how many people got an incentive to make sure that it gets adopted in more places. For IOTA it is not meant to be used by merchants in stores. It's meant for machine-2-machine payment and real-time compensation, so the goal is to get it adopted as the standard IoT payment method. This will require several enthusiastic activists working together to achieve these goals, and in that case it is best to have a good distribution.

Although I think having a good community surrounding the project is very important, I don't think you can rely entirely on the community to promote adoption of the coin.

It looks like you'll end up raising a decent amount of funds, why not put some towards some dedicated marketing. Or even hire someone whose job is primarily sales. As in day-in day-out reaching out to the types of companies that could utilize this software and pitching them on iota.

This has already been described in reasons for why we go for crowdsale. Of course we'll do our part and work hard, which is why I am saying that the IOTA community that we'll establish will exclude all speculators, as it's just a distraction from the actual goals. Speculators have 100% right to form their own community of course, but it has nothing to do with IOTA the project. The roadmap is ready for the next steps on our end.

But you can have millions of dollars ( Ethereum is a fine example ), but without a great community ( which Ethereum has established ), no amount of funds will change anything. This is just the nature of all innovation.

[AltcoinScamfinder]

I agree with most of your points. But this is again directly tied to how many people got an incentive to make sure that it gets adopted in more places. For IOTA it is not meant to be used by merchants in stores. It's meant for machine-2-machine payment and real-time compensation, so the goal is to get it adopted as the standard IoT payment method. This will require several enthusiastic activists working together to achieve these goals, and in that case it is best to have a good distribution.

Although I think having a good community surrounding the project is very important, I don't think you can rely entirely on the community to promote adoption of the coin.

It looks like you'll end up raising a decent amount of funds, why not put some towards some dedicated marketing. Or even hire someone whose job is primarily sales. As in day-in day-out reaching out to the types of companies that could utilize this software and pitching them on iota.

This has already been described in reasons for why we go for crowdsale. Of course we'll do our part and work hard, which is why I am saying that the IOTA community that we'll establish will exclude all speculators, as it's just a distraction from the actual goals. Speculators have 100% right to form their own community of course, but it has nothing to do with IOTA the project. The roadmap is ready for the next steps on our end.

But you can have millions of dollars ( Ethereum is a fine example ), but without a great community ( which Ethereum has established ), no amount of funds will change anything. This is just the nature of all innovation.

Correct. I would however argue that Ethereum is (so far) a blazing success both investment and progress wise.

[charvesp]

For anybody that knows is not Counterwallet a good one to use for this crowdsale? If I'm not mistake doesn't counterwallet use a single address for sending as long as you don't create additional addresses?

[Tobo]

I am afraid those activists will be only in the founding group. If they are not active noone will be...
But maybe we are lucky and find some IOTA Antonopoulos ;-)

On average, if you own 1% of the coins, you will feel and have 1% of responsibility. But most of the investors don't have clear vision of the coins and have no ideas about the business models which might work for the coins. They don't know what is the right direction to do their efforts to help.

If some business oriented visionaries can emerge in the future iota community, iota will have a good chance to be adopted by the real world.

[iotatoken]

I am afraid those activists will be only in the founding group. If they are not active noone will be...
But maybe we are lucky and find some IOTA Antonopoulos ;-)

On average, if you own 1% of the coins, you will feel and have 1% of responsibility. But most of the investors don't have clear vision of the coins and have no ideas about the business models which might work for the coins. They don't know what is the right direction to do their efforts to help.

If some business oriented visionaries can emerge in the future iota community, iota will have a good chance to be adopted by the real world.

Correct. This is the goal. IOTA has its roots in the crypto-space, but ultimately it is a IoT technology and its growth factor will primary be in that sector. However I know of some that are already looking into develop more 'traditional' micro-services that will use IOTA too, so I imagine it'll be overlap, but on our end we'll focus almost exclusively on the IoT part.

[iotatoken]

I know its a too vague question, just curious. Do you feel IOTA could be suitable for P2P betting?

Depends what kind of platform you're thinking of? I mean the benefits of IOTA certainly carries over.

[Empinel]

I agree with most of your points. But this is again directly tied to how many people got an incentive to make sure that it gets adopted in more places. For IOTA it is not meant to be used by merchants in stores. It's meant for machine-2-machine payment and real-time compensation, so the goal is to get it adopted as the standard IoT payment method. This will require several enthusiastic activists working together to achieve these goals, and in that case it is best to have a good distribution.

Although I think having a good community surrounding the project is very important, I don't think you can rely entirely on the community to promote adoption of the coin.

It looks like you'll end up raising a decent amount of funds, why not put some towards some dedicated marketing. Or even hire someone whose job is primarily sales. As in day-in day-out reaching out to the types of companies that could utilize this software and pitching them on iota.

This has already been described in reasons for why we go for crowdsale. Of course we'll do our part and work hard, which is why I am saying that the IOTA community that we'll establish will exclude all speculators, as it's just a distraction from the actual goals. Speculators have 100% right to form their own community of course, but it has nothing to do with IOTA the project. The roadmap is ready for the next steps on our end.

But you can have millions of dollars ( Ethereum is a fine example ), but without a great community ( which Ethereum has established ), no amount of funds will change anything. This is just the nature of all innovation.

Correct. I would however argue that Ethereum is (so far) a blazing success both investment and progress wise.

Question Much, just kidding, wish I got on the train sooner