btt

[guitarplinker]

The difficulty is killing everyone, including stocks such as bASIC. I read earlier today that any BFL device that arrives later than September 1st will be unprofitable with the current difficulty rising trend.

Unfortunately that isn't just affecting just BFL customers, it affects bASIC and all other securities or similar. I think the way they should be focusing on now, is using sites like Middlecoin, or multipool (when they implement their auto-exchange feature) and using GPU's for mining. I know they're highly in-efficient, but they can generate more profits mining than ASICs can, I never thought I'd say that, but I guess things change, aka the difficulty of bitcoin mining.

Hi guitarplink. I find this line of thinking questionable. Difficulty will go up until mining is no longer profitable for those with inefficient gear and/or high overhead. It cannot go up far beyond this point because many(most) will stop mining which will cause difficulty to fall. While the pre-order madness has created a market distorting force, it will not last forever. If you skim the forums here you will note a growing resistance to the risky pre-order model. bASIC-Mining is well capitalized and IMO well positioned to weather this storm.

We're mining with GPUs now on Middlecoin...they earn next to nothing. They're nowhere near as profitable as ASICs. This will not change in the near future.

Cheers.

Before I continue, I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just trying to understand.

If the high difficulty puts other ASIC miners out of the game, what is stopping bASIC mining from losing money by mining as well? Do they operate on very low power costs, or keep mining even when they lose money, or whats up? And when the difficulty becomes too high for ASICs to be profitable, yes people will take them offline. However at the next difficulty change there is a good possibility that the difficulty will make it profitable again, until the next difficulty change, and it will continue like that.

Like, does bASIC have a plan to combat this all?

 Hey Guitarplinker,

 Creativex has more important things to do than allay your fears.  He's not a psychologist, he's an entrepreneur with a plan!  Clearly you have not done any research before asking your questions.  Read something first so you can ask more informed questions.

Take care


 

I'd love to do more research, but I cannot find any more information on bASIC mining, do you know of a place I can go to read all about it, it's goals, and how it works?

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[xhomerx10]

The difficulty is killing everyone, including stocks such as bASIC. I read earlier today that any BFL device that arrives later than September 1st will be unprofitable with the current difficulty rising trend.

Unfortunately that isn't just affecting just BFL customers, it affects bASIC and all other securities or similar. I think the way they should be focusing on now, is using sites like Middlecoin, or multipool (when they implement their auto-exchange feature) and using GPU's for mining. I know they're highly in-efficient, but they can generate more profits mining than ASICs can, I never thought I'd say that, but I guess things change, aka the difficulty of bitcoin mining.

Hi guitarplink. I find this line of thinking questionable. Difficulty will go up until mining is no longer profitable for those with inefficient gear and/or high overhead. It cannot go up far beyond this point because many(most) will stop mining which will cause difficulty to fall. While the pre-order madness has created a market distorting force, it will not last forever. If you skim the forums here you will note a growing resistance to the risky pre-order model. bASIC-Mining is well capitalized and IMO well positioned to weather this storm.

We're mining with GPUs now on Middlecoin...they earn next to nothing. They're nowhere near as profitable as ASICs. This will not change in the near future.

Cheers.

Before I continue, I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just trying to understand.

If the high difficulty puts other ASIC miners out of the game, what is stopping bASIC mining from losing money by mining as well? Do they operate on very low power costs, or keep mining even when they lose money, or whats up? And when the difficulty becomes too high for ASICs to be profitable, yes people will take them offline. However at the next difficulty change there is a good possibility that the difficulty will make it profitable again, until the next difficulty change, and it will continue like that.

Like, does bASIC have a plan to combat this all?

 Hey Guitarplinker,

 Creativex has more important things to do than allay your fears.  He's not a psychologist, he's an entrepreneur with a plan!  Clearly you have not done any research before asking your questions.  Read something first so you can ask more informed questions.

Take care


 

I'd love to do more research, but I cannot find any more information on bASIC mining, do you know of a place I can go to read all about it, it's goals, and how it works?

 No you wouldn't.  You're line of questioning is based on your misunderstanding of the technology.
bASIC-mining's goal is to produce bitcoins and increase it's production of bitcoins.  It works by investing in the latest technology available to mine bitcoins.  It also works by having a dedicated, resourceful and genius founder.  Please stop wasting his time.

Take care

[guitarplinker]

The difficulty is killing everyone, including stocks such as bASIC. I read earlier today that any BFL device that arrives later than September 1st will be unprofitable with the current difficulty rising trend.

Unfortunately that isn't just affecting just BFL customers, it affects bASIC and all other securities or similar. I think the way they should be focusing on now, is using sites like Middlecoin, or multipool (when they implement their auto-exchange feature) and using GPU's for mining. I know they're highly in-efficient, but they can generate more profits mining than ASICs can, I never thought I'd say that, but I guess things change, aka the difficulty of bitcoin mining.

Hi guitarplink. I find this line of thinking questionable. Difficulty will go up until mining is no longer profitable for those with inefficient gear and/or high overhead. It cannot go up far beyond this point because many(most) will stop mining which will cause difficulty to fall. While the pre-order madness has created a market distorting force, it will not last forever. If you skim the forums here you will note a growing resistance to the risky pre-order model. bASIC-Mining is well capitalized and IMO well positioned to weather this storm.

We're mining with GPUs now on Middlecoin...they earn next to nothing. They're nowhere near as profitable as ASICs. This will not change in the near future.

Cheers.

Before I continue, I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just trying to understand.

If the high difficulty puts other ASIC miners out of the game, what is stopping bASIC mining from losing money by mining as well? Do they operate on very low power costs, or keep mining even when they lose money, or whats up? And when the difficulty becomes too high for ASICs to be profitable, yes people will take them offline. However at the next difficulty change there is a good possibility that the difficulty will make it profitable again, until the next difficulty change, and it will continue like that.

Like, does bASIC have a plan to combat this all?

 Hey Guitarplinker,

 Creativex has more important things to do than allay your fears.  He's not a psychologist, he's an entrepreneur with a plan!  Clearly you have not done any research before asking your questions.  Read something first so you can ask more informed questions.

Take care


 

I'd love to do more research, but I cannot find any more information on bASIC mining, do you know of a place I can go to read all about it, it's goals, and how it works?

 No you wouldn't.  You're line of questioning is based on your misunderstanding of the technology.
bASIC-mining's goal is to produce bitcoins and increase it's production of bitcoins.  It works by investing in the latest technology available to mine bitcoins.  It also works by having a dedicated, resourceful and genius founder.  Please stop wasting his time.

Take care

I'd actually like to invest in bASIC mining, I'd like to do more research on it. I want to understand how it works before I invest.

Thanks for your explanation, but I know I'll have to do my research before buying any shares. Not trying to waste Creativex's time, I'm just trying to understand. That's why I said before anything else "Before I continue, I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just trying to understand."

[dexX7]

Before I continue, I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just trying to understand.

If the high difficulty puts other ASIC miners out of the game, what is stopping bASIC mining from losing money by mining as well? Do they operate on very low power costs, or keep mining even when they lose money, or whats up? And when the difficulty becomes too high for ASICs to be profitable, yes people will take them offline. However at the next difficulty change there is a good possibility that the difficulty will make it profitable again, until the next difficulty change, and it will continue like that.

Like, does bASIC have a plan to combat this all?

I'd call creativex a conservative investor. He buys available hardware and no pre-orders and his strategy is to buy cheap enough hardware to stay profitable. Sounds simple, but that's it.

[creativex]

Thanks for your explanation, but I know I'll have to do my research before buying any shares. Not trying to waste Creativex's time, I'm just trying to understand. That's why I said before anything else "Before I continue, I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just trying to understand."

Hi guitarplinker. The best resource currently available for bASIC-Mining is this thread, this forum, & our spreadsheet. I believe if you read through the available information you'll develop a better understanding of the workings of bASIC-Mining. I have limited time this weekend, but will try to address any remaining questions you have in detail.

Cheers.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArTS7AD--9SWdDNfb0lRNElqS1k1eGRoWEw2TGM4NlE&pli=1#gid=0

[guitarplinker]

Thanks for your explanation, but I know I'll have to do my research before buying any shares. Not trying to waste Creativex's time, I'm just trying to understand. That's why I said before anything else "Before I continue, I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just trying to understand."

Hi guitarplinker. The best resource currently available for bASIC-Mining is this thread, this forum, & our spreadsheet. I believe if you read through the available information you'll develop a better understanding of the workings of bASIC-Mining. I have limited time this weekend, but will try to address any remaining questions you have in detail.

Cheers.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArTS7AD--9SWdDNfb0lRNElqS1k1eGRoWEw2TGM4NlE&pli=1#gid=0

That seems to answer all my questions, I'll take it from there. Thanks for the replies, I know you have little time but I do appreciate them. I'll definitely take a look at those items you listed.

[Twilight_Sparkle]

Difficulty will go up until mining is no longer profitable for those with inefficient gear and/or high overhead. It cannot go up far beyond this point because many(most) will stop mining which will cause difficulty to fall. \

I am curious as to the reason why people would go so far as to stop mining. As far as I know, if you actually have an asic in hand, for most people, the only expense afterwards would be electricity. As long as it makes some sort of profit after electricity costs, would'nt people continue to mine in order to minimize losses, even if they can not get back the cost of the asic?

Oh, and good job on the new equipment , and yes basic-mining can definitely "weather the storm". 

[killerstorm]

mining is no longer profitable for those with inefficient gear

As long as it makes some sort of profit after electricity costs

"Mining is no longer profitable" means that electricity costs are higher than what you get for Bitcoins it mines.

It is expected that future generations of ASIC chips will be much more energy-efficient.

[killerstorm]

Electricity costs are still by far negligible with ASICs,

We are talking about what it would be years from now.

Let's say difficulty increases 10% per week, in a year you'll have 142 difficulty increase. So if electricity costs are only 0.7% of mining revenue now, in a year they will be 100% of mining revenue, and it will be no longer profitable to mine. (Assuming Bitcoin price doesn't change.)

Now, the thing is, difficulty increases much faster than 10% per week now.

All in all, it is extremely likely we'll get there by the next reward halving.

I find it hilarious that you wrote "still" when we are at the very beginning of ASIC deployments and situation changes each week.

[killerstorm]

This is assuming difficulty continues to double as fast as it does. Well, OK, there's Moore's law and all.

This isn't related to Moore's law in any way. We simply know that a lot of ASIC mining devices are being manufactured, and many of them will be more efficient than the current generation.

Extrapolation simply gives you an idea how fast this process is.

[gimme_bottles]

is there an estimate on when the new hardware will be online?

[creativex]

Hi gimme_bottles. True to his word, evoorhees has sent me tracking information as he said he would. If all goes well we should see a modest increase in mining revenue from the new hardware on Tuesday and benefit fully from the increase on Wednesday. I will be working on running new circuits and adding a new network switch to accommodate the Avalons today or tomorrow depending on available time. I'll post an official news item upon receipt of the hardware.

Cheers. 

[xhomerx10]

This is assuming difficulty continues to double as fast as it does. Well, OK, there's Moore's law and all.

This isn't related to Moore's law in any way. We simply know that a lot of ASIC mining devices are being manufactured, and many of them will be more efficient than the current generation.

Extrapolation simply gives you an idea how fast this process is.

IMHO, It is directly related to both Moore's first and second law.  Inititally, there was more demand for FPGAs/ASICs and now there is more demand for efficiency and speed in these.  Speeds have and will double every 18 months to 2 years and price will reflect that.  Perhaps the network will even reach an equilibrium at some point - provided the concept of a digital currency can adapt.

Take care

[stslimited]

This is assuming difficulty continues to double as fast as it does. Well, OK, there's Moore's law and all.

This isn't related to Moore's law in any way. We simply know that a lot of ASIC mining devices are being manufactured, and many of them will be more efficient than the current generation.

Extrapolation simply gives you an idea how fast this process is.

IMHO, It is directly related to both Moore's first and second law.  Inititally, there was more demand for FPGAs/ASICs and now there is more demand for efficiency and speed in these.  Speeds have and will double every 18 months to 2 years and price will reflect that.  Perhaps the network will even reach an equilibrium at some point - provided the concept of a digital currency can adapt.

Take care

companies are catching up to the 28nm process (very quickly) then there are the 20-22nm processes and the upcoming 14nm processes

bitcoin might want to be $1000 before the next block reward split, because the transaction fees are still really small

[xhomerx10]

This is assuming difficulty continues to double as fast as it does. Well, OK, there's Moore's law and all.

However there are many other likely things that can happen in the future:
* finding places with cheap electricity
* having better energy sources (you could even run a 100% solar power operation, stopping the miners when you don't have your free power if it really is expensive)
* bitcoin price going up

 I have investigated the solar power aspect.  It is not cheaper than current electricity costs in my area.  In fact if you do all of the work of installing the panels yourself, buy them as a skid and don't include any batteries for storage, you're looking at $1.50 per watt (that's watt!) installed.  Not if you live near some high tension lines and have a little copper coil setup... well that would be illegal!

Take care
 

[creativex]

Three perfectly packaged batch 1 Avalons received.

[guitarplinker]

So that adds around 240GH/s to your total mining speed?

[creativex]

225 - 250gh/s yes. They need a firmware update and some cooling mods to squeeze the most out of them, but batch 1s tend to overclock very well.

Cheers.

[guitarplinker]

225 - 250gh/s yes. They need a firmware update and some cooling mods to squeeze the most out of them, but batch 1s tend to overclock very well.

Cheers.

Awesome! Any ETA of when they'll be up and fully functional?

[creativex]

225 - 250gh/s yes. They need a firmware update and some cooling mods to squeeze the most out of them, but batch 1s tend to overclock very well.

Cheers.

Awesome! Any ETA of when they'll be up and fully functional?

One hour, perhaps 90mins if there are snags. Avalons are easy to get along with. It'll take me a few days to a week to get them tuned to max performance, but they'll be up and running very soon.