ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT

[Lauda]

How about you stop discussing toilets in this thread?

Anyway guys if you don't like Satoshi's 1MB rule and like big blocks so much why don't you create an altcoin and have some central authority (e.g. you) to decide what the optimal block size should be. And while you have the central authority you can simply be the central authority who signs blocks and issues funds. Problem solved?

Oh wait you're doing an altcoin, but why do you insist on calling it Bitcoin?

If Bitcoin Classic does get activated (which I doubt) it will be very similar to the altcoin called Clams. The only difference is that they did not decide to name it "Bitcoin Clams". They are both forks of existing balances (albeit Clams is an earlier one) without consensus.

[1715340230]

1715340230

[watashi-kokoto]

How about you stop discussing toilets in this thread?

Better analogy than bridges but I agree. But there really is no interesting proposal on the table.
I suggest let's wait for Satoshi to return. Maybe if Bitcoin survives the 2020 halving we can raise blocksize in 2021

[European Central Bank]

No mention of this on r/bitcoin? Those dudes should take it one step further and directly censor the blockchain.

[bargainbin]

Anyway guys if you don't like Satoshi's 1MB rule and like big blocks <snip>

Dear toilet-hoarder:
Satoshi implemented a *temporary kludge*, which made perfect sense @teh time. Coredweebs just couldn't be arrsed to update it, because initially just lazy &, as of late financially motivated to leave it in.

Share a stall, Friend?

[franky1]

Sure, we users are paying for that block reward. Just like fiat holders are paying for fiat money that's "created out of thin air." Sure, you still have the $100 you put in a mattress 10 years ago, but now it's worth less. Same with BTC -- every newly minted coin debases the worth of your coin by 1/21-millionth.

bitcoiners dont care about the short term inflation every 10 minutes. as they see the overall deflation of every 4 years leading to an ultimate rarity of 21million..
thats why bitcoin should for economics purposes not be compared to fiat. that has no inflation control. but to gold, which miners dig out more gold every day, but know eventually it will run out and every X time they dig it. it gets harder and harder to dig.

EG. 2011 (gpu mining) was like pickaxe mining, 2012 FPGA mining was like dynamite mining. and now ASIC mining is like excavator mining. getting harder and harder to mine which makes the valuation increase, as long as there is demand.

It's irrelevant how much more or less each coin is worth. Hashpower secures the network. We're paying 25BTC every 10 minutes to secure the network now.
If BTC becomes more expensive, that only means the incentive to haxx0r it is proportionally greater, so it's pointless to denominate security in anything *but* BTC. Follow?

its irrelevant how much more or less each coin is worth?
but the first quote was talking about every newly minted coin debasing the worth of the coin...

"we" are not paying for it physically.. as there are 15,000,000 coins in circulation at a $400 average value each.. so 25btc extra is just a 0.000167% impact.
meaning on $400.. every 10 minutes a new reward can affect the value by 0.06c.

which if there wasnt demand. speculation on good news days or increase of usefulness.. the price would decline by 6cents every 10 minutes, based on the logic of inflation..
but human decision and overal knowledge of the long term scarcity and deflationary 4 year events, makes that 6cent decrease unnoticable

[davedx]

As a long term (ish) Bitcoin enthusiast I thought I'd weigh in on this thread.

It's been difficult to figure out which side to support through this trainwreck of forks, doxxing and drama, but after seeing the attitudes in this thread and on /r/bitcoin I decided to vote with my VPS for Bitcoin Classic. Censorship on Reddit, iCEBREAKER and his /b/tard insults on here, and Blockstream acting quite like Joyent did before nodejs was forked... even if Classic doesn't end up as the adopted Bitcoin, it will be worth it to let the incumbents who are obviously way too comfortable with the amount of control and power they have to know what regular Bitcoin users are thinking about them and how they are acting in very public ways. (Maybe they will start spreading stories about how even mentioning the words "Bitcoin" and "Classic" will see you end up in a supermax prison, as opposed to just being "liable" for forking a cryptocurrency... ).

So, from a regular user of Bitcoin, but non-regular participant in all of this ridiculous community drama, I tell you that *my* node at least is not a "fake classic node", I am not a spammer, scammer, or whatever. Just a regular user deeply disappointed in the attitudes of those in positions of responsibility in this community.

Cheers!

[franky1]

If Bitcoin Classic does get activated (which I doubt) it will be very similar to the altcoin called Clams. The only difference is that they did not decide to name it "Bitcoin Clams". They are both forks of existing balances (albeit Clams is an earlier one) without consensus.

orphans will rejoin chains if miners move too quickly straight after the trigger. as there isnt 100% consensus and a chance the minority can gain blockheight

then when theres more consensus then the minimum 75%.. it will be the core crew who are playing with clams as they are the minority..

this is why if there appears to a chance of it happening.. then core should just add those couple lines of code to their version and be part of bitcoin. rather then digging their head in the sand and only finding clams

after all there is nothing stopping core adding in just a few lines of code..

[Lauda]

-snip-
So, from a regular user of Bitcoin, but non-regular participant in all of this ridiculous community drama, I tell you that *my* node at least is not a "fake classic node", I am not a spammer, scammer, or whatever. Just a regular user deeply disappointed in the attitudes of those in positions of responsibility in this community.

There is no such thing as "control". Nobody can force you to accept the rules of the system. Seems like you've made a very "smart" decision, supporting a controversial HF and a implementation without a real team of developers. Even Garzik doesn't agree with the foolish grace period.

Better analogy than bridges but I agree. But there really is no interesting proposal on the table.

Let's not use that either.

[watashi-kokoto]

So, from a regular user of Bitcoin, but non-regular participant in all of this ridiculous community drama, I tell you that *my* node at least is not a "fake classic node", I am not a spammer, scammer, or whatever. Just a regular user deeply disappointed in the attitudes of those in positions of responsibility in this community.

And you came to this deeply concerned conclusion after reading the robot-upvoted posts from the vast quantity of sockpuppet of censored /r/btc?

What a shame a regular disappointed user has to read a deeply scary posts from robots on social media. But mark my words people, if you sell Bitcoin , if you betray your own self, and do this, if you blow our only chance for freedom and sell Bitcoin for a centralized altcoin or a pieces of fiat papers.

Good luck waiting on another Satoshi for many many generations.

[meono]

Frank, i must ask

Why are you still posting in this forum when most guys with any clue already left this place?

Arguing back and forth with morons is just a waste of time.

Do you believe we're still at technical debate on this issue? Its already passed that. You're just going circle and repeating the same thing because of their ignorance.

I miss the day when this forum can have technical talk, hail to the great leader!

[bargainbin]

Sure, we users are paying for that block reward. Just like fiat holders are paying for fiat money that's "created out of thin air." Sure, you still have the $100 you put in a mattress 10 years ago, but now it's worth less. Same with BTC -- every newly minted coin debases the worth of your coin by 1/21-millionth.

bitcoiners dont care about the short term inflation every 10 minutes. as they see the overall deflation of every 4 years leading to an ultimate rarity of 21million..
thats why bitcoin should for economics purposes not be compared to fiat. that has no inflation control. but to gold, which miners dig out more gold every day, but know eventually it will run out and every X time they dig it. it gets harder and harder to dig.

EG. 2011 (gpu mining) was like pickaxe mining, 2012 FPGA mining was like dynamite mining. and now ASIC mining is like excavator mining. getting harder and harder to mine which makes the valuation increase, as long as there is demand.

I don't care if "bitcoiners don't care," I care. Fiat users don't care about their fiat being debased either, which doesn't change the fact that fiat is continuously being "created out of thin air." Just like 25 BTC are mined roughly every 9 minutes.

The fact that hashpower is becoming cheaper is as irrelevant to Bitcoin security as the dollar price of BTC -- it's simultaneously becoming cheaper for the potential attacker.

It's irrelevant how much more or less each coin is worth. Hashpower secures the network. We're paying 25BTC every 10 minutes to secure the network now.
If BTC becomes more expensive, that only means the incentive to haxx0r it is proportionally greater, so it's pointless to denominate security in anything *but* BTC. Follow?

its irrelevant how much more or less each coin is worth?
but the first quote was talking about every newly minted coin debasing the worth of the coin...

"we" are not paying for it physically.. as there are 15,000,000 coins in circulation at a $400 average value each.. so 25btc extra is just a 0.000167% impact.
meaning on $400.. every 10 minutes a new reward can affect the value by 0.06c.

Yeah, just like fiat. What's your point?

which if there wasnt demand. speculation on good news days or increase of usefulness.. the price would decline by 6cents every 10 minutes, based on the logic of inflation..
but human decision and overal knowledge of the long term scarcity and deflationary 4 year events, makes that 6cent decrease unnoticable

Please. All the shitcoins (well, most, anyhow) are also based on overall scarcity. And yet... most of them are worth exactly what the name implies: shit.
Care to explain why overall scarcity didn't work out for them?

[franky1]

Please. All the shitcoins (well, most, anyhow) are also based on overall scarcity. And yet... most of them are worth exactly what the name implies: shit.
Care to explain why overall scarcity didn't work out for them?

scarcity is one thing..
but.. shitcoins were pump and dumps so while USABILITY was near zero, the supply was massive.

there are many factors that go into bitcoins valuation

pro's
more retailers
more users (circulation demand rises)
more hoarding (circulation supply falls)
4 year halfving event (200% speculative rise)
main stream media coverage(positive)

cons
retailers drop out
less users (circulation demand falls)
less hoarding and more spending (circulation supply rises)
10 minute inflations (0.000167% economic drop)
mainstream media coverage(negative)

those are just some examples.. but alot more examples can be found that all culminate in an overall valuation..
shitcoins have alot less.. maybe 1 or 2 of the list i mentioned. thus their value is far less.

[watashi-kokoto]

I miss the day when this forum can have technical talk, hail to the great leader!

Well I don't know about the others, but I'm not a real person. I'm a robot. What about you?

[franky1]

Frank, i must ask

Why are you still posting in this forum when most guys with any clue already left this place?

Arguing back and forth with morons is just a waste of time.

Do you believe we're still at technical debate on this issue? Its already passed that. You're just going circle and repeating the same thing because of their ignorance.

I miss the day when this forum can have technical talk, hail to the great leader!

because the agenda of the blockstream flock is to piss off the talent and leave only the politicians. then they win by default. so walking away is a bad thing to do, especially if you can see what would be left behind is corporate control

[franky1]

I miss the day when this forum can have technical talk, hail to the great leader!

Well I don't know about the others, but I'm not a real person. I'm a robot. What about you?

im not sure about meono. but franky1 does not have a birth certificate in that name. so franky doesnt care that babies throw their dummy at franky1. they can put their head in the sand and be left only seeing clams all they like. franky1 just doesnt want bitcoin to become incorporated, or twisted so much that average people cannot use it. because they are forced over to premined sidechains

[davedx]

So, from a regular user of Bitcoin, but non-regular participant in all of this ridiculous community drama, I tell you that *my* node at least is not a "fake classic node", I am not a spammer, scammer, or whatever. Just a regular user deeply disappointed in the attitudes of those in positions of responsibility in this community.

And you came to this deeply concerned conclusion after reading the robot-upvoted posts from the vast quantity of sockpuppet of censored /r/btc?

This is exactly the kind of absurdity I'm talking about: anybody who dares to disagree with the direction the current core developers are going are "sockpuppets", with "robot upvoted posts".

And it's /r/bitcoin that is censored. Have you ever tried to discuss alternative implementations on that subreddit?

From an outside perspective, many core supporters spend a whole lot of energy trying to demonise, smear or scare anyone who questions core's strategy.

[davedx]

-snip-
So, from a regular user of Bitcoin, but non-regular participant in all of this ridiculous community drama, I tell you that *my* node at least is not a "fake classic node", I am not a spammer, scammer, or whatever. Just a regular user deeply disappointed in the attitudes of those in positions of responsibility in this community.

There is no such thing as "control". Nobody can force you to accept the rules of the system. Seems like you've made a very "smart" decision, supporting a controversial HF and a implementation without a real team of developers. Even Garzik doesn't agree with the foolish grace period.

Is this how you talk to people who have different political views to you too, with sarcasm and scare quotes?

You must be a load of fun at parties.

[watashi-kokoto]

agenda of the blockstream  

you seriously believe this

anyway the way I see this there is maybe some agenda but in the first place it's shills on social media and so far these shills In my opinion are actually harmful to Bitcoin

second issue is that large enterprises e.g. banks could be buying up talent to inhibit innovation in the Bitcoin area but the way I see it they're a) late so they can't really destroy Bitcoin at this point, secondly they can't prevent further innovation by inhibiting devs because the community

We should be actually concerned about the scaling roadmap taking more than expected but so far I'm not really concerned, pruning is done, etc, we're moving forward ok it's slowly but it's happening.

and no, big blocks is not innovation, it's simply attack on Bitcoin.

[watashi-kokoto]

Is this how you talk to people who have different political views to you too, with sarcasm and scare quotes?

You must be a load of fun at parties.

I'm calling you out for being a shill

To the ignore we go.

[bargainbin]

Please. All the shitcoins (well, most, anyhow) are also based on overall scarcity. And yet... most of them are worth exactly what the name implies: shit.
Care to explain why overall scarcity didn't work out for them?

scarcity is one thing..
but.. shitcoins were pump and dumps so while USABILITY was near zero, the supply was massive.

Bitcoin's "USABILITY" is, objectively, near zero (if we overlook DNMs/ransomware/money laundering/illegal online gambling -- loopholes which are getting smaller as we speak).

I mean, let's be honest, who buys BTC, just to spend it at some weirdass merchant that accepts it (typiclly through a payment processor like BitPay, which converts it back into fiat, so the merchant never needs to touch it)?
Yeah, a few Bitcoin enthusiasts who, Like Rube Goldberg, like to do simple shit in the most convoluted, time-and-energy consuming way. Like Goldberg, ammusing, but would you *really* call it usability?

@watashi-kokoto: How tasty is that lead paint anyhow, that you managed to sustain yourself on it to the exclusion of everything else?