Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[tokeweed]

With Russell going to Merc although there’s no official confirmation from the team yet...  Things are going to get really interesting with them at 2022 if Hamilton doesn’t get his 8th driver championshp, breaking Schumacher’s record.    That’s going to be another hard season, competing vs Russell and at the final year of his contract.  He may extend.  Wolff is a genius.  Lol.

Next year it won't be as easy for Hamilton with Russell as it was with Bottas, I don't think Russell will be the clear number 2, basically he is being built up as Hamilton's successor, all the other big teams already have their young drivers for the future.

Even Verstappen has already talked about that he thinks Hamilton will no longer have it so easy. But will it be like Hamilton vs. Rosberg for Mercedes?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/russell-at-mercedes-would-make-things-difficult-for-hamilton-verstappen/6658797/

I’m not really sure if it’s going to be like Hamilton vs Rosberg but I’m pretty sure it’s going to make Hamilton a tad more insecure with his place in the team if he doesn’t win the driver’s championship this season.

Maybe Toto Wolff is using RBR’s formula to determine who driver no. 1 is.  Webber, Vettel.  Vettel, Ricciardo.  Ricciardo, Verstappen...  It’s survival of the fittest.

[1715601725]

1715601725

[coinlocket$]

Ferrari seems to be competitive on this track.

Results of free practice one here.

1   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m11.500s
2   Max Verstappen   NED   Red Bull Racing   1m11.597s
3   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow   1m11.601s
4   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow   1m11.623s
5   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m11.738s
6   Fernando Alonso   CHI   Alpine F1 Team   1m12.158s
7   Esteban Ocon   FRA   Alpine F1 Team   1m12.231s
8   Antonio Giovinazzi   GBR   Alfa Romeo Racing Orlen   1m12.359s
9   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team   1m12.431s
10   Pierre Gasly   FRA   Scuderia AlphaTauri Honda   1m12.515s
11   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m12.679s
12   Nicholas Latifi   CAN   Williams Racing   1m12.907s
13   Kimi Raikkonen   FIN   Alfa Romeo Racing Orlen   1m13.053s
14   Daniel Ricciardo   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m13.081s
15   George Russell   ISR   Williams Racing   1m13.181s
16   Sergio Perez   MEX   Red Bull Racing   1m13.328s
17   Nikita Mazepin   RUS   Uralkali Haas F1 Team   1m13.516s
18   Mick Schumacher   GER   Uralkali Haas F1 Team   1m13.847s
19   Sebastian Vettel   GER   Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team   1m15.984s
20   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri Honda   No Time Set


Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/986444/1/f1-2021-dutch-grand-prix-free-practice-results-1

[Pulsar77]

The results of practice rounds can be really misleading sometimes. According to the result of Practice 1, Hamilton seems to be a little faster. But the drivers don't show their 100% in these rounds. Rather than them, they choose to show their biggest effort in a qualifying session. But practice rounds give us a little idea about what might happen at least. To me, Verstappen can start from the pole position and win the race also. It's his home Grand Prix first of all. As long as he doesn't make a huge mistake, he would win this race with a nice gap.

[leea-1334]

McLaren did not even finish in top 10 today at free practice, so I lost some bets already there,,, learning my lesson not to bet on free practice:)

This is the first F1 in Netherlands in 30 years, what a history to come back there! Verstappen to use local army psychology to win sounds like a fair result for at least podium finish.

[DireWolfM14]

Maverick Vinales is already back, which I didn't expect.  I figured he'd be out until next season, but he's been practicing with Aprilia this past week and should be racing for them next weekend at Aragon.

Since Yamaha claimed he sabotaged the bike, I expected some sanctions or fines by FIM.  I haven't seen any explanation by Yamaha of what he actually did to the bike to make it malfunction, maybe they don't want to divulge the information for secrecy reasons, but those are pretty damning allegations.  Maybe we'll get the entire story some time after the season.  In all honesty, if the allegations are true, I'm surprised that any team would hire him.  He had already signed a contract with Aprilia for the 2022 season, but I'm sure there are clauses that could let them void the contract if they choose.

https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/other/vinales-says-aprilia-test-e2-80-98happiest-e2-80-99-he-e2-80-99s-ever-been-in-motogp/ar-AAO156B?ocid=BingNewsSearch

[coinlocket$]

Free practice 2 confirm a good Ferrari in this track, we already knew, in small tracks with high downforce is a big plus for them.

1   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow   1m10.902s
2   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow   1m11.056s
3   Esteban Ocon   FRA   Alpine F1 Team   1m11.074s
4   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m11.132s
5   Max Verstappen   NED   Red Bull Racing   1m11.264s
6   Fernando Alonso   CHI   Alpine F1 Team   1m11.280s
7   Pierre Gasly   FRA   Scuderia AlphaTauri Honda   1m11.462s
8   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m11.488s
9   Antonio Giovinazzi   GBR   Alfa Romeo Racing Orlen   1m11.678s
10   Sebastian Vettel   GER   Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team   1m11.713s
11   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m11.911s
12   Sergio Perez   MEX   Red Bull Racing   1m11.946s
13   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri Honda   1m12.096s
14   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team   1m12.136s
15   Daniel Ricciardo   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m12.157s
16   Kimi Raikkonen   FIN   Alfa Romeo Racing Orlen   1m12.206s
17   Mick Schumacher   GER   Uralkali Haas F1 Team   1m12.607s
18   Nicholas Latifi   CAN   Williams Racing   1m12.610s
19   Nikita Mazepin   RUS   Uralkali Haas F1 Team   1m12.835s
20   George Russell   ISR   Williams Racing   1m12.855s

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/news/986473/1/f1-2021-dutch-grand-prix-free-practice-results-2

Very tight but still, ahead.

[sana54210]

It's just that the organizers hoped until the end that the rain would finally stop and then it would be possible to hold the race, but the rain had its own opinion on this issue   It is easy to talk about the cancellation of the race from the outside, but you just need to put yourself in the place of the officials and organizers of the race, when everything is already organized and the necessary human resources and necessary equipment are involved. I'm not sure that it would be easy to organize all this on another day, because everything is scheduled for this day. Moreover, it seems that such situations are not clearly spelled out in the regulations and therefore it is necessary to prescribe everything specifically so that the organizers always have a plan B in addition to plan A.

Do you know how much Lewis Hamilton makes per race? Over 2 million dollars per race, that dude just got over 2 million dollars to follow the cars and be done with in 2 laps. I am not saying that he doesn't deserve it because he definitely does after so much championships. However that is probably one of the poorest in the whole FIA system, people who pay him are the real rich people, Mercedes is billions of dollars worth, sure Haas seems like they are poor but FIA could help them as well.

So, what do we have at the end of the day? A sports organization that makes huge amount of money that waiting one more day, making the race next day and paying for all the extra cost wouldn't make a dent in their bank account. I mean teams could afford to do that all by themselves, but also FIA could pay it all as well because that is how rich they are as well.

[tokeweed]

There are rumors swirling around that Aston Martin wants to drop Vettel and are currently in talks with Alonso to replace him.  But why?  Vettel has been out performing Stroll at almost every GP this season. 

I hope Vettel goes to Williams then.  They’re the better project going forward to 2022 and beyond anyway.

Quali results.  Hamilton is really fast in this track too.  Last quali lap was very close to Verstappen’s.  I feel like the first couple of laps in his rwce could be somewhat the same to the first couple of laps of the British GP.

2021 F1 Dutch GP Qualifying Results

1   Max Verstappen   NED   Red Bull Racing   1m10.036s   1m09.071s   1m08.885s
2   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m10.114s   1m09.726s   1m08.923s
3   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m10.219s   1m09.769s   1m09.386s
4   Pierre Gasly   FRA   Scuderia AlphaTauri Honda   1m10.274s   1m09.541s   1m09.478s
5   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow   1m09.829s   1m09.437s   1m09.527s
6   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow   1m10.022s   1m09.870s   1m09.537s
7   Antonio Giovinazzi   ITA   Alfa Romeo Racing Orlen   1m10.050s   1m10.033s   1m09.590s
8   Esteban Ocon   FRA   Alpine F1 Team   1m10.179s   1m09.919s   1m09.933s
9   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Alpine F1 Team   1m10.435s   1m10.020s   1m09.956s
10   Daniel Ricciardo   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m10.255s   1m09.865s   1m10.166s
11   George Russell   GBR   Williams Racing   1m10.382s   1m10.332s   
12   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team   1m10.438s   1m10.367s   
13   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m10.489s   1m10.406s   
14   Nicholas Latifi   CAN   Williams Racing   1m10.093s   1m11.161s   
15   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri Honda   1m10.462s   1m11.314s   
16   Sergio Perez   MEX   Red Bull Racing   1m10.530s       
17   Sebastian Vettel   GER   Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team   1m10.731s       
18   Robert Kubica   POL   Alfa Romeo Racing Orlen   1m11.301s       
19   Mick Schumacher   GER   Uralkali Haas F1 Team   1m11.387s       
20   Nikita Mazepin   RUS   Uralkali Haas F1 Team   1m11.875s       

[coinlocket$]

In the end, Hamilton managed to recover the gap but it was not enough to take the pole position.
Perez is such a mediocre driver he reminds me about Bottas.

As often happen Gasly shines in qualy, he deserved the spot in RedBull over Perez imho.

[DIA7]

In the end, Hamilton managed to recover the gap but it was not enough to take the pole position.
Perez is such a mediocre driver he reminds me about Bottas.

As often happen Gasly shines in qualy, he deserved the spot in RedBull over Perez imho.

I think that Perez was unfortunate to not get to make another lap time yeah true that he is not very good at qualifying but on Raceday he knows what he is doing and for That I think that Gasly true he is good enough to be in the Redbull car but for next season the new car and Every thing Gasly should stay at Alphatauri as it could be possible that Alphatauri car can be as good as RedBull car or better and that is going to need a leading driver and that's where Gasly will come in.
And for Albon I think that They should give him Tsunoda spot and then try to get him a seat at Williams or Alfa Romeo , By the way Giovinazzi got a very positive results today at qualifying in efforts to defend his seat for next year.

[tokeweed]

In the end, Hamilton managed to recover the gap but it was not enough to take the pole position.
Perez is such a mediocre driver he reminds me about Bottas.

As often happen Gasly shines in qualy, he deserved the spot in RedBull over Perez imho.

Bottas is at least very consistent in being Merc’s no. 2 driver and with the points accumulation at every GP.  Perez is just not reliable enough for Red Bull to get the constructor’s trophy.  And he recently signed a new contract.  Lol.  But I guess there’s a performance clause in there so that Helmut Marko can kick him out. 

[coinlocket$]

I think that Perez was unfortunate to not get to make another lap time yeah

Yep but he failed also the 1st lap doing a slow lap, If I can recall correctly for example Verstappen did only 1 lap early and skipped the second attempt.

[Jackl87]

In the end, Hamilton managed to recover the gap but it was not enough to take the pole position.
Perez is such a mediocre driver he reminds me about Bottas.

As often happen Gasly shines in qualy, he deserved the spot in RedBull over Perez imho.

I could not watch the qualifying today but i was very happy when i heard that verstappen managed to get the pole position for the race tomorrow. I also read that the mercedes has some problems with that steap curve that is pretty special and as far as i know there is only one more turn like that during the whole year, in the US grand prix. I hope that verstappen manages to win the race tomorrow so that the championship is completely open again.

[swogerino]

The Belgium Grand Prix just a few days ago looks like a distant memory and this is what it should be to all F1 fans.It was impressive to see the big crowd since Friday already and today during qualifying.Max did an awesome lap and this track looks like a beautiful one to race,last time they raced here was more than 30 years ago so for me it is the first time to see a race in this track and I am curious about it.If I were to place a bet I would bet on Fernando Alonso in top three as I am confident we will see a lot of action tomorrow and experienced drivers should be better,the odd of course is really high.

[boltz]

I can't wait for the race tomorrow and I do wonder how many Safety cars we gonna see ? I would say more than 2 if the race will be tight.

As a winner , I do think Max will manage to hold tight first corner as today in F3, arthur leclerc from 3rd position managed to climb straight into 1st position at the end of the first corner. Also, for Max there will be some flashbacks from Silverstone because the corners are kinda identical.

[coinlocket$]

I can't wait for the race tomorrow and I do wonder how many Safety cars we gonna see ? I would say more than 2 if the race will be tight.

As a winner , I do think Max will manage to hold tight first corner as today in F3, arthur leclerc from 3rd position managed to climb straight into 1st position at the end of the first corner. Also, for Max there will be some flashbacks from Silverstone because the corners are kinda identical.

Probably 0 IMHO, in the race since it will be very hard to overtake drivers will not push at their 100% because they have slower drivers ahead.
The only way of overtaking I think will be problems with the grip on high-speed turns, otherwise, it will be like Monaco.

Happy if I will be wrong about it.

[AndySt]

In the end, Hamilton managed to recover the gap but it was not enough to take the pole position.
Perez is such a mediocre driver he reminds me about Bottas.
As often happen Gasly shines in qualy, he deserved the spot in RedBull over Perez imho.

Bottas is at least very consistent in being Merc’s no. 2 driver and with the points accumulation at every GP.  Perez is just not reliable enough for Red Bull to get the constructor’s trophy.  And he recently signed a new contract.  Lol.  But I guess there’s a performance clause in there so that Helmut Marko can kick him out.  

Here, for sure, the peculiarities of Helmut Marko's character manifest themselves in all their glory, when he does not want to admit his mistakes and will continue to hold on to his opinion. I think that the change of the technical regulations can completely shake up the balance of the championship teams and other teams will also have chances in the fight for the title, so Gasli may have chances in Alpha Tauri. I think that Red Bull does not want excessive competition between their drivers, giving some priority to Verstappen and giving Perez more time to settle into the team. Which of course still looks strange, given past experience.

[Juggy777]

In the end, Hamilton managed to recover the gap but it was not enough to take the pole position.
Perez is such a mediocre driver he reminds me about Bottas.
As often happen Gasly shines in qualy, he deserved the spot in RedBull over Perez imho.

Bottas is at least very consistent in being Merc’s no. 2 driver and with the points accumulation at every GP.  Perez is just not reliable enough for Red Bull to get the constructor’s trophy.  And he recently signed a new contract.  Lol.  But I guess there’s a performance clause in there so that Helmut Marko can kick him out.  

Here, for sure, the peculiarities of Helmut Marko's character manifest themselves in all their glory, when he does not want to admit his mistakes and will continue to hold on to his opinion. I think that the change of the technical regulations can completely shake up the balance of the championship teams and other teams will also have chances in the fight for the title, so Gasli may have chances in Alpha Tauri. I think that Red Bull does not want excessive competition between their drivers, giving some priority to Verstappen and giving Perez more time to settle into the team. Which of course still looks strange, given past experience.

@AndySt it looks their strategy is clearly not working, but I feel that they’ll continue to go with this until the season ends and then hopefully they’ll get a new driver in place of Perez. Also do you’ll think that Hamilton will win or will he be at a disadvantage due to not starting from the pole position, so what are your thoughts on this.

[ILuckyGuyI]

What an awesome qualifying session it was! Verstappen managed to take the pole position by a very close gap with Hamilton.

Verstappen - 1:08.885
Hamilton - 1:08.923

It is race day and I wonder whether Verstappen will be able to win the race also. He was already the favorite for the race before the race weekend started. I also expect to see him winning. But it is hard to predict whether it will be by a big or small margin. Because Hamilton seems really fast here also.

[Koal-84]

What an awesome qualifying session it was! Verstappen managed to take the pole position by a very close gap with Hamilton.

Verstappen - 1:08.885
Hamilton - 1:08.923

It is race day and I wonder whether Verstappen will be able to win the race also. He was already the favorite for the race before the race weekend started. I also expect to see him winning. But it is hard to predict whether it will be by a big or small margin. Because Hamilton seems really fast here also.

Good position from Verstappen, I hope for a good start from him and no collision with Bottas. It's a nice and interesting track but hard to overtake. Also Alfa Romeo has a good starting position for world championship points, Alfa has definitely benefited from the 2 crashes of Williams in Q2, so no one could push the Alfa back. Will be an exciting race and I like the steep curve.