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Author Topic: [ANN] Lykke - Trade Bitcoin, Ethereum, FX and Digital Assets  (Read 144621 times)
tempus
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June 15, 2017, 08:42:26 AM
Last edit: June 15, 2017, 11:28:14 AM by tempus
 #1641

The discussion becomes a little bit hard to read, therefore...

Something like an overview about the Coinmarketcap-controversy to put things into perspective:


When Lykke was started and LKK was distributed to founders and Seed-Investors and Lykke as a company, the App was yet to release. And when it was released it didn't include the trading-section. This was about one year ago in June 2016:

"Lykke, a Swiss fintech startup building a blockchain marketplace, has released a beta version of its cryptocurrency wallet app for iOS mobile devices. Some features included in the wallet are: tracking asset prices in real time for FX, BTC and colored coins; checking balances, transaction history and blockchain details at a glance; depositing and withdrawing bitcoins via QR code with no fees; and remotely disabling access if the phone is lost or stolen."
http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/exchange/oandas-richard-olsen-launches-lykke-wallet-for-ios-devices/


During September/October 2016 there was the ICO which ended with these numbers:

"Lykke, a Swiss Fintech company building a global blockchain-powered marketplace, concluded its initial coin offering (ICO) at midnight, October 11th, with the sale of 23,226,753 coins, raising 1,161,338 CHF."
https://www.lykke.com/company/news/blockchain_powered_exchange


When Lykke was added to Coinmarketcap some time after the ICO, the number of 30 million LKK was displayed as "marketcap". If Lykke would have said: Total supply = marketcap it would have been incorrect and misleading, because while the supply in hands of seed-Investors, founders and Lykke as a company is technically not locked up, it's also not on the market like the supply of public Investors.
 
Coinmarketcap later changed it's procedure and displays "circulating supply" since. And that is connected to the trading-section. The advantage is that it's very flexible and can be an interesting indicator. If LKK is moved from private or coinprism-wallets into the trading-section the number goes up and the other way around.

But one disadvantage is of course that it doesn't necessarily correlate with the price. It is possible that a lot of LKK's are bought and the price goes up, and if the supply then is moved into private the number of "circulating supply" goes down. Since many read "circulating supply" as "marketcap" it also can lead to a distorted impression about the total value of Lykke.

What is important to understand: Coinmarketcap lists hundreds of different projects that are very different by design. The site once was designed to display Cryptocurrencies with a fixed "payout" per day (mining or staking) like Bitcoin. But others have sold a fix number in an ICO that raises over time because of the protocol. Others have put a percentage of Coins on the market while a majority of supply is held by the teams and they use it to pay for development and so on. Under the line it differs a lot what is displayed on that site and there is no way for them to find the one perfect procedure to be totally correct for all of those projects. Factom for example sold 50% of the total supply to the public while 100% is displayed as circulating supply. That is also not really correct because the supply held by Factom-Foundation is not on the market. Sometimes that is used to attack Factom as well. And in Factom's case that number even goes down because the more it is used the more Factoids are burned while there is no inflation yet (also not fully developed) - very confusing for those who don't know the project but look at the numbers.


And Lykke moves supply into the trading wallets so it will be displayed as "circulating supply". At the same time that will also not be totally correct because founders and company and also those who invested very early won't simply sell. But it will give a more precise picture of the total value of Lykke.

And just btw, one advantage will also be that Lykke will go up in that list and become more visible.


My favorite site is https://bravenewcoin.com/lykke#Trading-Pairs, because it's much more precise regarding the chart. One can move over it and it shows different pairs and the volume per Currency etc. Regarding supply they keep it simple and display Total supply * price = marketcap.


Important is also: Moving supply does not mean that it will simply be sold. Founders and company, team-members and seed-Investors have zero interest to damage the price and the valuation of Lykke. And they've always been transparent!

This document of February gives a lot of details about the company, supply and distribution:

INFORMATION BROCHURE FOR COINHOLDERS FEBRUARY 2017
https://forward.lykke.com/files/Memorandum.pdf


This blog-post of april gives a lot of informations and useful tips how to get informations and how to read the Blockchain-Explorer:

Why does Lykke Coin price go up?
https://www.lykke.com/city/blog/why_does_lykke_coin_price_go_up


This is the Asset ID:
https://blockchainexplorer.lykke.com/asset/AXkedGbAH1XGDpAypVzA5eyjegX4FaCnvM

It shows a list of Shareholders, distribution and even makes it possible to get informations about the past. One can click on the date and type in a past date and it will show how it was at that time. The number of Coinholders is 3992 right now. 30 days back it was 1834.

That's an increase of 117% in just 30 days and it's accelerating what is also an aspect why the price went up like it did.


That said: Lykke will keep on being transparent. A new financial report will be published soon. I haven't seen it yet but I have no doubt that it also will include all necessary details.
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June 15, 2017, 09:35:58 AM
Last edit: June 15, 2017, 09:55:17 AM by kadscuk
 #1642

FFS kadscuk, it says right here on coinmarketcap why they calculate the way they do: http://coinmarketcap.com/faq/

This has nothing to do with Lykke. It's coinmarketcap that's the problem. Complain to them if you have an issue with how they present their information.

The problem is that coinmarketcap uses free-float methodology for calculating markey cap. This is confusing. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freefloatmethodology.asp


The money line is this:

"We've found that Circulating Supply is a much better metric for determining the market capitalization. Coins that are locked, reserved, or not able to be sold on the public market are coins that can't affect the price and thus should not be allowed to affect the market capitalization as well. The method of using the Circulating Supply is analogous to the method of using public float for determining the market capitalization of companies in traditional investing."

Lykke is making up its own rules about market capitalisation and trying to apply them to the market. That's because Lykke isn't operating under the free market and so its valuation is bogus.

A true valuation and free market is where buyers meet sellers. Buyers set a price, and sellers set their price, and where the meeting happens between them is what sets the actual price of the token. This isn't happening with Lykke at all. People can't even set limit orders!

You can see very clearly on reddit and even on here that many people are saying the valuation is bogus - you should take that on board. Olsen has taken that on board and what's why he's moving the 90% pre-investor coins into the trading wallet.

Lykke attempting to dictate its valuation to the market has had the market pushing back. Therefore Olsen is moving towards greater transparency to try and solve the valuation issues.

Last point is..Olsen made an AGREEMENT with coinmarketcap that this is how the valuation would be done for Lykke. There is a meeting of the minds there so Olsen is complicit in this. If Olsen thought the valuation was completely wrong, he doesn't have to agree with coinmarketcap at all. He has agreed, but now he's attempting to change the valuation by moving the pre-investor coins into the trading wallet lol

Anyone who has been in crypto long enough knows this is called flooding the market. Its an attempt to game the market capitalisation by increasing the circulating supply of coins.

Its why XRP and ripple had to make an announcement that their internal XRP funds would be locked away, giving investors assurance.


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June 15, 2017, 09:48:05 AM
 #1643

How to list a coin on Lykke exchange?

Can we set up our favorite coin pairs?
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June 15, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
 #1644

During these times I love investing in Lykke. A coin with a development team that has knowledge of financial markets and uses its market making abilities to keep the price stable in terms of FIAT currency. No matter if Bitcoin or Ethereum falls.

But how to do this when Lykke gets listed on other exchanges...
tempus
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June 15, 2017, 10:38:36 AM
 #1645

FFS kadscuk, it says right here on coinmarketcap why they calculate the way they do: http://coinmarketcap.com/faq/

This has nothing to do with Lykke. It's coinmarketcap that's the problem. Complain to them if you have an issue with how they present their information.

The problem is that coinmarketcap uses free-float methodology for calculating markey cap. This is confusing. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freefloatmethodology.asp


The money line is this:

"We've found that Circulating Supply is a much better metric for determining the market capitalization. Coins that are locked, reserved, or not able to be sold on the public market are coins that can't affect the price and thus should not be allowed to affect the market capitalization as well. The method of using the Circulating Supply is analogous to the method of using public float for determining the market capitalization of companies in traditional investing."

Lykke is making up its own rules about market capitalisation and trying to apply them to the market. That's because Lykke isn't operating under the free market and so its valuation is bogus.

A true valuation and free market is where buyers meet sellers. Buyers set a price, and sellers set their price, and where the meeting happens between them is what sets the actual price of the token. This isn't happening with Lykke at all. People can't even set limit orders!

You can see very clearly on reddit and even on here that many people are saying the valuation is bogus - you should take that on board. Olsen has taken that on board and what's why he's moving the 90% pre-investor coins into the trading wallet.

Lykke attempting to dictate its valuation to the market has had the market pushing back. Therefore Olsen is moving towards greater transparency to try and solve the valuation issues.

Last point is..Olsen made an AGREEMENT with coinmarketcap that this is how the valuation would be done for Lykke. There is a meeting of the minds there so Olsen is complicit in this. If Olsen thought the valuation was completely wrong, he doesn't have to agree with coinmarketcap at all. He has agreed, but now he's attempting to change the valuation by moving the pre-investor coins into the trading wallet lol

Anyone who has been in crypto long enough knows this is called flooding the market. Its an attempt to game the market capitalisation by increasing the circulating supply of coins.

Its why XRP and ripple had to make an announcement that their internal XRP funds would be locked away, giving investors assurance.



1) We are still talking about a website that is not a Lykke-website. I personally don't even get why it has so much meaning for you.

2) That site makes "agreements" with all projects. Most likely they simply ask what might be best. And in no way it can be precise for all projects and all times.

3) It's not possible yet to set limit orders on Lykke, because Lykke is a project that is not finished yet but under development, like other projects in this space. No project is totally ready, not even the father of all: Bitcoin.

4) But Lykke also doesn't make it's own rules, it wouldn't even be possible to do that. Potential Investors make decisions to buy at a certain price or to stay away. Those who already are invested make decisions if to sell or to hold. If Lykke wouldn't care about that but set the price too high nobody would buy anymore. If Lykke would set the price too low it would be bought out and they have zero interest to sell ownership at discount.

5) Of course one can say that the valuation is too high. But that question is not that much about the status quo but about future potential. Those who believe that Lykke has the chance to become a billion-company, and I believe that, won't say that it's expensive now. Another part of the story is the context: Please show me one project that is at a valuation that couldn't be seen as overvalued at this point of time.

- Ripple is at $10 billion, only what is on the market. And XRP is not like LKK, not a share of the company. At the same time the company holds billions of it, in Dollar. It's just a bridge-currency and nobody seems to know why it needs to exist. The decision to lock up supply was made 1 month ago and years after Ripple was started in 2014.

Ripple Pledges to Lock Up $14 Billion in XRP Cryptocurrency - May 16, 2017
http://www.coindesk.com/ripple-pledges-lock-14-billion-xrp-cryptocurrency/


- Bitshares is at $796,550,979

- Monero ist at > $600 million

-  Augur is at $319,358,600 and is a smart contract

- Waves is at $502,451,000 (a decentralized exchange running on an own blockchain - that has pro's but also some con's)


...to give only a few examples. If you believe that all those projects are valued in any way objective but Lykke is not - maybe think about it.



And to say this:

"Anyone who has been in crypto long enough knows this is called flooding the market. Its an attempt to game the market capitalisation by increasing the circulating supply of coins."

...is interesting in a lot of ways:

1. How long are you in Crypto? Your account is pretty fresh (April 14, 2017). I'm long enough in this to know these kind of games. Of course you are not new. So, please let us know more about your intentions to use a newbie-account and to use a megaphone here and on reddit. There is nothing wrong to express concerns and critique, to ask questions and so on. But to attack how you do it, to confuse things intentionally, to misquote and to act so dishonest - that tells a story.


2. Moving supply that was distributed before the App even existed is not "flooding the market". If they would want that they could have done that in the past. If they would have intention to act dishonest they wouldn't speak about it openly and be that transparent as they are.

See, that is what makes me personally really angry. You try to use Richard Olsen's honesty against him and the team. They've always shown transparency, replied on all questions, they are working all the time as if they don't need any sleep. They give their best to be in touch with Investors and Users - and you are very engaged in your attempt to turn that all against them.


There is the simple fact that you've sold, right? ;-)




 
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June 15, 2017, 10:40:59 AM
 #1646

How to list a coin on Lykke exchange?

Can we set up our favorite coin pairs?

I'm not sure when they'll begin to start to add more CC's and tokens but the plan is to list all relevant Cryptocurrencies and project over time, and also to listen to the community and what is wanted of course. Maybe there will be something like a "suggestion-site" plus voting mechanism or something similar in future.
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June 15, 2017, 10:53:53 AM
 #1647

During these times I love investing in Lykke. A coin with a development team that has knowledge of financial markets and uses its market making abilities to keep the price stable in terms of FIAT currency. No matter if Bitcoin or Ethereum falls.

But how to do this when Lykke gets listed on other exchanges...


I don't believe that LKK can be totally stable. Right now it's less volatile than other tokens on Poloniex for example, but I personally expect more volatility in future and until Lykke is on a level that it becomes less speculative.

But, volatility is not bad in my opinion. If one is informed and kind of "cool" it's possible to use it.

If Lykke would have started on other exchanges I believe that it would have pumped and dumped over and over again. People call it a free market and that is not wrong, but manipulation is part of the game, especially on Poloniex. That's one reason why LKK started on Lykke. Another reason is that it leads to a better base - those who invest in LKK-shares on Lykke are likely to be real Investors who care about the project instead of being short-term-gamblers with the trollbox as only source for "informations".

That said: It is planned to get LKK on other exchanges as well. Advantage would be a more of attention and it also would avoid theories about Lykke being too dominant. But it's maybe not that easy because since LKK represents ownership it differs to Cryptocurrencies regarding the regulatory-aspect. But I believe there will be solutions for that.
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June 15, 2017, 11:53:43 AM
 #1648

Tempus literally all your points are irrelevant points and you aren't showing the investing mindset at all....I can see clearly you're thinking about this is wrong.

Sorry, but there's no point in me explaining my points to someone who isn't experienced enough

Are you actually a multi-million dollar investor or are you just working for Lykke and holding the megaphone for them, with a few LKK here and there?

Yes, I have sold and made a profit, I will be moving on now. If the lykke price drops significantly after all the valuation stuff etc is sorted, I will be buying in again, but for now I'm out.

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June 15, 2017, 12:24:14 PM
 #1649

Tempus literally all your points are irrelevant points and you aren't showing the investing mindset at all....I can see clearly you're thinking about this is wrong.

Sorry, but there's no point in me explaining my points to someone who isn't experienced enough

Are you actually a multi-million dollar investor or are you just working for Lykke and holding the megaphone for them, with a few LKK here and there?

Yes, I have sold and made a profit, I will be moving on now. If the lykke price drops significantly after all the valuation stuff etc is sorted, I will be buying in again, but for now I'm out.



1) Yes, I work for Lykke. If you would have done due diligence you could know that. I'm around here since Sept 16.


2) I won't disclose how much I've invested in Lykke or other projects. But all my Investments look good. I do this full-time since years and it's about some money.

3) If you consider me as unexperienced and yourself as experienced, please explain this:


kadscuk - Date Registered:   April 14, 2017
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=984878

tempus - Date Registered:   August 07, 2014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=363813


Show me your other/previous account/s. I would make a bet that you didn't just lose your passwords.


4) Nothing wrong about selling. That are individual decisions. But your intention to spread FUD to get the price down is a bit too obvious. You don't ask, you don't want to know how it really is. You wasn't here before to ask questions or to be critical about this topic or anything else. You show up now and not only here but also on reddit. You accuse Richard Olsen and Lykke of being intransparent, dishonest, misleading, you even try to use their openness and honesty against them.


And you say yourself:
"If the lykke price drops significantly after all the valuation stuff etc is sorted, I will be buying in again, but for now I'm out."

Why would you buy back in? You say you've lost trust, right? Will the price change that? Lykke doesn't need Investors who are cheerleader if invested and turn into trolls after selling to get a cheap entry back in. I know it's part of the Crypto-Game and always will be. But if you want to play that game I would suggest to be more subtle and less drama-queen.

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June 15, 2017, 02:21:58 PM
 #1650

FFS kadscuk, it says right here on coinmarketcap why they calculate the way they do: http://coinmarketcap.com/faq/
This has nothing to do with Lykke. It's coinmarketcap that's the problem. Complain to them if you have an issue with how they present their information.
The problem is that coinmarketcap uses free-float methodology for calculating markey cap. This is confusing. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freefloatmethodology.asp

Lykke is making up its own rules about market capitalisation and trying to apply them to the market. That's because Lykke isn't operating under the free market and so its valuation is bogus.

It's coinmarketcap that's doing the calculation. It's not Lykke. It's spelt out above, it's spelt out on their websites.

You can't be serious, I can only assume that you're trolling. You're literally refusing to read the sourced content which explains to you very clearly why it's coinmarketcap, and explains to you how and why coinmarketcap are doing what they're doing.

On keyboard, the big d, rusty shackleford
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June 15, 2017, 02:31:18 PM
 #1651

How to list a coin on Lykke exchange?

Can we set up our favorite coin pairs?

I'm not sure when they'll begin to start to add more CC's and tokens but the plan is to list all relevant Cryptocurrencies and project over time, and also to listen to the community and what is wanted of course. Maybe there will be something like a "suggestion-site" plus voting mechanism or something similar in future.

As far as I know, many exchange platform are very carefully for what crypto coins can be traded and it is not easy to add coin pairs maybe for technical reasons. IF Lykke can make some development, it will be great.

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June 15, 2017, 02:36:50 PM
 #1652

You can tell me what you want...

Again, like the last 2 times: While everything in BTC/ALT falls apart, Lykke is very steady. I am so glad that a good share of my portfolio is in LKK because I can lay back and watch the world burn while I am in safe harbor.
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June 15, 2017, 02:45:56 PM
 #1653

Tempus, sorry to say but as an employee you're proving everything I've just said...you lack the necessary experience...

Tell me you've made multi-million dollar returns on your investments (which I've made) or i'll let your silence speak for itself.

The date somebody registers on a forum isn't the date someone started investing in crypto

You are giving a biased opinion as an employee of Lykke in an attempt to save your job, so that needs to be bared in mind.

Good luck with your LKK investment...im out and I've explained my reasons why - Olsen has reduced the ROI with this move for someone like me, end of story.

I wont post on this thread again as the points have been made








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June 15, 2017, 04:43:35 PM
 #1654

I wont post on this thread again as the points have been made
 Grin

Now we can all carry on with healthy arguments instead of putting one another down.
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June 15, 2017, 05:18:32 PM
 #1655

Please do not reply to that troll anymore!
This is not helping anyone trying to understand lykke.
And i am getting tired trying to read al this >:(Just keep the positive fibe going  Cheesy

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June 15, 2017, 05:31:22 PM
 #1656

You guys are so much more polite than me!

okokokok, I'll also try to be a good guy again ;-) 
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June 15, 2017, 05:38:05 PM
 #1657

So, back to normal - Richard Olsen last week in Dhaka (Videos):


Lykke Richard Olsen Dhaka (1)

Lykke Richard Olsen Dhaka (2)

Lykke Richard Olsen Dhaka (3)

Lykke Richard Olsen Dhaka (4)




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June 15, 2017, 05:43:17 PM
 #1658

Tempus literally all your points are irrelevant points and you aren't showing the investing mindset at all....I can see clearly you're thinking about this is wrong.

Sorry, but there's no point in me explaining my points to someone who isn't experienced enough

Are you actually a multi-million dollar investor or are you just working for Lykke and holding the megaphone for them, with a few LKK here and there?

Yes, I have sold and made a profit, I will be moving on now. If the lykke price drops significantly after all the valuation stuff etc is sorted, I will be buying in again, but for now I'm out.



kadscuk, I didn't want to enter this discussion since I don't have much to add, you are free to speculate of course, but you don't know the future. In theory I would say it won't affect the price at all, it can even make Lykke more visible just like adding ETH brought a lot of new users. There's a need for these type of services and not all buy LKK. I would like to ask you, do you still use the platform/app for depositing and withdrawals? I mean I don't see any major problems here, I think you are creating a much bigger issue but I agree it's something worth discussing. Myself and others don't really see such catastrophic scenario and you are admitting yourself that you will be buying if the price decreases, so I don't really understand your point besides what tempus and you already discussed.
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June 16, 2017, 07:45:26 PM
 #1659

wrt kadscuk

There's an old saying... dont argue with fools.

The same repeated story. he is trying to pull the price down. The best thing about lykke is that it has 3500 investors only. Not many other coins can say that. The way lykke is going to run is for everyone to see.

The roadmap if achieved will value it at such a high amount that the people who have put in faith will reap big benefits.

There shall be naysayers, but the company hardly wastes its resources on forums like bitcointalk. These dont bring business I believe. These only bring in euphoria and hype. And you can see a team of people working to make the company big.

A very close friend of mine (who introduced me to lykke) his company has gotten into a deal with lykke.

I am personally very very bullish.


And guys stop arguing so much out of ego. There is one person here who does not believe. It is ok. he can keep throwing mud  Wink
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June 16, 2017, 08:22:40 PM
 #1660

wrt kadscuk

There's an old saying... dont argue with fools.

The same repeated story. he is trying to pull the price down. The best thing about lykke is that it has 3500 investors only. Not many other coins can say that. The way lykke is going to run is for everyone to see.

The roadmap if achieved will value it at such a high amount that the people who have put in faith will reap big benefits.

There shall be naysayers, but the company hardly wastes its resources on forums like bitcointalk. These dont bring business I believe. These only bring in euphoria and hype. And you can see a team of people working to make the company big.

A very close friend of mine (who introduced me to lykke) his company has gotten into a deal with lykke.

I am personally very very bullish.


And guys stop arguing so much out of ego. There is one person here who does not believe. It is ok. he can keep throwing mud  Wink

Those are very nice words and great outlook, I agree that there's a lot of potential for Lykke in the future if it keeps its steady growth. Now, please don't think forums like this are not important, core team members are not usually around to reply to every single message but they are well aware when an issue is raised or there's a good vibe or positive feedback in the community. There's a lot of activity on Slack and Reddit with users sending feedback and suggestions on how to improve the app for example.

Lykke aims to be an open company and while it's not logical or efficient for them to lose time on every single critic or comment, that doesn't mean they don't value that information and take it into consideration.
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