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Author Topic: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]  (Read 213311 times)
furuknap
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June 14, 2013, 02:35:44 PM
 #341

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To improve liquidity and prevent huge price fluctuations Pico (https://picostocks.com/users/view/23) will set now an ask order at 0.4BTC, which is above the current trading price and above the all-time-high price.
This is terrible Angry

I agree, I would have thought the issuer would have learned from last time, but apparently market manipulation is on the agenda in the foreseeable future.

We've run huge, huge risks by investing, not knowing whether the stock will crash to zero at any time. Now that it seems more likely the investors can get the reward for such a risk, the issuer or the stock exchange goes out and kills off the reward.

It's not terrible, it's a disaster. Really sad, this was such a promising venture. I'm out. Thanks for the ride, but this really kills the asset as an investment and is a serious blow to Picostocks as a platform.

.b

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furuknap
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June 14, 2013, 02:40:20 PM
 #342

i think the 0.4 BTC ask wall is a fair move. there's already more than enough unfounded speculation going on and an ask wall at 0.4BTC gives still enough headroom for profit if you're only in it to speculate with shares.

Either you have no idea how a stock market works or you're just trying to further manipulate the market. This isn't a fair move, it is a catastrophe.

I'm happy I got a good rise from my 'investment' but when I'm held back in the potential reward I can get in an open market simply because the issuer doesn't think the market knows what it's doing and want to control that, I can't be on board anymore. I'm taking my profits and walking out.

I really can't see why people would want to invest more risk into this asset as it's clear that their reward for doing so will be taken away by the exchange.

.b

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June 14, 2013, 02:46:39 PM
 #343

i think the 0.4 BTC ask wall is a fair move. there's already more than enough unfounded speculation going on and an ask wall at 0.4BTC gives still enough headroom for profit if you're only in it to speculate with shares.

Either you have no idea how a stock market works or you're just trying to further manipulate the market. This isn't a fair move, it is a catastrophe.

I'm happy I got a good rise from my 'investment' but when I'm held back in the potential reward I can get in an open market simply because the issuer doesn't think the market knows what it's doing and want to control that, I can't be on board anymore. I'm taking my profits and walking out.

I really can't see why people would want to invest more risk into this asset as it's clear that their reward for doing so will be taken away by the exchange.

.b
As I know,only China Gov does this kind of  thing. Roll Eyes

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June 14, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
 #344

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To improve liquidity and prevent huge price fluctuations Pico (https://picostocks.com/users/view/23) will set now an ask order at 0.4BTC, which is above the current trading price and above the all-time-high price.
This is terrible Angry

I'm out. Thanks for the ride, but this really kills the asset as an investment and is a serious blow to Picostocks as a platform.

.b

Me and several other people I know heard about the 100TH project thanks to furuknap's post. It echoed both on Bitcointalk and Reddit, and probably brought more than a few investors on board. Reading this is, frankly, a bit disturbing. Not to raise any alarms, but if the real reason behind Picostocks coding their own exchange is to manipulate the market (it's called free market for a reason), well, it really sucks.

Are the big shareholders OK with this? Do they actually have ANY say on this decision?

Also I assume Picostocks are going to be radically opposed to any form of 100TH passthrough asset in any of the other exchanges, since they can't be manipulated at will.
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June 14, 2013, 02:56:05 PM
 #345

Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

This is a good idea. I will report the desire to sell shares at some price 48h before I place the order.
UGH!
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June 14, 2013, 03:10:55 PM
 #346

As a result of the recent move by Picostocks and its owners, I've felt the need to update my articles on stock exchanges and 100TH.

Here's my updated warning on the "Where to buy Bitcoin and Litecoin Shares" http://coin.furuknap.net/where-to-buy-bitcoin-and-litecoin-shares/:

Quote
Update: A word of warning, though, and a clear indication of how unregulated the Bitcoin stock market is. When a certain piece of good news comes through on Picostocks, the stock exchange itself has a tendency to dump large amounts of shares in the market, preventing any reward for risk-taking on this exchange.

As such, I cannot really recommend anyone investing on Picostocks.com as you can be certain that the reward you would normally get for accepting risk will be taken away.

From the analysis of 100TH compared to ASICMiner (http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/), I've added this text:

Quote
Update: I’ve felt the need to add a very real risk on June 14 following a very strange move from the stock exchange at which 100TH trades. Please read on, and I’m sorry to say this is not as much a risk as a serious issue with an unregulated market now made manifest by Picostocks.

Market Manipulation
Picostocks, the stock exchange on which 100TH is traded, has a track record of market price manipulation whenever there are good news regarding 100TH. The price manipulation is done by dumping large amounts of shares on the market just above or even below current trading prices, preventing investors who takes huge risks from getting huge rewards from those risks.

Effectively, this kills off 100TH as an investment to me. As any experienced investor will know, you balance risk against potential reward, and usually expect a large risk to come with the potential for a large reward. With Picostocks manipulation and dumping of shares, this isn’t really the case anymore and investors only carry the risk without the potential reward.

Note: Picostocks is run by the same people that run 100TH. In fact, all the assets on Picostocks are run by the same people.

Tytus, the CEO of the operation, promised after the first dump in May to give advance notice to the market before dumping shares. However, on June 14, 2013, he broke that promise by putting up a massive dump of shares right after 100TH announced that the chips had shipped from the factory.

Of course, even when 100TH starts mining, there is no guarantee that this price manipulation will cease, so I’m sorry to say, this no longer is a viable asset to me.

This really too a turn for the absolute worst, and to be honest, I feel betrayed by Tytus and the 100TH/Picostocks team.

.b

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June 14, 2013, 03:21:29 PM
 #347

All shares on the market were paid for in BTC at the IPO, as far as I know, so if the managing team want to reap some profits from their own investment by selling the shares they've invested BTC themselves in, go ahead. They even post them at the bullish side and publish the posting.

It is already a bit overpriced, since you get only a fixed 200 Mhash/s for 0.4 BTC, while there's nothing but risks at the moment. But the herd will stampede it up and up and up, till the last suckers can only go down from the top. All welcome, I'll appreciate the coming trading volume on and attention brought to PicoStocks, as ordinary shareholder.

Anyway, good luck on the journey to the 1.0 BTC mark and the MT in exploiting the 100th mine. Sounds somewhat less exotic these days than at the start of the year.











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June 14, 2013, 03:33:36 PM
 #348

I'm sorry, I find it just disturbing: some entrepreneurs work and risk their time to build a 100th mine, they offer the public to profit of their work by investing only 0.04 BTC per 200 Mhash/s in their enterprise, the share price has subsequently almost tenfolded on nothing and what do you get as thank you: whining forum members when you sell a tiny bit of the shares you paid for yourselves.  Sad

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June 14, 2013, 03:35:07 PM
 #349

It is really sad to see Tytus being guilt manipulated like this. This is no different than any other major shareholder selling at the price they want to.
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June 14, 2013, 03:35:32 PM
 #350

furuknap and others,

I am not really understanding what you are criticizing here, maybe you can shortly enlighten me.

tytus is the issuer of this stock, but also a major shareholder. This is Bitcoin, and you do not really expect that every issuer will ask for permissions to buy or sell his own stock, are you?

I operated a mining bond on GLBSE last year, and to protect investors from fat-finger-trades I always had some bid/ask walls at some distance from the current market price. I never asked anyone for permissions to do so, and I do not get why you expect tytus to limit himself trading his stock? After all free market means free for all, so if you feel the 0.4 ask is too low, why don't you buy in? Claiming he is destroying your alleged profits sounds two-faced to me. Or am I missing something?

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June 14, 2013, 03:40:45 PM
 #351

Yeah, it's not like they are issuing new stock, they are selling their own stock which is fine by me.

I don't find it likely that it would pass 0.4 btc / share since each share is fixed at 200 MH

Counting from the next difficulty (which could be 18925290 with an increase of 20% for every other week after that) each share would generate 0.343 btc in three months if my calculations are correct.

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June 14, 2013, 04:53:07 PM
 #352

To chime in again:

1) tytus has the right to sell his shares at any price he wants. he's not issuing new shares, he's not underbidding every other stockholder, all he did was put up an ask order at a price that he found appropiate, with reasonable distance above the current market price.

2) i think it's fair in the way that without tytus' ask wall it would just end up being a race to the bottom. 0.4 BTC for 200MH of Bitfury's Chips is already steep enough (you'd get the same for a tenth of the price using one of the group buys, but hush, don't tell anyone). If the stampede sets in, well then even tytus' ask wall won't stop it and the price may move on. But for now let's try to stay civilized and not lead the sheep to the butcher just yet.

3) not trying to manipulate the market here. just trying to talk some sense into people, all this fingerlicking greed isn't going to lead us anywhere.

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June 14, 2013, 04:55:18 PM
 #353

furuknap and others,

I am not really understanding what you are criticizing here, maybe you can shortly enlighten me.

tytus is the issuer of this stock, but also a major shareholder. This is Bitcoin, and you do not really expect that every issuer will ask for permissions to buy or sell his own stock, are you?

I operated a mining bond on GLBSE last year, and to protect investors from fat-finger-trades I always had some bid/ask walls at some distance from the current market price. I never asked anyone for permissions to do so, and I do not get why you expect tytus to limit himself trading his stock? After all free market means free for all, so if you feel the 0.4 ask is too low, why don't you buy in? Claiming he is destroying your alleged profits sounds two-faced to me. Or am I missing something?


I agree with this.


Tytus selling his shares IS the free market. It's not like he issued more shares. He could have slowly leaked shares into the market...but even that could be seen as manipulating the market higher.


Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.


This is not a typical stock where the value of the stock can be maintained as long as the company is solvent. I hope every one that wants to panic buy understands that overtime the value of the security goes DOWN.


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June 14, 2013, 05:02:19 PM
 #354

To chime in again:




3) not trying to manipulate the market here. just trying to talk some sense into people, all this fingerlicking greed isn't going to lead us anywhere.

^^ This

It wasn't furuknap who posted such nonsense, it was his greed.

He probably made 100% ROI in a week or two and he wanted to make 200%.

Tytus how could you?? How could you sell stocks you bought earlier yourself at IPO price?
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June 14, 2013, 05:05:52 PM
 #355

tytus is the issuer of this stock, but also a major shareholder. This is Bitcoin, and you do not really expect that every issuer will ask for permissions to buy or sell his own stock, are you?

Same here, it's tytus shares he can make what he want with it,
he is directly associate with Pico and 100th project and when looking on his HiTech project experience, IMO he know what he is doing.

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June 14, 2013, 05:10:42 PM
 #356

What would be unfair is if he bought a bunch of shares right before good news came out or sold a bunch of shares right before bad news came out (insider trading). That is not the case here.

BTC.sx - Leveraged Bitcoin Trading. Simply use Bitcoin to take advantage of a rising or falling Bitcoin price.
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June 14, 2013, 05:28:03 PM
 #357

Honestly, i wish tytus dropped a 5000 wall at 0.1. I'd buy as much as I could.

Don't forget that it's the DIVIDENDS that are most appealing about this security.
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June 14, 2013, 05:57:14 PM
 #358

Ooops ... I was informed that You don't like the volatility limit we placed ... I will take it down immediately ... we work on the chip ... I will try to read the thread in the meantime and catch up

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June 14, 2013, 06:17:10 PM
 #359

Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

This is a good idea. I will report the desire to sell shares at some price 48h before I place the order.
UGH!

yes yes ... sorry for the order ... but we did not sell anything (!!!) You can not accuse me of market manipulation anytime we post any order.

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furuknap
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June 14, 2013, 06:31:00 PM
 #360

Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

This is a good idea. I will report the desire to sell shares at some price 48h before I place the order.
UGH!

yes yes ... sorry for the order ... but we did not sell anything (!!!) You can not accuse me of market manipulation anytime we post any order.

I'm not sure you understand the gravity of the situation, tytus. This is a serious breach of investors' trust and a massive blow to the confidence you desperately need. I can't see how investors can invest in stocks on pico anymore and knowing that when you personally feel they have been rewarded enough then you'll take away the rest.


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