Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED

[expert4knowledge]

Bitcoin is basically destroyed now with 70% of the mining controlled by China, soon to be 98+%, and with Blockstream implementing their SegWit soft fork Trojan Horse so as Matonis admits can end up increasing the 21 million coins limit.

The entire ecosystem is headed for a clusterfuck.

I honestly believe this is the truth.  What is there to add ?

~CfA~


UPDATE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14789764#msg14789764

I think they will have some mechanisms to prevent controlling and destroying means drop of price and if it happens then other people in other countries in buying bitcoin.

[RoomBot]

2016:  Year of the Bitcoin Blockchain!

[funkenstein]

From the beginning, this has always been a possibility: A banker who can effectively create unlimited fiat money can easily acquire all the mining infrastructure and control the network hash power (Of course he don't need to do so through one single entity, it will look like that many people control the mining infrastructure, but when a vote happens people will discover that over 90% of hash power is controlled by a few entity and can go against majority of people's will)

PoW method is vulnerable to large capital taking over. This is the nature of PoW, so some people have suggested to use a PoW+PoS hybrid model for the future mining, but without major hash power, how do you implement this change into the network? Why miners should give up their dominance power today? It seems only a fork or re-design of a new coin can start afresh

This is the most absurd argument ever.  People can aquire mining power, but they can't aquire coin?  Stake is easier to get ahold of than hashpower.  Just go over to the market and pick it up with your newly issued M1 tokens. 

[InternationalBankAlliance]

From the beginning, this has always been a possibility: A banker who can effectively create unlimited fiat money can easily acquire all the mining infrastructure and control the network hash power (Of course he don't need to do so through one single entity, it will look like that many people control the mining infrastructure, but when a vote happens people will discover that over 90% of hash power is controlled by a few entity and can go against majority of people's will)

PoW method is vulnerable to large capital taking over. This is the nature of PoW, so some people have suggested to use a PoW+PoS hybrid model for the future mining, but without major hash power, how do you implement this change into the network? Why miners should give up their dominance power today? It seems only a fork or re-design of a new coin can start afresh

This is the most absurd argument ever.  People can aquire mining power, but they can't aquire coin?  Stake is easier to get ahold of than hashpower.  Just go over to the market and pick it up with your newly issued M1 tokens.  

The difference being:
1. When bankster starts buying up shitcoin_X, he drives up the price shitcoin_X (he creates demand, market responds with slippage). Same can't be said for buing hashpower (i couldn't care less if a Chineese mining farm just spent a gazillion dollars on ASICs).
 
2. Mining power != owning coin. All of the mining gear in existence < Bitcoin market cap (so theoretically, it is cheaper to attack POW coin).
Conversely, owning coin = owning coin. If you snap up 90% of coin X, you can bury it, but then you're stuck with a boatload of worthless coin. The one you hurt most is yourself.

[BitcoinPC]

In my eyes its not destroyed it has its up and downs but I really do not think the bitcoin has a bad future a head and that its destroyed.
It even has a very good future a head in my eyes with all these events.

How can you say that bitcoin is destroyed. To see the fact, you much watch the current prices of bitcoins and the Market CAP . You will realize that we are again heading upto 750$ mark (where bitcoin price was last week). The market cap has come down a little from 12 billion to 10.5 billion but it has started rising also today which means we shall be seeing further improvements in the price.

[iamnotback]

Review of everything in this thread:

I think we need to try to do something in terms of investing our money in honest s/w development.

Or just stick with BTC and accept the fate of Blockstream + China, which in my opinion in another way we are being used for the objectives of those who control us.

I try to be pragmatic and set reasonable expectations for what can become of things.  I'm aware governments can attempt to co-opt BTC in different manners by trying to regulate mining facilities and all that.  Whether that would actually work or not is highly debatable being a multi-continent thing +10,000 altcoins they have to play endless whack-a-mole with and lose eventually.  This is why there's no real reason for them to even try to attack BTC in that manner.

Your conceptualization is factually incorrect w.r.t. Bitcoin. Please try to study these links:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14836040#msg14836040 (halving will increase centralized control)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14834374#msg14834374
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14817397#msg14817397 (prior specific rebuttal to r0ach)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14828552#msg14828552 (followup to r0ach)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14803606#msg14803606 (read all of sockpuppet1 posts down that page)
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49a14r/how_the_heck_are_actual_bitcoin_users_who_want_a/d0taiqa?context=3 (controlling block size Blockstream+China necessary to maximize Fees)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14810338#msg14810338
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14816704#msg14816704 (rebuttal to r0ach's commodization of ASICs non-solution)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14835570#msg14835570 (followup to r0ach)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14828344#msg14828344 (rebuttal to r0ach's free electricity from heating our homes)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14817057#msg14817057
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg15145893#msg15145893


As for playing whack-a-mole with altcoins, they only need to control the popular block chain used by the masses (Bitcoin) and businesses (Ethereum). All the rest of the altcoins will die, because nobody wants to be developing for an ecosystem or accepting tokens from that which is not mainstream. Our window of opportunity to not be enslaved is slipping away, because people like you are willing to look the other way and think incorrectly about how the elite have always insidiously taken power while the masses were asleep at the wheel.

The point is, none of those worst case scenarios are even a deal breaker to me because they still would not be worse than the system we already have.  Bitcoin isn't usury, debt, fractional reserve based, or inflationary, so no matter what "they" do to the thing, you will probably be getting some type of more sound money out of the deal.  You try to say they will "claw it all back" with 90% taxes or whatever, but that's not an inherent Bitcoin problem, that's a too big of govt problem.

Not only can centralized control over the mining do everything a fiat currency did, but worse it is a digital public ledger that tracks everything and can even turn off you ability to transact (once they add MIT's ChainAnchor).

If every 1st world nation bands together to create a North Korean, gulag system where everyone who makes over $10,000 a year is taxed for 90% using the blockchain to prove how much wealth you have, at that point you would just cash out your now much more valuable BTC,

There won't be anything non-digital to cash out to. You will tracked and controlled.

There won't be any more physical cash. Physical gold as cash will be illegal. Trading your BTC directly for land without a digital record, will be illegal.

Terrorism. Can't be allowed. Those damn terrorists will be blamed. Everything must be tracked. That is why the elite are flooding Europe with Muslims, so they can create a chaos to usher in the 666 system.

If Bitcoin accomplishes it's intended goal, you win.  If Bitcoin is somehow co-opted by a world government, you're now front running the government and still win with 10,000x more resources to attempt to accomplish whatever it is you wanted to do before.  Bitcoin never shipped with a label that says "100% guaranteed to prevent an authoritarian world government from forming that will kill everyone".

r0ach it is sad that you'd prefer a happy delusion than the depressing reality we face. Because then maybe you would stop fucking around and get serious and fight. Come on man. Fight. Don't be a wimp.

[kiko333]

The mainly risk is due to the geographical and goverment situation. What could it happen if the China Goverment decide to close the routers. Bitcoin would loose the miner capacity so that will be impossible to mantein the rate of 10 minutes per block.

The current situation is of height risk for bitcoin, from my modest point of view.

Cheers

[Hueristic]

The mainly risk is due to the geographical and goverment situation. What could it happen if the China Goverment decide to close the routers. Bitcoin would loose the miner capacity so that will be impossible to mantein the rate of 10 minutes per block.

The current situation is of height risk for bitcoin, from my modest point of view.

Cheers

I find it interesting that the BTC pump was orchestrated right after KNC folded. The chinese being short sighted put profit in front of security of their assets. I believe you are correct in the chinese government now having the power to kill BTC.

[takingthis4]

Bitcoin is destroyed because China owns it?
Does it matter if most miners are in the USA or now China?

How long ago was there mass panic related to China banning Bitcoin use/mining/exchanges?
~2.5 or 3 years ago?
Now "Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED", since China is successfully participating?
My how times have changed...

bitcoin is not destroyed and none of such events can destroy it because in my opinion bitcoin is invincible as people will always use it more or less from time to time

i think it is easier to destroy humanity than bitcoins, as long as there are people and internet bitcoin will definitely be used by some of the people because its perfect currency

[Maesters1-]

Bitcoin is destroyed because China owns it?
Does it matter if most miners are in the USA or now China?

How long ago was there mass panic related to China banning Bitcoin use/mining/exchanges?
~2.5 or 3 years ago?
Now "Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED", since China is successfully participating?
My how times have changed...

bitcoin is not destroyed and none of such events can destroy it because in my opinion bitcoin is invincible as people will always use it more or less from time to time

i think it is easier to destroy humanity than bitcoins, as long as there are people and internet bitcoin will definitely be used by some of the people because its perfect currency

wow interesting. it make you so angry. God my not destroy the humanity. but i think bitocin is to stable and is going to stable its positoin more and more that we even dont think that a time will come when it will destroy. you can see the progress of bitcoin it is always on upward. people are entering in the world of bitocin and they are investing their money hener. i personally know so many people here in my area who are invest their whole flat money in bitoci. i have a very closed friend who sold their property some housed and shops just for the purpose of to invest in bitcoin.

[Moneroman88]

Bitcoin's mining may be centralized due to the Chinese mining monopol. But fear not, you're always welcome to switch to Monero.

[quentincole32]

I don't think so, bitcoin is growing up and if in mining you mean there are some companies outside of china that mining bitcoin.

you might right,but leets see how china take control on some exchange,and big farm on china have biggest bitcoin mining,we can't deny that china have better power consumption and can handle any problem related miner,and also their exchange have better price than coinbase or itbit.

[chaser15]

I don't think so, bitcoin is growing up and if in mining you mean there are some companies outside of china that mining bitcoin.

you might right,but leets see how china take control on some exchange,and big farm on china have biggest bitcoin mining,we can't deny that china have better power consumption and can handle any problem related miner,and also their exchange have better price than coinbase or itbit.

No doubt that China have some big whales and manipulators. They are the one who is starting the price rally starting from their exchanges. If succeeds it will now be dragged to other exchanges and the result? Price rally.

[quake313]

If one was to believe Chinese trading volume and mining share, one might conclude Bitcoin could be in trouble. However, this situation could change in the future. Bitcoin is not yet destroyed or invulnerable/untouchable. It is just too soon to have any realistic speculation on Bitcoin's future. Personally, I feel good about the short term and long term prospects but I been around since 2013 and have lived through the ups and downs since then.

[boyptc]

Bitcoin's mining may be centralized due to the Chinese mining monopol. But fear not, you're always welcome to switch to Monero.

Well you are right, but still they can't control and destroy bitcoin with that kind of act. Yes, they have the majority of miners.
But they don't have the majority of users.

[groll]

Bitcoin is basically destroyed now with 70% of the mining controlled by China, soon to be 98+%, and with Blockstream implementing their SegWit soft fork Trojan Horse so as Matonis admits can end up increasing the 21 million coins limit.

The entire ecosystem is headed for a clusterfuck.

I honestly believe this is the truth.  What is there to add ?

~CfA~


UPDATE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14789764#msg14789764

I dont believe that it is the case. Even though  many bitcoin mining farm are established in China due to low labor and power expense the owners and stockholders are not 100% chinese. So that is to say that CHina has no 100% control over bitcoin mining industry. As of now there are new mining farm who uses alternative power source in other countries and not only in China.

[tabas]

I don't think so, bitcoin is growing up and if in mining you mean there are some companies outside of china that mining bitcoin.

you might right,but leets see how china take control on some exchange,and big farm on china have biggest bitcoin mining,we can't deny that china have better power consumption and can handle any problem related miner,and also their exchange have better price than coinbase or itbit.

No doubt that China have some big whales and manipulators. They are the one who is starting the price rally starting from their exchanges. If succeeds it will now be dragged to other exchanges and the result? Price rally.

China is always been greedy when it comes to something that they can get profit. Like reverse engineering of original products. And now they are trying to manipulate bitcoin with by their mining power.
Because most of miners are they.

[Anon_7716]

If one was to believe Chinese trading volume and mining share, one might conclude Bitcoin could be in trouble. However, this situation could change in the future. Bitcoin is not yet destroyed or invulnerable/untouchable. It is just too soon to have any realistic speculation on Bitcoin's future. Personally, I feel good about the short term and long term prospects but I been around since 2013 and have lived through the ups and downs since then.

true, there's not a thing that is impossible in the future about the bitcoin is going to be a very popular currency and is used by most people, because the controller does not have the Bitcoin in each system, the price is likely to depend on mining and Limited. Jik limited bitcoin is up, the price will experience increased bitcoin is very high, because the number of the world's population with Bitcoin who use the internet are very different

[Naughtis]

I don't think so, bitcoin is growing up and if in mining you mean there are some companies outside of china that mining bitcoin.

you might right,but leets see how china take control on some exchange,and big farm on china have biggest bitcoin mining,we can't deny that china have better power consumption and can handle any problem related miner,and also their exchange have better price than coinbase or itbit.

Farms are big in China and as well as mining sites. But the thing is I don't know if they are really controlling the price of bitcoin or they can control or predict that is going to happen with bitcoin.
Because we all know that if something has in favor of majority then they can control it.

The Chinese are controlling about 70% of the mining at the moment. But their proportion has been reducing.

[Cresciuanto]

I don't think so, bitcoin is growing up and if in mining you mean there are some companies outside of china that mining bitcoin.

you might right,but leets see how china take control on some exchange,and big farm on china have biggest bitcoin mining,we can't deny that china have better power consumption and can handle any problem related miner,and also their exchange have better price than coinbase or itbit.

Farms are big in China and as well as mining sites. But the thing is I don't know if they are really controlling the price of bitcoin or they can control or predict that is going to happen with bitcoin.
Because we all know that if something has in favor of majority then they can control it.

The Chinese are controlling about 70% of the mining at the moment. But their proportion has been reducing.

i don't think so that Chinese are holding bitoicn and they have 70% hold of bitocin. i think it is not easy to tell the right figure of the number of the bitcoin user.