Steemit how can this thing be workable long term?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Got to game that steem power, brah. I hear ya.

This thread is like a case study in how the crypto community is full of folks who want to take a position and argue without understanding the subject matter.

Steem powered social media is the future, everyone can see that. It's the new Voat. Takin' the world by the storm horns, totally unique...

troloolllo I can't be bothered. 

[1714809709]

1714809709

[1714809709]

1714809709

[bacchist]

This thread is like a case study in how the crypto community is full of folks who want to take a position and argue without understanding the subject matter.

[iamnotback]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

It means that well over 90% of the Steem in existence is not currently liquid. Though there is additional liquidity in the form of SBD (Steem Dollars), which are backed by one USD of Steem.

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

[bacchist]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

Git withit, man!
You turn yer steem into steam power. To empower the future of the interweb!
gg

No I think they cash out their payouts and are forced to hold 50% in SP. I doubt anyone is converting STEEM to SP.

A lot of the criticism in this thread assumes that the majority of users will think like speculators or day traders...

In any case, it doesn't matter if they don't learn how to game their SP, those who are learning to game the SP voting are the ones who drive the quality of the content curation to shit. Those who learn to be economically relevant have the most impact.

The holders of SP have a strong economic incentive to ensure that the content is of a high quality. If you own enough SP to make significant amounts from voting, and influence the reward of posts, you have more to lose by the site turning to shit than you stand to gain by "voting perfectly."

[iamnotback]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

Git withit, man!
You turn yer steem into steam power. To empower the future of the interweb!
gg

No I think they cash out their payouts and are forced to hold 50% in SP. I doubt anyone is converting STEEM to SP.

A lot of the criticism in this thread assumes that the majority of users will think like speculators or day traders...

In any case, it doesn't matter if they don't learn how to game their SP, those who are learning to game the SP voting are the ones who drive the quality of the content curation to shit. Those who learn to be economically relevant have the most impact.

The holders of SP have a strong economic incentive to ensure that the content is of a high quality. If you own enough SP to make significant amounts from voting, and influence the reward of posts, you have more to lose by the site turning to shit than you stand to gain by "voting perfectly."

People are motivated by their own balance. They can't control the site wide outcome. They will try to vote for the blog posts that have the most votes so they earn the most curation rewards, which is the winning game theory strategy. Dufus.

Money talks. Over time users will discuss and learn how to maximize their curation rewards. Humans are like that. We have big brains. And we are self-interested.

This thread is like a case study in how the crypto community is full of folks who want to take a position and argue without understanding the subject matter.

Pompous ass. We (collectively as a community) may know more than you. Don't assume. Discuss.

[bacchist]

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but none of what you just said has any basis in reality.

9 SP are created for every 1 Steem created.

Please do your homework before making outlandish claims about pyramid schemes.

[magicalacademy]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

There are no 'SP tokens' it is a virtual unit that is derived by multiplying the number of VESTS tokens (largely a hidden token in the system from the perspective of end users) by the exchange rate. When the reverse split happens the exchange rate will be reduced by a factor of 10 to compensate. Nothing will change about SP ownership except the position of the decimal. 1 Steem will still be convertible to 1 SP (and vice versa, allowing for the two-year delay).

I need clarification here.

If SP tokens are steem tokens why are they not also being reduced 10:1 ?  Say after 32 000 000 blocks 5b steem were created. Out of those 5b steem 4b are held as SP tokens and 1b are held as steem token.
If you only reduce steem tokens then you would burn 9/10 of 1b. There would still be 4b steem tokens in circulation held in SP tokens.
Now if you burn all the tokens as mentionned in the whitepaper ( 5b of them) you also need to burn the SP tokens..

[iamnotback]

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but none of what you just said has any basis in reality.

9 SP are created for every 1 Steem created.

Please do your homework before making outlandish claims about pyramid schemes.

Indeed on the bolded. Did you not read what I wrote:

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

You do your homework too pompous ass. Which means read what people write before you accuse them.

Sorry if you are offended by the FACT that Dan created a pyramid scheme.

[bacchist]

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but none of what you just said has any basis in reality.

9 SP are created for every 1 Steem created.

Please do your homework before making outlandish claims about pyramid schemes.

Indeed on the bolded. Did you not read what I wrote:

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

You bolded the fact that disproves the premise of your post...

[iamnotback]

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but none of what you just said has any basis in reality.

9 SP are created for every 1 Steem created.

Please do your homework before making outlandish claims about pyramid schemes.

Indeed on the bolded. Did you not read what I wrote:

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

You bolded the fact that disproves the premise of your post...

You don't understand my post. Just try to explain what you think was disproven, then I will explain your myopia. Apparently you lack math skills.

Just do the math and assume no one converts STEEM to SP. Only 3.875% per year of STEEM will be converted to SP. Multiplied by 9. It is less than 50%. Everyone is trying to cash out all their SP over the 2 year sliding window. Well perhaps I miscalculated because of the 2 year window is it closer to 0.3875*9*9.

But it still means you have 1% of the marketcap coming up for sale every week. 1% of the marketcap as float I think is reasonably high. The current daily volume is apparently in that approximate range.

And that doesn't change the point that you who ever is still holding SP is learning to game the voting to maximize their curator rewards. That appears to be a Tragedy of the Commons, because they all end up voting together like one mind in a monkey-see-monkey-copy groupthink.

You argue that people will be disinterested in their curator rewards and instead vote their conscience or the long-term benefit of the site. I would rather think they would not bother to vote then, which was my point to smooth that people will grow weary of curating if the payout is not significant for doing so.

My point about SP versus STEEM is about the pressure is on the sell side. That SP become a larger % of the marketcap via relative debasement, means also more of the marketcap is for weekly cashing out. You don't have a mix of people who invested willing for long-term. They are imprisoned for 2 years and forced to either game the curator rewards or just become passive and wait out their 104 weeks.

It don't see how the incentives are aligned to incentivize people to invest in it. It is all about extracting from it. There is no benefit to any long-term valuation investment.

[magicalacademy]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

It means that well over 90% of the Steem in existence is not currently liquid. Though there is additional liquidity in the form of SBD (Steem Dollars), which are backed by one USD of Steem.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

Lol +1

[bacchist]

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but none of what you just said has any basis in reality.

9 SP are created for every 1 Steem created.

Please do your homework before making outlandish claims about pyramid schemes.

Indeed on the bolded. Did you not read what I wrote:

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

You bolded the fact that disproves the premise of your post...

You don't understand my post. Just try to explain what you think was disproven, then I will explain your myopia.

SP is created alongside STEEM at a ratio of 9:1.

You said if nobody is converting to SP, it will all be STEEM.

90% is bigger than 10%.

90% of the money supply is created as SP. 10% is created as STEEM.

More SP is created than STEEM.

Get it?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

https://steemit.com/girlsgonesteem-nsfw/@tuck-fheman/share-your-ass-and-earn-rewards
Lookit. It's simple. Share your ass and win a reward. This^ is what you big brains in the maths department will never understand.

[magicalacademy]

Bacchist has a stake, just checked his wallet ROFL not a big one tho

Just a bit more context in the debate.

[bones261]

https://steemit.com/girlsgonesteem-nsfw/@tuck-fheman/share-your-ass-and-earn-rewards
Lookit. It's simple. Share your ass and win a reward. This^ is what you big brains in the maths department will never understand.

I'm afraid that the three posts in response to this didn't even clear $200.00. They would have been better off trying to sell their services on Craig's list.

[smooth]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

There are no 'SP tokens' it is a virtual unit that is derived by multiplying the number of VESTS tokens (largely a hidden token in the system from the perspective of end users) by the exchange rate. When the reverse split happens the exchange rate will be reduced by a factor of 10 to compensate. Nothing will change about SP ownership except the position of the decimal. 1 Steem will still be convertible to 1 SP (and vice versa, allowing for the two-year delay).

I need clarification here.

If SP tokens are steem tokens why are they not also being reduced 10:1 ?  Say after 32 000 000 blocks 5b steem were created. Out of those 5b steem 4b are held as SP tokens and 1b are held as steem token.
If you only reduce steem tokens then you would burn 9/10 of 1b. There would still be 4b steem tokens in circulation held in SP tokens.
Now if you burn all the tokens as mentionned in the whitepaper ( 5b of them) you also need to burn the SP tokens..

SP will observe the same reverse stock split as Steem.

You keep mentioning SP tokens, but that is confused. No such token exists. Your SP balance is the product of your VESTS tokens times the exchange rate. When 90% of the Steem in the vesting fund is destroyed, the exchange rate will adjust accordingly, and so will your SP.

[magicalacademy]

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but none of what you just said has any basis in reality.

9 SP are created for every 1 Steem created.

Please do your homework before making outlandish claims about pyramid schemes.

Indeed on the bolded. Did you not read what I wrote:

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

You bolded the fact that disproves the premise of your post...

You don't understand my post. Just try to explain what you think was disproven, then I will explain your myopia.

SP is created alongside STEEM at a ratio of 9:1.

You said if nobody is converting to SP, it will all be STEEM.

90% is bigger than 10%.

90% of the money supply is created as SP. 10% is created as STEEM.

More SP is created than STEEM.

Get it?

SP tokens are locked steem tokens, why do you say that they are seperately created?  The 9 extra SP comes from the 100% steem token inflation, there is only one token that is being created which is steem. They are distributed in SP form so they can't be spent asap but they are steem tokens.

[iamnotback]

I need to head out to gym. Note I added to this post...

You don't understand my post. Just try to explain what you think was disproven, then I will explain your myopia. Apparently you lack math skills.

Just do the math and assume no one converts STEEM to SP. Only 3.875% per year of STEEM will be converted to SP. Multiplied by 9. It is less than 50%. Everyone is trying to cash out all their SP over the 2 year sliding window. Well perhaps I miscalculated because of the 2 year window is it closer to 0.3875*9*9.

But it still means you have 1% of the marketcap coming up for sale every week. 1% of the marketcap as float I think is reasonably high. The current daily volume is apparently in that approximate range.

And that doesn't change the point that you who ever is still holding SP is learning to game the voting to maximize their curator rewards. That appears to be a Tragedy of the Commons, because they all end up voting together like one mind in a monkey-see-monkey-copy groupthink.

You argue that people will be disinterested in their curator rewards and instead vote their conscience or the long-term benefit of the site. I would rather think they would not bother to vote then, which was my point to smooth that people will grow weary of curating if the payout is not significant for doing so.

My point about SP versus STEEM is about the pressure is on the sell side. That SP become a larger % of the marketcap via relative debasement, means also more of the marketcap is for weekly cashing out. You don't have a mix of people who invested willingly for long-term. They are imprisoned for 2 years and forced to either game the curator rewards or just become passive and wait out their 104 weeks.

It don't see how the incentives are aligned to incentivize people to invest in it. It is all about extracting from it. There is no benefit to any long-term valuation investment.

Bottom line is you don't bind people in futures contracts if you want people to invest in something freely. When you create time locked bindings, you create bad effects ALWAYS.

The reason is because the system can't anneal in real-time. People view this as additional risk and thus avoid investing. Thus they can only view it for extraction, as a freebie they can parasite on. Not something to invest in.

[chryspano]

But that means that every week 1% of the SP is liquid for selling. If no one is converting to SP, then eventually it will all become STEEM which is debased 100% per annum and the curation will be dominated by the few remaining with SP.

It also appears to be a constant selling pressure juxtaposed against any speculation demand for STEEM. Analogous to miners divest BTC.

I see your point that the amount of STEEM available is only 10% of marketcap right now. So that can be another factor for price moving up so much.

Dan planned out the math of this pyramid scheme well. It is a front loaded pump with a long-tail die off.

What IF....  10% os STEEM continues to be liquid?
What IF.... almost 100% of STEEM is POWERED UP?
What IF.... some IF's help us more in our FUDing attemps than others?

What IF... You are making too many mistakes?(you are obviously in hurry here)
What IF.... you are here just fuding and talking BS most of the time?
What IF.... FUDing pays much more than actually coding? (the suposedly next gen, revolutionary crypto that solves "all the problems")*cough* *cough*
What IF.... you have no intention at all to do anything else than FUD every crypto under the sun and you are just bullshiting us about "your solution"?

I'm just thinking out loudly...
Something is really fishy here about you dude...

[magicalacademy]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

There are no 'SP tokens' it is a virtual unit that is derived by multiplying the number of VESTS tokens (largely a hidden token in the system from the perspective of end users) by the exchange rate. When the reverse split happens the exchange rate will be reduced by a factor of 10 to compensate. Nothing will change about SP ownership except the position of the decimal. 1 Steem will still be convertible to 1 SP (and vice versa, allowing for the two-year delay).

I need clarification here.

If SP tokens are steem tokens why are they not also being reduced 10:1 ?  Say after 32 000 000 blocks 5b steem were created. Out of those 5b steem 4b are held as SP tokens and 1b are held as steem token.
If you only reduce steem tokens then you would burn 9/10 of 1b. There would still be 4b steem tokens in circulation held in SP tokens.
Now if you burn all the tokens as mentionned in the whitepaper ( 5b of them) you also need to burn the SP tokens..

SP will observe the same reverse stock split as Steem.

You keep mentioning SP tokens, but that is confused. No such token exists. Your SP balance is the product of your VESTS tokens times the exchange rate. When 90% of the Steem in the vesting fund is destroyed, the exchange rate will adjust accordingly, and so will your SP.

How do you know that the exchange rate will adjust accordingly ? It may not, markets don't always act rational, even more so when everyone are told that 9/10 of their wealth will be wiped out