Steemit how can this thing be workable long term?

[iamnotback]

Nonsense in the Steem whitepaper:

The Problem With Fees

The solution adopted by most blockchains thus far is to charge a minimum transaction fee. A fee worth just a few cents is enough to make attacking the network expensive and unprofitable. While this approach solves the spam problem, it introduces new problems. Imagine solving the email spam problem by introducing a small fee on every email; people wouldn’t use email.

Email isn't a monetary transaction. Therefor a fee on a non-monetary transaction would of course introduce an extra hassle. But a small fee taken automatically from a monetary transaction is not analogous to the email example.

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[CoinHoarder]

Let's agree to disagree. I think it could work if done properly. A majority of Steem's usership (and a super majority society) could give two shits about things like decentralization or what consensus algorithm is used.

Yes, I can confirm you are right about Dan's long term plan. He gave an overview of the business model about a week ago: https://steemit.com/steem/@dan/steemit-s-evil-plan-for-cryptocurrency-world-domination

[chryspano]

Nonsense in the Steem whitepaper:

The Problem With Fees

The solution adopted by most blockchains thus far is to charge a minimum transaction fee. A fee worth just a few cents is enough to make attacking the network expensive and unprofitable. While this approach solves the spam problem, it introduces new problems. Imagine solving the email spam problem by introducing a small fee on every email; people wouldn’t use email.

Email isn't a monetary transaction. Therefor a fee on a non-monetary transaction would of course introduce an extra hassle. But a small fee taken automatically from a monetary transaction is not analogous to the email example.

Out of context but please go on...  

[iamnotback]

Let's agree to disagree. I think it could work if done properly. A majority of Steem's usership (and a super majority society) could give two shits about things like decentralization or what consensus algorithm is used.

Yes, I can confirm you are right about Dan's long term plan. He gave an overview of the business model about a week ago: https://steemit.com/steem/@dan/steemit-s-evil-plan-for-cryptocurrency-world-domination

His plan can't possibly work. Zero chance.

The reason is because users will always have 99% more things they want to buy that are not available in the marketplace, thus they will cash 99% out to fiat and Bitcoin. This is a fundamental economic principle and the fact that Dan got this wrong is very indicative that he is an economics idiot.

Go ask your economics professor to explain why and he will confirm what I've told you.

I'll explain by example. Let's say you do sell ladies pantyhose on the Steem marketplace, but my gf always orders from Amazon and she doesn't want to risk a new shipping arrangement given she is confident and comfortable with Amazon. You see you can't rebuild the world in one small microcasm. That is why I said you can't attach the token to the social network and marketplace. The token should float as a separate project which many ecosystem developments can build on from many different groups, e.g. Bitcoin's model.

Sorry I am 100% sure this will fail. My popcorn is ready.

It is hilarious to watch all of you bagholders putting your money into Steem Power locked up for 2 years. But any way, you told me you are only doing this with your play money. But the others might be putting their serious quantities of money into Steam Power because they're uneducated n00bs who never got a near perfect examination grades in Economics 101 as I did as a freshman at the university 33 years ago.

P.S. the only way to make a CC popular is to make it for spending on something that has no existing market. Which is precisely my plan. I have the winning plan. My project will race past all these failed designs. And no one else can compete (not even Dan), because they don't have the technology available.

Out of context but please go on...  

Keep trying to hide the truth. You are doing a marvellous job.

And now that you boys have been schooled by an older more experienced and more knowledgeable man, you can start to appreciate and respect your elders. It seems your generation has become very "I know everything" even when you don't. When I was in my 20s, I listened intently to people who I sensed were smart or had more knowledge than me. I still do. I find when I communicate in this forum, you young kids always think you know everything and I try to teach you something and you don't even try to learn. You just reply with some flippant nonsense showing that you aren't even grasping the point.

[CoinHoarder]

Firstly, a marketplace is just one example of profitable ventures Steem can leverage. There is also paid advertising, gaming, gambling, mutual aid societies, web hosting, decentralized exchange (Cryptos and stock/commodity derivatives, etc), among others.

Secondly, you can't be sure that 99% of things people will want to buy will not be sold on the marketplace. Merchants hooking up with drop shippers could cover much more than 1%.

Thirdly, it will be much more convenient for the Steem market place to purchase things with SD in a Steem marketplace, and they would probably pay a small premium to do so. Exchanging SD to STEEM to Bitcoin can be inconvenient, and the fees involved may make up for the premium on the cost of the products or services.

Fourthly, confidence is built overtime. Amazon and Ebay did not start off with their loyal user base from the get go. It is not a stretch to say confidence can be obtained over time.

[chryspano]

Out of context but please go on...  

Keep trying to hide the truth. You are doing a marvellous job.

So you are thruth's champion, eh? 

I trully misunderstood your motives! 

Ok, I'm leaving this thread alone...

[iamnotback]

Another braindead design from the Steem whitepaper:

Bandwidth Instead of Micropayment Channels

In our estimate it should be sufficient to measure the average weekly bandwidth usage of users. Every time a user signs a transaction, that transaction is factored into their own individual moving average. Any time a user’s moving average exceeds the current network limit their transaction is delayed until their average falls below the limit.

So users can't do rapid succession of transactions. An entire use case has been eliminated because of Dan's incorrect logic about transaction fees.

He'll learn from my white paper when it is published. I am not going to tell him now as he would copy me.

[magicalacademy]

Another braindead design from the Steem whitepaper:

Bandwidth Instead of Micropayment Channels

In our estimate it should be sufficient to measure the average weekly bandwidth usage of users. Every time a user signs a transaction, that transaction is factored into their own individual moving average. Any time a user’s moving average exceeds the current network limit their transaction is delayed until their average falls below the limit.

So users can't do rapid succession of transactions. An entire use case has been eliminated because of Dan's incorrect logic about transaction fees.

He'll learn from my white paper when it is published. I am not going to tell him now as he would copy me.

What is your project roughly?

[iamnotback]

Firstly, a marketplace is just one example of profitable ventures Steem can leverage. There is also paid advertising, gaming, gambling, mutual aid societies, web hosting, decentralized exchange (Cryptos and stock/commodity derivatives, etc), among others.

Dan has failed miserably at DEX so far to understand that people don't like change (most stick with the centralized exchanges). Everything he has done has failed to gain adoption. So now he got desperate and decided to give away money, which of course is popular. But he still hasn't proven he can create an income stream business model. Afaics, he has only shown he can deceive (with the improbable high payouts dangled in front of their faces) and bribe bloggers.

Secondly, you can't be sure that 99% of things people will want to buy will not be sold on the marketplace. Merchants hooking up with drop shippers could cover much more than 1%.

Try to get out and think about relative size. There are 6 billion people. Do you think you can put even what 600 million of them want and how they want it in your marketplace. How can you put paying their rent and buying gas in your market place.

Even you only have a million users, your diversity of wants will be the cross-section of the 6 billion.

Thirdly, it will be much more convenient for the Steem market place to purchase things with SD in a Steem marketplace, and they would probably pay a small premium to do so. Exchanging SD to STEEM to Bitcoin can be inconvenient, and the fees involved may make up for the premium on the cost of the products or services.

I think it will be more hassle for them to try a new marketplace and new suppliers for their products. People are creatures of habit. It is very difficult to change people. Have you not had a gf yet and learned this?

If you make it a huge hassle to cash out to fiat and BTC, users may lose interest in trying to earn.

Fourthly, confidence is built overtime. Amazon and Ebay did not start off with their loyal user base from the get go. It is not a stretch to say confidence can be obtained over time.

Perhaps over time, but for example I'll be coming up behind you soon enough and offering something much better. So will others, including Bitcoin and ecosystem marketplaces built on it. The world won't standstill to give you endless time.

[CoinHoarder]

The problem with Bitshares' DEX was low liquidity caused by low usership. Steemit has solved that.

The marketplace doesn't need to sell everything someone may need in order to get people to use it. There are a ton (millions?) Of successful ecommerce websites selling to niche target markets (furniture, car parts, electronics, clothing, etc.) Just because I can't buy everything I would need on Ebay or Amazon doesn't mean that I won't use them. I use both even though I can't buy anything I may possibly need on them.

I agree people don't like change, but like Ebay, more risk prone people will try out merchants and over time they will build up reputations. Once reputations exceed expectations, the more risk adverse buyers wouldn't mind using the merchants for the sake of convenience, assuming prices are similar to what they can get elsewhere.

I know there are competitors, but those competitor's don't have the exploding user base of Steemit to leverage. Vaporware is vaporware, and it is not worth debating vaporware that I have no information on (your coin).

[iamnotback]

https://steemit.com/steem/@nimos/hitler-finds-out-steem-was-up-1000-and-he-didn-t-buy-it-altcoins-parody

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJL9Te-mJDc

More circle-jerk content for Stupidit.

Hitler says, "I will put all of my wealth on Steemit". And we all know what happened to Hilter at the end of the war.

Hitler Dan has more jails and forced holdings than I ever seen in any crypto project:

Justifying Minimum Balances

The concept of forcing users to maintain a minimum balance flows naturally from the value of a user. Anyone running a business knows that every single user has significant value. Businesses spend anywhere from $30 to $200 to acquire a user...

[BitMaxz]

Do you think this is just like dao or waves that they are starting to grow but in the end will be down just like dao or waves..
As i can see that this coin is increasing and expensive right now according to other comment here.. do you think its worth it to invest in steemit?

[iamnotback]

Steemit has received a negative (and bordering on scathing) review:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/steem-soars-1000-bypassing-litecoin-can-work/

[XbladeX]

i love that part  :
"He believes he can build a worldwide currency enclosed inside a proof-of-stake corporation with an 80% stealth mine for the insiders."

guys be real look at companies with 300m $ stock market capitalizations if steem want to deal with them it will be very hard,
those folks are working at least 5x8h in week to improve company while we on exchanges sell dreams of gains.
For me fight with companies is useless they have support and stuff like that they have founds.
I wish them luck but life is life and crypto have to go on its own.

[iamnotback]

The problem with Bitshares' DEX was low liquidity caused by low usership. Steemit has solved that.

Perhaps yes if Dan can keep the ecosystem closed and cordoned off. If someone is allowed to offer a centralized exchange directly to the userbase, users may prefer to cash out directly on the centralized exchanges.

That still doesn't prove he will have created adoption. Giving people money and then locking them inside a corral, is not a business model make.

The marketplace doesn't need to sell everything someone may need in order to get people to use it. There are a ton (millions?) Of successful ecommerce websites selling to niche target markets (furniture, car parts, electronics, clothing, etc.) Just because I can't buy everything I would need on Ebay or Amazon doesn't mean that I won't use them. I use both even though I can't buy anything I may possibly need on them.

You might structure your purchases such that you try to buy everything you can on the Steem marketplace with Steem tokens, and then use your external fiat for other needs in other market places. But the users who don't really care about Steemit (just joined for the free money), will probably really want fiat. They are not ideologically invested. You bribed them, they came to get the free money. For them, money is fiat. They may feel cheated if they never get to extract fiat from the endeavour.

[ArticMine]

My thoughts on Steem. The business model here is actually very straightforward. The Steem members post blogs, members of the public view those blogs and also view advertising. The revenue from the advertising is shared between the operation of the site, the bloggers and curators / moderators etc. In order for this to work one needs to blogs to be public and not require a sign up, account etc., in order to view the content.

The main competitor here is Facebook and Facebook 1) Does not pay its contributors, and 2) even worse requires a signup in order to view much of the content which is more often then not heavily restricted by the contributor. This model has the major failing of drastically restricting  the audience while making the content targeted to very specific viewers. This has made Facebook have very low revenue per 1000 unique page views for advertising and have to depend almost exclusively on large scale commercial surveillance for advertising revenue. Monetizing the pictures of babies may work for a while until the baby becomes a teenager and rebels against both the parents who uploaded the picture and the corporation who is monetizing it.  I have been in the web advertising business for over 12 years  and found the the key is useful content and large numbers of visitors. A good page can generate about 1 - 10 USD per 1000 unique page views. A poor page may generate a few cents  if at all per 1000 unique page views. Facebook is at the very low end here.

My take is that this can become a very competitive business regardless of how it is structured, be it a blockchain based solution or simply a for profit blogging site that pays its contributors, with various sites and platforms competing for the business.

I have not looked at all at the blockchain / token structure here at all so I am not in a position to comment on it. My take is that if Steem does not work something similar will and it will also drastically disrupt the current social media business models.

[jwinterm]

My thoughts on Steem. The business model here is actually very straightforward. The Steem members post blogs, members of the public view those blogs and also view advertising. The revenue from the advertising is shared between the operation of the site, the bloggers and curators / moderators etc. In order for this to work one needs to blogs to be public and not require a sign up, account etc., in order to view the content.

The main competitor here is Facebook and Facebook 1) Does not pay its contributors, and 2) even worse requires a signup in order to view much of the content which is more often then not heavily restricted by the contributor. This model has the major failing of drastically restricting  the audience while making the content targeted to very specific viewers. This has made Facebook have very low revenue per 1000 unique page views for advertising and have to depend almost exclusively on large scale commercial surveillance for advertising revenue. Monetizing the pictures of babies may work for a while until the baby becomes a teenager and rebels against both the parents who uploaded the picture and the corporation who is monetizing it.  I have been in the web advertising business for over 12 years  and found the the key is useful content and large numbers of visitors. A good page can generate about 1 - 10 USD per 1000 unique page views. A poor page may generate a few cents  if at all per 1000 unique page views. Facebook is at the very low end here.

My take is that this can become a very competitive business regardless of how it is structured, be it a blockchain based solution or simply a for profit blogging site that pays its contributors, with various sites and platforms competing for the business.

I have not looked at all at the blockchain / token structure here at all so I am not in a position to comment on it. My take is that if Steem does not work something similar will and it will also drastically disrupt the current social media business models.

The main competitor isn't Facebook, it's reddit, voat, and yours (like reddit but rewards content producers with Bitcoin). Steem is at a huge disadvantage to reddit in terms of network effect - content producers and advertisers want to go where the eyeballs are, and that is in my opinion payment enough. I think they're also at a disadvantage to yours or whatever gets off the ground rewarding it's users in Bitcoin or some other more liquid asset; why would users want to be trapped in this convoluted mess of dollars, vests, powers, steem, etc when they could be rewarded with something very much easier to convert into their own local currency. Moreover, steem made the (imo) stupid decision to store everything on their blockchain, which granted they can prune at any time they like since insiders control all the voting power and can force a fork when they want to, but still, why the fuck would you put memes in a blockchain. Finally, yours or whatever else crops up won't have to deal with the stigma of instamining 80% of the monetary supply, they're just a company, so they can act like one, they don't have to put on this bullshit facade of being a decentralized autonomous organization.

[BigSirko]

Some people boasted about 10,000 people using Steemit but, judging by the pending payouts, almost all the activity is $0 / "freemium users".  Getting a force of 10,000 out is sizeable in the crypto but it makes it nowhere as popular as Bitcointalk dotorg and isn't indicative of viral adoption. 

As I've said before - Reddit clones have been tried a dozen times before and none end up viral.

Steemit already has had hacks and the upvoting seems to be a circle jerk over Bitshares and Cleavage.

[CoinHoarder]

Some people boasted about 10,000 people using Steemit but, judging by the pending payouts, almost all the activity is $0 / "freemium users".  Getting a force of 10,000 out is sizeable in the crypto but it makes it nowhere as popular as Bitcointalk dotorg and isn't indicative of viral adoption. 

As I've said before - Reddit clones have been tried a dozen times before and none end up viral.

You must be high or retarded if you think the hard data recorded on an immutable block chain is not indicative of viral growth: https://steemle.com/charts.php

[magicalacademy]

You know what i like about steemit:

It is a very fair system

The poor indian guy with a dying father gets 0.02$ https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@hendry-cie-poe/hello-steemit-hendry-here-for-verification#@hendry-cie-poe

And the hot western chick gets 4200$ https://steemit.com/beauty/@guerrint/the-first-steemit-makeup-turtorial-bringing-youtubers-to-steemit

It's too bad no one thought about a way to pay the chick 4150$ and the indian guy 50.02$  /s