FandangledGizmo
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July 21, 2016, 11:16:02 PM |
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Each user on Facebook, Reddit and Twitter has a value based on what investors think they are or will be worth to advertisers (advertising revenue) less the running costs of the business. http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2013/11/07/a-twitter-user-is-worth-110-facebooks-98-linkedins-93/#3da863619c12Steemit has no revenue from advertisers/other to cover running costs and most importantly is paying out large bonuses to attract new users and large amounts for their content. (Which other social media platforms get for free.) So Steemit is just a bottomless pit of expenses and no revenue. Synereo on the other hand for example does have a business model. A social media site, where the majority of advertising revenue goes to the users in return for consuming advertising content. So that has the potential to be a lucrative, sustainable business model and Facebook killer. The minute speculators stop buying Steem it may collapse because there is no business model or revenue source only the hope speculators will value a site attracting users and not use common sense. The minute speculators stop buying Steem it may collapse because there is no business model or revenue source only the hope speculators will value a site attracting users and not use common sense.
The platform itself may not have ads, but the content itself can be ad-style / ad-supported even include gray-advertising. So, in that sense, purchasing steem power also gives you the power to commercialize products and services by reaching a broader audience. Unfortunately Steem will have a limited future if content is manipulated in that way... Digg faced problems due to so-called "power users" who would manipulate the article recommendation features... making it impossible to have genuine content from non-power users appear on the front page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiggSocial media site Soshable graphed 118 stories on the once-fabled Digg front page in three days after the new iteration's release. Six publishers and one influential technology pundit control the lion share of Digg's most important space, it shows. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/pda/2010/aug/31/digg-redesign-revolthttp://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/07/12/digg-once-worth-164-million-sold-to-betaworks-for-500k/#6927d6682c66 |
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It is a common myth that Bitcoin is ruled by a majority of miners. This is not true. Bitcoin miners "vote" on the ordering of transactions, but that's all they do. They can't vote to change the network rules.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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FandangledGizmo
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July 21, 2016, 11:20:22 PM |
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Steem will generate no revenue in 2016 and have MUCH higher expenses than Reddit because it's paying users for content.
Incorrect. I added the following to my blog post to explain it: Steem is generating revenue for STEEM POWER investors taken from those who hold STEEM instead of STEEM POWER. We need to upgrade our conceptualization of revenue. Revenue is any gain in value not paid by the long-term investors! It is actually quite a clever paradigm-shift innovation on the definition of a revenue generating investment.
Yes but as I said, The minute speculators stop buying Steem it may collapse because there is no business model or revenue source only the hope speculators will value a site attracting users and not use common sense. So you're just relying on a greater fool/speculator buying Steem to support those expenses because there is no actual underlying business model or revenue source. |
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Zer0Sum
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July 21, 2016, 11:56:12 PM |
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That's interesting: https://steemit.com/money/@jl777/steem-price-might-double-next-week-liquidity-awards-to-be-temporarily-suspended-new-supply-of-liquid-steem-to-be-reduced...and from github: "Due to the controversy of liquidity rewards we are going to evaluate our design and change liquidity rewards if needed. For now, we believe they are not providing enough value to keep around. We have decided to disable liquidity rewards altogether for the time being while we work on a more permanent solution. This is a temporary change. The internal market not charging transaction fees may be enough of an incentive to trade internally that we may not need liquidity rewards at all. All of these aspects will go into our final decision. We encourage the community to voice their thoughts on liquidity rewards and potential changes in a civil and objective manner."Less leaking/dumping  Most people don't know or care what "liquidity rewards" are... But all of the fake "liquidity rewards" so far have been hoarded by whales (and probably kicked back to Steemit Inc). Paying a liquidity rebate to all "makers" is a TRIVIAL industry standard... So we don't need any more Frankenstein algos... from the usual suspects who make a living building Frankenstein algos. About 30-50 whales control 50% of the STEEM network... They did not buy control, but either Ninja Mined it in April (20%) or had it allocated to Principals (20%). All the main STEEM distribution avenues (posting, voting, liquidity rewards)... Methodically transfer wealth in a circle-jerk UP the ladder to the Whale Accounts. In fact, the only way the Principals and Whales can easily get cash out is by gaming the system... So all 50 Whales know who the other 50 Whales are and keep methodically upvoting Whale posts in a circular fashion... It's all a big ATM Machine for the Whales... Plus the "Deposit Function" is a huge BTC/STEEM Arb Monopoly for Steemit Inc This might all be par for the course in cryto, but security is an ongoing shit show... With global 24/7 black hat blockchain analysis... and the standard browser exploits... and spam pros licking their chops... So no web account is secure and only people doing all business with CLI steemd in a VM have blockchain security. I assure you all 50 Whales are running CLI steemd in a VM for weeks/months (using ONLY the posting key online)... While 99% of the noobs are not technically advanced enough to use CLI steemd for all money functions. (Solution = NXT/NEM style GUI wallet with built-in Exchange + all money transfers blockchain secure). If all that SP was not locked up you would have seen a massive > 50% dump, easy. Is is "workable long-term"? So far, it's just a glorified BitcoinTalk with security issues and a few Girls-Gone-Steem... But the Devs have showed they can deliver... and have endless opportunities to leverage a micropayments platform in any direction. Sure made Ethereum look like yesterday's news. |
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iamnotback
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July 21, 2016, 11:57:04 PM
Last edit: July 22, 2016, 05:17:20 PM by iamnotback |
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Another way they set it up so the insiders and early adopters got most of the STEEM POWER: Steem’s Current 354% Interest Rate!
Per @james-show's comment post below, the current approximate annual average rate of interest is 354% and will decline gradually as follows over the next months.
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iamnotback
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July 21, 2016, 11:59:27 PM |
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Steem will generate no revenue in 2016 and have MUCH higher expenses than Reddit because it's paying users for content.
Incorrect. I added the following to my blog post to explain it: Steem is generating revenue for STEEM POWER investors taken from those who hold STEEM instead of STEEM POWER. We need to upgrade our conceptualization of revenue. Revenue is any gain in value not paid by the long-term investors! It is actually quite a clever paradigm-shift innovation on the definition of a revenue generating investment.
Yes but as I said, The minute speculators stop buying Steem it may collapse because there is no business model or revenue source only the hope speculators will value a site attracting users and not use common sense. So you're just relying on a greater fool/speculator buying Steem to support those expenses because there is no actual underlying business model or revenue source. Not if they can generate significant transaction volume. Please read the rest of section that I linked you to. |
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CoinHoarder
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July 22, 2016, 12:11:40 AM |
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I am trying to do some maths, which is admittedly my weak point. Tell me what is wrong here? The value of SP and STEEM add up to more than the market cap. I was unsure as to what numbers to use on https://steemd.com/ side bar to get the total SP and total STEEM. I think that is the issue... SBD value was obtained from http://www.steemdollar.com/To make the math easier, I rounded each number up or down to an integer... 105,098,670 is the current total of SP There is 89% annual interest on SP Current value ($3.46 per SP): $363,641,398 USD 2,746,591 is the current total of STEEM There is -100% annual interest on STEEM Current value ($3.46 per STEEM): $9,503,205 USD 834,691 SBD is the current total of SBD There is 10% annual interest on SBD Current value ($1.29 per SBD): $1,076,751 USD STEEM Market Cap: $315,540,740 Approximately 2.54% is being held in STEEM, while 97.46% is being held in SP? |
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smooth
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July 22, 2016, 12:13:27 AM |
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If you mean the market cap reported by coinmarketcap they exclude some of the coins held by steemit that have never circulated, same as they do for ripple and others. I was unsure as to what numbers to use on Steemd.com side bar to get the total SP and total STEEM. I think that is the issue... total SP = total_vesting_fund_steem total Steem = current_supply total Steem, assuming all SD converted to Steem at the current price = virtual_supply |
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CoinHoarder
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July 22, 2016, 12:14:23 AM |
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If you mean the market cap reported by coinmarketcap they exclude some of the coins held by steemit that have never circulated, same as they do for ripple and others.
Yes. Thanks, that is probably it. Maybe my math is fine then. |
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FandangledGizmo
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July 22, 2016, 12:54:43 AM |
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Steem will generate no revenue in 2016 and have MUCH higher expenses than Reddit because it's paying users for content.
Incorrect. I added the following to my blog post to explain it: Steem is generating revenue for STEEM POWER investors taken from those who hold STEEM instead of STEEM POWER. We need to upgrade our conceptualization of revenue. Revenue is any gain in value not paid by the long-term investors! It is actually quite a clever paradigm-shift innovation on the definition of a revenue generating investment.
Yes but as I said, The minute speculators stop buying Steem it may collapse because there is no business model or revenue source only the hope speculators will value a site attracting users and not use common sense. So you're just relying on a greater fool/speculator buying Steem to support those expenses because there is no actual underlying business model or revenue source. Not if they can generate significant transaction volume. Please read the rest of section that I linked you to. Whereas, STEEM holders are paid nothing while the total supply of tokens is debased by 100% annually. Thus, STEEM holders lose 0.19% per day³, 1.34% per week, and 50% per year of the total Steem market capitalization. https://poloniex.com/lending#BTCWhy do you think borrowers on Polo are rarely willing to pay >0.02% a day to borrow? (Because there's very few investments speculators confidently think can consistenly outperform that borrowing rate.) Yet you're expecting a greater fool to continue buying Steem even though there is no revenue or business model and at a daily cost of >0.1%... Unfortunately once speculators start to look into it more I think you will find demand for Steem drying up. |
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CoinHoarder
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July 22, 2016, 01:08:37 AM |
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@FandangledGizmo I think that your assessment is fairly accurate of Steemit as it exists right now. However, you could also look at buying STEEM as speculating on the amount of usership Steemit will able to garner. If Steemit can garner a large user base, then Steemit can implement profitable features down the road to profit off of that huge user base in numerous ways. Buying STEEM now is a gambling on whether they will be able to turn a huge user base into a profitable business plan. I think it is also short sided to think Steemit is simply a social media platform. It could also be a ratings web site such as Metacritic, Yelp, eOpinions, Yelp, TripAdvisor, Flixter. An Ebay-like marketplace. A crowdfunding platform. Etc... I laid out a decent outline of how to leverage schemas in Steem to make a rating website like Metacritic, Yelp, Tripadvisor, or CNET consumer electronic reviews, etc... I think this could potentially exponentially increase paid advertising revenue and obtaining users through organic search results. https://steemit.com/proposal/@coinhoarder/steem-proposal-create-different-types-of-posts-for-different-use-cases-greater-than-first-use-case-steemit-reviewsPeople are focusing on it as being a social media platform, and judging the economics as such, but it could be so much more. To give a token investment value, you have to create some transaction demand for the token originating from those who had to buy the token (not just from tokens given away to bloggers coming out of investors' pockets).
A decentralized market combined with anonymous SBD transfers could create some demand for STEEM. 😉 I don't think Dan and company have the balls for that though. It would also require a downloadable GUI since that would make any centralized wallet a target. I still maintain paid advertising is a part of the solution. I realize it won't solve the issue because it is not enough money, but it would create some demand for STEEM outside of the STEEM network. They could integrate something like SIA has for file storage. An integrated image uploading solution would be quite handy actually, but I guess people wouldn't be willing to pay for it. Chalk that one up to an unprofitable yet awesomely convenient feature. A DEX utilizing sidechains (read: not derivatives) can be a profitable feature. As long as profit is being made, it would work similarly to creating demand for STEM by offsetting debasement. It might also coincidentally create extra demand for STEEM if the SBD was used as a main trading pair against other Cryptos. Creating a smart contract programming language which allows other people to build apps on top of STEEM which could create demand for STEEM. Aka... the Ethereum business model Gamification could create demand for STEEM. One excellent example would be Bitcrystals... a collectable card game. Collectible card games and block chains make a lot of sense to me, but I am sure there are other types of games. I touched on this up post, but you need to also that any feature that makes the DAC profitable works similarly to creating demand for STEEM as it offsets debasement. A casino and gambling games are a fine example. That would also likely create some demand for STEEM, but most of the gamblers would probably come from within the ecosystem. Side note: I think allowing people to gamble with their locked up SP on an on chain casino would be a great idea. Certainly some would gamble away all their SP which would negate debasement. I can see a lot of impatient people that would do so. The casino would pay out in locked up SP, and of course the house has an edge, so I don't see any consequences for the DAC. Record keeping and notary services could create some profit/demand. Popularizing SBD as a savings account could create some demand. It does pay good interest compared to most bank savings accounts. It does serve as a good crypto hedge while still staying within the crypto ecosystem. Probably a better hedge than USDT or Nubits etc, considering the interest. Offering user issued assets or crowd funding can create demand/profit, but admittedly that space is quite crowded already. There may still be some potential there. Mutual aid societies can create demand/profit. Creating a network of other chain's block explorers via a Masternode-like network to offer governance services to crap to currencies that don't have such could create profit via side chains. Utilizing Masternodes offers up some interesting profitable services that can also create demand. One thing that comes to mind is by offering VPNs or possibly a TOR-like network that runs on a subscription based model. Say what you will about DASH, but I think Masternodes can be leveraged to do all sorts of things. Since transactions are free in the STEEM network, you could setup sidechains for other Cryptos and offer discounted transfer fees. Profit is made off of transfer fees. Someone could send BTC to the side chain to lock in that same amount of BTC, then send it off the BTC chain over the STEEM network to anyone that has a STEM account. See what I'm saying about profit though? If you can create enough profit to completely offset debasement, then it would create demand for STEEM because it is a profitable DAC. Even if you can't generate enough profit, it partially offsets debasement and a lesser amount of demand is necessary to prop up the price. /thinking cap My brain is tired. |
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FandangledGizmo
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July 22, 2016, 02:13:25 AM |
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You are comparing apples to oranges here. Steemit and Reddit are not even in the same market. Reddit is in the Censorship business (blogs can be censored) Steemit is in the free speech business (blogs that cannot be censored because they are protected by Satoshi's open source blockchain tech). Why do apples and oranges cost differently when they are both technically foods? Because they are in different sectors of that market. Learn about market sectors and you will see that Steemit currently has no competitors therefore comparative market analysis is impossible. It's like you are saying that since venezuela has a small GDP, then so should the USA because they are both "governments" Or like saying, "the orange does not taste like a banana, so when will it's flavor change to resemble the banana since they both are fruits. Different categories entirely. You are trying to compare a business that has a monopoly in its sector to one that does not. Unfortunately having content ranked not on what is the most popular but what has the most money behind it will effectively result in censorship because whales or large corporate interests can dictate what users primarily view. Media integrity
Media integrity refers to the ability of a media outlet to serve the public interest and democratic process, making it resilient to institutional corruption within the media system, economy of influence, conflicting dependence and political clientelism. Such a situation enables excessive instrumentalisation of the media for particular political interests, which is subverting democratic role of the media. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_of_media_ownershipThe Steemit system ensures viewers will in the not too distant future see a front page of either advertising or government sponsored political propaganda & views not supported by the largest corporate/political interests will be buried. Assuming it survives to that stage this process will alienate users and freedom minded contributors. This was the downfall of Digg and also one of the reasons Reddit has had user revolts recently. |
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AlexGR
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July 22, 2016, 02:58:07 AM
Last edit: July 22, 2016, 03:35:16 AM by AlexGR |
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_of_media_ownershipThe Steemit system ensures viewers will in the not too distant future see a front page of either advertising or government sponsored political propaganda & views not supported by the largest corporate/political interests will be buried. Assuming it survives to that stage this process will alienate users and freedom minded contributors. This was the downfall of Digg and also one of the reasons Reddit has had user revolts recently. If steem collapses in value, then obviously nobody wants its tokens (including governments, corporations, media etc). If governments, corporations and media want the tokens (to control the platform's content) then there is demand for the token and the price can't crumble. It's kind of either this or that - both can't happen at the same time due to the rules of market demand. How do I downvote comments and posts on Steemit  There's a flag icon on the upper right. |
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iamnotback
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July 22, 2016, 03:10:42 AM |
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How do I downvote comments and posts on Steemit There's a flag icon on the upper right. Not for comments. How to downvote comment posts? Ah wait I see it if hover the mouse. |
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generalizethis
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July 22, 2016, 04:29:55 AM |
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So this took about two hours: https://steemit.com/music/@generalizethis/analysis-of-change-in-the-house-of-flies-by-the-deftonesPretty good if you don't account for I had the materials at hand (pics, analysis, music links) now I did find some additional material while working and I had to move stuff from word press to a file to create the imgur images (mouthful, I know), but I'd estimate that without the analysis (need that before the start) that it would take a day or two to create this from scratch--there's endless looking for the right picture, downloading and uploading it, and general nuisance stuff. The biggest leap I could get in time would be a better organized database (why do I get cat memes when I search fine/modern art? Folk would be funny, but far less ironic and far more time wasted)--another way I could gain some time is by having imgur's and soundcloud's and youtube's content at one shop. I'd gladly pay for this saved time. |
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r0ach
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July 22, 2016, 05:11:34 AM |
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@ Smooth: When it says Steem is "invitation only" right now, does that mean someone like Anonymint can invite me, or is registration completely down? Someone already stole my username o_O: https://steemit.com/@r0ach |
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generalizethis
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July 22, 2016, 05:43:45 AM |
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smooth
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July 22, 2016, 07:27:44 AM |
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@ Smooth: When it says Steem is "invitation only" right now, does that mean someone like Anonymint can invite me, or is registration completely down?
It means you can't register through the web. Someone with the cli tools could still create an account for you. That might have been me (reserved some common names of people I know early on). PM me. How do I downvote comments and posts on Steemit There's a flag icon on the upper right. Not for comments. How to downvote comment posts? Ah wait I see it if hover the mouse. There is a subtle flag for comments too. Look for it, upper right. |
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bbc.reporter
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July 22, 2016, 07:37:48 AM |
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"All a matter of funding. If steem creates a big suck and the big content houses react, then they'll likely launch their own versions on the "content4pay " concept. The key is community mindset and not necessarily growth/adoption stats."
This is true. If the big content houses are smart they should react at the right time and act in the right way. But if they do not react at all, they will be eaten alive slowly by the new blood and their market will shrink. Dominance in business in the internet is not the same in the real world. The shift in power happens much faster and at the strangest times online. The advent of blockchain apps will see to this.
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generalizethis
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July 22, 2016, 08:48:41 AM |
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"All a matter of funding. If steem creates a big suck and the big content houses react, then they'll likely launch their own versions on the "content4pay " concept. The key is community mindset and not necessarily growth/adoption stats."
This is true. If the big content houses are smart they should react at the right time and act in the right way. But if they do not react at all, they will be eaten alive slowly by the new blood and their market will shrink. Dominance in business in the internet is not the same in the real world. The shift in power happens much faster and at the strangest times online. The advent of blockchain apps will see to this.
But will the threat of decentralization keep them in line and playing nice or do we get more giants like GM challenging Uber with the buy of Lyft and Side Car? I've always assumed that MLK benefitted from Malcom X's more extreme political stance (no way to prove it of course). |
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