bacchist
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July 16, 2016, 06:41:49 PM |
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Thank you for helping set the record straight with your ninja edit. Your comment on reddit mods is perhaps the most accurate thing you've said in this thread.  |
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The grue lurks in the darkest places of the earth. Its favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.
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iamnotback
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July 16, 2016, 06:56:34 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2016, 07:32:57 PM by iamnotback |
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Thank you for helping set the record straight with your ninja edit.
Dan, perhaps you might want to read my edits again, to be sure you still agree they are accurate. I see you failed to note the words "may be" and "i can not confirm if this is real or fake" that is in what you quoted before any edit was made. Disingenuous is your desperate trolling tactic.
Edit: there is some more discussion at the Bitshares forum: So it looks like the STEEM hack might be worse than thought. The site has been read-only all morning and has been completely down for the last hour. Last I read regarding the hack was from @ash about 8 hours ago saying that the attacker is continuing to milk accounts.
Since Steemit is obviously down right now, I figured I'd bring the discussion over here. Anyone have a clue what the hell's going on?
Their centralized wallet got hacked after all this advertisement of advantages of decentralized blockchain. LMAO!
The principal risk remains, however. If someone manages to sneak some JavaScript code into the site, then your keys will be compromised.
This last comment is true that if you are using a website wallet, you really are using a centralized wallet regardless if the private key is only stored on a paper wallet. Also I am LMAO that Streemit is apparently using PHP server-side, the same insecure language Mark Karpeles used for Mt. Gox. And more people are starting to realize this is a corporate controlled block chain: Steemit needs more decentralisation and open communication. At this point it is basically a centralized service that uses a blockchain to attract people in this space by pretending to be decentralized.
As soon as steemit.com is down, nobody knows whats going on. The steemit organization still has full control over the blockchain, as we saw yesterday they can simply do a hardfork without asking anybody.
Steemit.com is not decentralised. It is only a gateway GUI to the Steem protocol. You can open your own gateway competing with Steemit. Right now the only alternative is using the command line to interact with the protocol. But normal users would hate to interact with the command line. Also it is nice for new users to get a gift of a few SP when using Steemit.com for signing up. In the future I guess some people will fork Steemit and customize their own thing. The block chain isn't necessarily decentralized either, because it is DPoS. At least the checkpoints have to be centralized. |
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albert11 (OP)
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July 16, 2016, 08:08:32 PM |
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In the future some people won't fork steemit.com they will fork the whole protocol and launch with a fair distribution so that there isn't huge voting power discrepancy, which is key in that type of system.
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iamnotback
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July 16, 2016, 08:20:41 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2016, 08:45:23 PM by iamnotback |
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Another braindead design from the Steem whitepaper: Bandwidth Instead of Micropayment Channels
In our estimate it should be sufficient to measure the average weekly bandwidth usage of users. Every time a user signs a transaction, that transaction is factored into their own individual moving average. Any time a user’s moving average exceeds the current network limit their transaction is delayed until their average falls below the limit.
So users can't do rapid succession of transactions. An entire use case has been eliminated because of Dan's incorrect logic about transaction fees. He'll learn from my white paper when it is published. I am not going to tell him now as he would copy me. What is your project roughly? The Steemit and Graphene DPoS block chain developers are apparently thinking that they can handle any popular use cases with a 3 - 5 second block confirmation delay and without letting any user do multiple 5 second transactions within a small time window of say for example 1 minute ( or perhaps the limitation is as high as 10 minutes in their case but I don't know precisely). They also state in the Steem white paper that microtransactions (aka pay-per-use) is not a popular use case, because it is well known that users don't like the cognitive cost of reasoning about many small valued transactions. P.S. the only way to make a CC popular is to make it for spending on something that has no existing market.
But I believe there are gamification use cases where users need rapid-fire pay-per-use. Gamification is for example how Farmville become the most addictive and profitable game on Facebook. Even if I am incorrect about gamification, some types of smart contracts and block chains as a decentralized database may need rapid-fire instant transactions. Streemit I presume makes the assumption that a human user can't touch the block chain database more often than perhaps once or twice per minute, but that assumption is quite arbitrary and limiting if you think about it. Also I don't expect DPoS to be able to maintain 5 second transactions, defend against DDoS attacks, and scale to 100,000 transactions per second without being centralized by an oligarchy of delegate miners. In short, I am thinking Graphene and DPoS is not a sufficiently robust technology to take us forward into the Blockchain 2.0 era.They've placed all their eggs in the Graphene basket. And I think they will discover it is not robust enough for putting the masses on a block chain. So I think their core block chain technology which they are so proud of and trying to leverage, is actually deficient. And that is fundamental, even notwithstanding the other flaws I think I am seeing their inability to understand social networks. |
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iamnotback
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July 16, 2016, 08:26:19 PM |
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In the future some people won't fork steemit.com they will fork the whole protocol and launch with a fair distribution so that there isn't huge voting power discrepancy, which is key in that type of system.
First we have to see if the model is even working in terms of usership. And in terms of being able to fund paying users adequately ongoing. And if you did relaunch, you might not be able to retain the same economic incentives with a fair distribution. The entire thing looks retarded to me (for the many reasons that have been explained upthread) which would not be entirely fixed with a fair distribution, but I am still waiting for the charts link to stop being under maintenance so I can see if this paradigm has any viral adoption with a reasonable attrition rate. I doubt it! The best thing that could happen would be for all those who locked their investment for 2 years in Steam Power, to watch the project die to $0 exchange price while they are prevented from cashing out. A nice spanking for idiots. Unfortunately these markets are often quite irrational, so I doubt the best thing will happen first (but maybe last). |
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BigSirko
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July 16, 2016, 09:04:41 PM |
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In the future some people won't fork steemit.com they will fork the whole protocol and launch with a fair distribution so that there isn't huge voting power discrepancy, which is key in that type of system.
First we have to see if the model is even working in terms of usership. Right now all I am seeing is dick stroking about "ZOMG 11,000 users!" but not only is that a low number, as other projects have gotten 100,000s of downloads, but it doesn't indicate to us about the retention rate of these users staying and contributing to the network. We have many metrics available which suggest Steemit is less popular than other Reddit clones. As well from what I have seen on the website, almost all the comments / replies are from people who aren't even able to make $1. There's a lot of wannabe content producers on Steemit who are unable to make $5 and they're starting to get disillusioned. We have many metrics available like Alexa ranking which suggest Steemit is less popular than other Reddit clones. There's nothing viral or mainstream about Steemit. Perhaps this will open the can of worms and create a social media race among crypto but, unless you can break out into viral adoption, it's all "FOMO" like we've seen since 2013. |
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AlexGR
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July 16, 2016, 09:39:33 PM |
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I am going to flood the Steemit site with filipino bloggers. More the merrier. As many as possible should get their free $10 of SP. We will start the viral campaign on Facebook once the Steemit site is back up from the hack recovery. Don't so I didn't do my part to help  Well the Steemit sign up sucks so much that we abandoned this plan. First we tested earlier and my gf signed up with her Facebook account. The site signed her up but it wasn't fully functional due to the hack. Later with the site fully functional, she can't login. It says her username doesn't exist at the login interface. Yet if she tries to sign up again, it says her username already signed up. So she is stuck in a blackhole bug and can't continue. Tonight her sister signed up, but instead of the promised $10, she only received 5 SP (Steem Power) with an estimated value of "$3.85". She clicked to "Power Down" and was told (in some cryptic message that only a programmer such as myself might comprehend) she needs to earn 10X more SP before she can start Power Down process. So she said fuck this and left. The only thing she is presented for content publishing is a box for "Blog" where I guess she needs to type markdown, but she has no clue about markdown. I doubt the 3000 sign ups per day are not mostly abandoned accounts. This site is not for your average person, because they will never figure this out. You need to be computer savvy or having a friend who is helping you. The main issue is that it requires too much effort to figure out. Even I wasn't going to spend the effort to figure it out and then train these two ladies. Who has time for that. User interfaces need to be very, very easy. So if this is an indication of their user interface programming and design skills, they are not going to be successful making a mass adopted system and crypto-currency. Perhaps they will improve later. One of the major challenges when attempting to create a new social network, is that users are really loath to learn sites that are not as easy-as-pie. And they are more comfortable with the user interfaces of the sites they already use. Additionally the requirement for 16 character password was also a pita. My gf was going to stop because of that, but I urged her to continue the sign up process. Both of the ladies said they were afraid it is a scam and they would go to jail. They both seemed very uninterested, because they don't believe any social network will give you $10 for signing up. They thought I was trying to trick them. Both of these ladies were eager for me to stop peskering them so they could go back to Facebook and Youtube. They want to work at Kidzooona and earn money taking care of kids. They don't seem interested in online work. For them online stuff is for chatting with friends and watching tubes. If delusion Dan is thinking he can scale up a currency all by himself and without an open ecosystem, and yet he can't even understand that many people just wouldn't be interested in the Steemit shit he is peddling, then I think everyone should definitely invest all their life savings in Steem Power (SP) tokens and lock up their entire net worth for 2 years unable to sell or cash out. Sell your houses and go all in, this is a SureThing™. The SureThing™ and WeCanDoItTiedTogether™ trademarks are the sole property of the Steermites corporation and may not be used for any purpose. I don't think the founders understand the barriers to entry and barriers to use and "incentives" to bail out of the system due to problems encountered. However, despite that, it's growing up. I think you should register and make a "Hi, I'm Anonymint" introduction. You'll make 10k easy. Heck, jl777 made 20k => https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@jl777/steemit-is-crypto-s-first-mass-market-solution |
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chryspano
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July 16, 2016, 09:44:47 PM |
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He doesn't care about that, FUDing pays more. |
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AlexGR
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July 16, 2016, 09:46:13 PM |
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He doesn't care about that, FUDing pays more. But he can now FUD and get paid. Imagine anonymint bitching all day about various crypto projects, perhaps even steem itself, AND getting paid for it |
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chryspano
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July 16, 2016, 09:47:57 PM |
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He doesn't care about that, FUDing pays more. But he can now FUD and get paid. Imagine anonymint bitching all day about various crypto projects, perhaps even steem itself, AND getting paid for it lol Lets see if he changes his mind... |
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tobysc
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July 16, 2016, 10:13:42 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2016, 10:27:25 PM by tobysc |
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I'd like to give some comments on my experience with the platform so far and things I see as potential issues or bumps in the road. Perhaps we can have a discussion about these points. They will all assume the inner workings of the platform actually works (payouts etc). So these are more on a philosophical level.
QUALITY CONTROL
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Basically what I mean by this is that posts of higher quality generally gets more votes than those of lesser quality. I will assume this is a goal the creators of the platform have in mind. The reasoning behind this would be that higher quality content equals more satisfied users long term.
With quality I mean original, well written posts with substance. These can be funny, interesting, important etc.
The opposite of this would be content with perhaps no text at all (for example just a link to an article), posts containing only pictures of semi-nude women etc.
Question #1
I'm going to just throw these questions out there for anyone to comment on.
Is quality something this platform is striving for? Or is it perhaps popularity (the latest memes etc) before substance? Personally I'd argue it's striving for both (quality + popularity), since it acts sort of like a self-moderating community which tries to make posts of higher quality more visible. The more popular something is, the higher quality (or is it the other way around? share your thoughts). In my opinion it's in the best interest of both the community and the creators that the top of every page is filled with interesting content. Consuming the content should be a rewarding experience.
Question #2
If you think quality is something they're trying to aim for..can this be achieved with the current voting system? My take in this is "maybe". I can see some behavioral patterns which might be conflicting with the goal of reaching quality. One of these patterns is that you gain more points by being early to vote on something which might later turn out to be very popular. This mechanic encourages mass-voting on people whom the community has decided is popular and are following. So as soon as this person makes a post, its likely to gain tremendous amounts of votes in a short time period, possibly independent of the quality of the post itself. Technically I could see a person striking gold with a particular post, gaining the masses on his or her side, and then not having to worry about substance ever again (or at least for a while). Can this issue be fixed by somehow tweaking the system and removing this domino effect, or do you think the community will sort it out automatically?
Question #3
If you think quality is something they're trying to aim for..can this be achieved with the current monetary system (getting paid to contribute)? Or will getting paid for everything result in posting behaviours which does not go hand in hand with quality (perhaps quantity first)? If so, how would you personally change things around to make it better? On the top of my head, they could stop giving out any rewards at all unless you do more work, say post x amounts of articles with positive ratings. Not everyone on YT for example gets paid but you can get paid if you make tons and tons of content and tons of people watch you. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. But perhaps it does go against the whole idea of everyone getting paid. In any case people still post YT videos for other reasons than to just get money. And perhaps those reasons (various niched hobbies, spontaneously sharing funny moments etc) lead to better content than if YT had offered micro payments for everyone?
COPYRIGHT
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Concerns about the right to post certain content, images etc has been brought up. This is also something I have been thinking about.
Question #1
Is the website (steemit.com) as it currently functions viable in terms of copyright or will it be hunted down if it reaches high enough adoption? I'd argue yes it will probably be hunted down. The posts are all saved on the blockchain, yet the website itself remains centralized, if you will. As far as I understand they could technically be forced to shut it down if they get enough pressure. This could hurt the "brand" significantly since it seems the goal is to have a single easy gate to the service which should preferably always stay open and not move anywhere.
Question #2
If you said yes and the only option for survival long term is to have everything 100% decentralized, will this contradict the the goal of easy access? Or can both be achieved at the same time? What I mean by this is to have everything 100% safe from any censorship while still keeping it super user friendly and open to anyone.
Just some general thoughts. What do you think?
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iamnotback
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July 16, 2016, 10:51:42 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2016, 12:53:55 AM by iamnotback |
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I would only get significant payouts if I wrote something positive for their aspirations (which jl777 did), as you did trying to make constructive suggestions for improvement. If I wrote my true analysis per what I've written in this thread, I would probably receive numerous down votes from whales. Do y'all want me to write my true thoughts just to prove that Steemit is a circle-jerk weighting system? I probably should do it right, so as to show them that their system is downvoting dissenting opinions and thus implicating the system is a circle-jerk, and not an information resource akin to Reddit. |
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tobysc
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July 16, 2016, 10:55:40 PM |
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Hah, touché. Though I still think there are some points in there worth discussing. To be honest I hadn't given much thought to the so-called quadratic weighting scheme. I knew it existed, but thought it was less important compared to the vote of the masses. This was probably because the platform seem to promote a vibrant community where everyone has equal say and opportunity..which is what any newbie coming into the system will want. At least it should always be possible to work yourself up the ladder. Control of the votes shouldn't be centralized. Wouldn't it have made more sense long term for them to drop this system completely in favour of "flat" voting, reddit-style? Does this approach imply they are not looking for long term? |
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magicalacademy
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July 16, 2016, 10:57:59 PM |
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Basically what I mean by this is that posts of higher quality generally gets more votes than those of lesser quality.
The problem is that dan, ned and smooth decide what a quality post is. And so far they have decided that boobs and steem praise is a quality post. So if you want to make money on steem you need to post a video of your gf in bikini on the streets handing out steem flyers. |
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AlexGR
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July 16, 2016, 10:58:20 PM |
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I would only get significant payouts if I wrote something positive for their aspirations (which jl777 did), as you did trying to make constructive suggestions for improvement. If I wrote my true analysis per what I've written in this thread, I would probably receive numerous down votes from whales. Do y'all want me to write my true thoughts just to prove that Steemit is a circle-jerk weighting system? I probably should do it right, so as to show them that their system is downvoting dissenting opinions and thus implicating the system is a circle-jerk, and not an information resource akin to Reddit. (careful with speakers - he yells  ) |
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iamnotback
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July 16, 2016, 11:06:20 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2016, 12:53:39 AM by iamnotback |
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Admitting that pegged assets can't be decentralized. Okay fine by me as I never expected they could be. Better to be pragmatic. This is very poorly written starting about mid-way through and I can't entirely follow what you are trying to say. Any way, we already documented that advertising can't generate more than roughly $15 per user per year. So unless paying only a small % of the users these huge payouts is going to be sufficient incentive, then advertising is not a sufficient funding vehicle. Dan knows this and is why he is trying for the merchant business plan which we already discussed upthread and I explained to you probably won't work. So it seems to me you are proposing non-solutions. So Steem needs KYC to avoid the voting system being gamed, so that is why we keep all the voting power in a few whales hands and pretend the others users having voting power when they really don't. Your amateurish skills are showing now... but at least you apparently understand (or are capable of understanding) many of the technical concepts. |
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tobysc
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July 16, 2016, 11:17:01 PM |
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Basically what I mean by this is that posts of higher quality generally gets more votes than those of lesser quality.
The problem is that dan, ned and smooth decide what a quality post is. And so far they have decided that boobs and steem praise is a quality post. So if you want to make money on steem you need to post a video of your gf in bikini on the streets handing out steem flyers. Haha, point taken. Well this is indeed a gigantic problem. And they'll basically continue to have this power until they cash out, right? Which probably no one would want to happen.. Only way to "fix" this would probably be to clone and re-launch as a new project, no? I'm assuming this is what at least some of you here are thinking about doing. The idea itself is awesome (fully decentralized community). |
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