Steemit how can this thing be workable long term?

[traderman]

Hey, look, another newly registered acc bashing Steem.

Steemit is another shitcoin that was hyped so poor souls get scammed with the get rich quick idea just like ethereum did.  Wake the F up people.

[1714825508]

1714825508

[dwgscale11]

Hey, look, another newly registered acc bashing Steem.

Steemit is another shitcoin that was hyped so poor souls get scammed with the get rich quick idea just like ethereum did.  Wake the F up people.

You are just another delusional victim.  Good luck gambling on a hyped scam.  Hope you get your tesla with a "steem" vanity plate like you're dreaming of on your $500 investment in a shit coin. Lmao

[noobtrader]

Note he was forced to remain invested and 50% can only be cashed out over a 2 year period.

nevermind if he can withdraw 50.000 usd everyweek,  he still richer than me in just few month...  i hope he make a good use of his money.   

[iamnotback]

Note he was forced to remain invested and 50% can only be cashed out over a 2 year period.

nevermind if he can withdraw 50.000 usd everyweek,  he still richer than me in just few month...  i hope he make a good use of his money.  

I mean he is forced to remain silent, go soft, and (by doing that lend) support to a project which intentionally misleads its user base and attempts to place its investors in a jail to force them to become menial laborers (content curators), because he compromised his values for money.

In short, he has no more ethical high ground any more. Which he sold for a few $millions (assuming he can cash out before it collapses).

He can not criticize any thing I choose to do on my project. I will remind him he already sold he ethical standing to the devil. He has lead the way and shown all of us that we should do what ever we can to maximize the money we can get, regardless of ethics.

Btw, I salute him. I am an anarchist. More power to him. I hope this is the end of his (or let's say Monero's community) moralizing crap. Altcoins are not church. Instamines, premines, stealthmines, PoShit-Stake consensus systems, and what ever any one wants to do. Let them all suffer the free market outcome of their choices.

r0ach and I warned about Ethereum in the Ethereum Paradox thread. Smooth was conspicuously absent from that thread. I never saw smooth heavily criticise Ethereum. Yet those of us who did, were correct. smooth was all over Dash like flies on honey. Obviously because it was the competitor to his Monero project.

I've learned that humans are always tied to their vested interests, and I suppose that includes myself also.

[noobtrader]

yes i understand  
locking the fund also enable the show to go on for few more years as it attract more noob like me LOL

EDIT: i do really considering making account at steem and make insulting post about monero so ppl who hate monero can vote my blog...
 LOOLLLL

EDIT2 :: uh maybe not... it will make me look like these https://steemd.com/@dnaleor

Note he was forced to remain invested and 50% can only be cashed out over a 2 year period.

nevermind if he can withdraw 50.000 usd everyweek,  he still richer than me in just few month...  i hope he make a good use of his money.  

I mean he is forced to remain silent, go soft, and (by doing that lend) support to a project which intentionally misleads its user base and attempts to place its investors in a jail to force them to become menial laborers (content curators), because he compromised his values for money.

In short, he has no more ethical high ground any more. Which he sold for a few $millions (assuming he can cash out before it collapses).

He can not criticize any thing I choose to do on my project. I will remind him he already sold he ethical standing to the devil. He has lead the way and shown all of us that we should do what ever we can to maximize the money we can get, regardless of ethics.

Btw, I salute him. I am an anarchist. More power to him. I hope this is the end of his moralizing crap.

[iamnotback]

Steemit's white paper explains the design intentionally tricks users into doing more work than they will be paid for:

Steem weighs payouts proportional to n​² (n squared) the amount of Steem Power voting for a post.

The impact of this voting and payout distribution is to offer large bounties for good content while still rewarding smaller players for their long-tail contribution.

The economic effect of this is similar to a lottery where people over-estimate their probability of getting votes and thus do more work than the expected value of their reward and thereby maximize the total amount of work performed in service of the community. The fact that everyone “wins something” plays on the same psychology that casinos use to keep people gambling. In other words, small rewards help reinforce the idea that it is possible to earn bigger rewards.

Let's build a social (i.e. "feel good") network by abusing our users. Yeah that is a great idea! @dantheman you are the man Dan. Brilliant ideas! I dare say you must be a genius.

Brilliant minds congregate together:



The guy on the right is the lead developer of Storj. You can review his brilliant design in a discussion he and I had recently.

The seated guy on the left is the one Bruce Wanker talks about.

[chryspano]

Steemit's white paper explains the design intentionally tricks users into doing more work than they will be paid for:

Steem weighs payouts proportional to n​² (n squared) the amount of Steem Power voting for a post.

The impact of this voting and payout distribution is to offer large bounties for good content while still rewarding smaller players for their long-tail contribution.

The economic effect of this is similar to a lottery where people over-estimate their probability of getting votes and thus do more work than the expected value of their reward and thereby maximize the total amount of work performed in service of the community. The fact that everyone “wins something” plays on the same psychology that casinos use to keep people gambling. In other words, small rewards help reinforce the idea that it is possible to earn bigger rewards.

Let's build a social (i.e. "feel good") network by abusing our users. Yeah that is a great idea! @dantheman you are the man Dan. Brilliant ideas! I dare say you must be a genius.

Brilliant minds congregate together:



The guy on the right is the lead developer of Storj. You can review his brilliant design in a discussion he and I had recently.

The seated guy on the left is the one Bruce Wanker talks about.

more nonsense...

[chryspano]

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

What part of user testing by not introducing my own knowledge do you, Dan, Ned and the rest of the boyz not understand about how to build great user interfaces.

This has nothing to do with "great user intefaces" it has to do only with your suspicius behaviour.

You've obviously never worked in a commercial software development company for average user facing applications and websites. I have. I have created million user products for the average folks. You apparently don't know that every major social network runs tests with average users so they can find the rough spots in their user interfaces.

I like how authoritative(and wrong) your assumptions are but for another time you are trying to dodge here.

Admit it when you are wrong:

Stop posting nonsense, and irrelevant links and info, I made it red bold for you in case your eye vision is not that good. You are cornered and you are spending time with nonsense until everyone forgets about your bs. Btw it was about time that dwgscale11 guy to show up, did you call for reinforcements? is he part of the 1000 people/connections you have and supposedly would sybil attack STEEM?

It would be more efficient for you and everyone else in the forum if you opened a moderated thread and expressed your concerns and criticism there in a valid way, that's what I would expect from a supposed "smart" guy like you to do, but instead, you choose to run around every stupid trollish thread like a panicked headless chicken, messing your posts with every other crap. The art of proper FUDing and Trolling I guess... Master!

^^^ You religiously avoid to to give an explanation to your... "behaviour"

[forzendiablo]

STEEM too expenive now, we have missed the train guys

move along

[iamnotback]

The technical and design errors in Steemit keep piling up (just read my posts over the past 3 pages of this thread):

Steemit's PoW incorporates signing into the PoW for the public key that will receive the coinbase block reward, so as to force the miner to have real-time access to the private key for each nonce attempted.

Daniel Larimer/Bitshares et. al claim some benefits which are explained at the following references:

https://steem.io/documentation/consensus/#mining-algorithm
https://steem.io/SteemWhitePaper.pdf#page=23

I remembered I had read something about non-outsourceable PoW in the past (perhaps also on Vitalik's blog) but I remember it has being more complex and unworkable so someone helped me find these old resources which I also remember having seen before and there is proof because I posted there (first one well before any possible sighting on Vitalik's Ethereum blog):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309073.20
https://bitslog.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/theoretical-and-practical-nonoutsourceable-puzzles/

The first one from Andrew Miller makes the valid point that if you kill all pools, then you force consolidation (centralization) of mining hashrate into to mining farms in order to control variance costs.

Note that Steemit is only using PoW to select one of the 19 witness for the main DPoS consensus algorithm:

With Steem, block production is done in rounds. Each round 21 witnesses are selected to create and sign blocks of transactions. Nineteen (19) of these witnesses are selected by approval voting, one is selected by a computational proof-of-work, and...

[CoinHoarder]

Tonight her sister signed up, but instead of the promised $10, she only received 5 SP (Steem Power) with an estimated value of "$3.85".

----snip other valid points I can't rebutt----

Lol

You are complaining because instead of $10 she "only" recieved 5 SP x $3.85 = $19.25?

The user interface said the estimate value was $3.85. Thanks for reiterating how horrible the user interface is that it doesn't even make it clear that the "estimate value" displayed is per Steam Power unit and not the total balance.

As if a woman is going to multiply the $3.85 by the number of Steam Power units. As I said, this site is not designed for the average person.

There was no way I was going to go look up the value of Steem tokens nor put any effort into translating the user interface for the ladies. I was testing it as if they would not have my assistance.

Remember the golden rule that user interface misunderstandings are always your problem, not the users'.

Do you have any clue how many man-hours Facebook has into user interface testing with live users. And yet you toddlers think you can create a social network to compete with the big boys before you even learn to crawl.

Rather than show the current price, which is subject to huge swings and fluctuation, it shows the value being based on a 10 day average of the STEEM price.

This is meant to give a more accurate estimate of what the tokens are worth. It is off quite a bit now because STEEM has been pumped pretty hard the last few days. A correction seems to be happening, so the value should be more accurate after the market settles down a bit.

Fwiw... I may be off on the 10 days thing.. Maybe its a week... it is something like that, I can't remember.

[CoinHoarder]

STEEM too expenive now, we have missed the train guys

move along

Pretty much, hence the anti-steem crusade. Jelly donuts for all!

[iamnotback]

Stop posting...

Lol, you bagholders have your SP locked up for 2 years and the price is declining. And so you want me to stop posting the truth. Brouhaha.

I warned you.

STEEM too expenive now, we have missed the train guys

move along

Pretty much, hence the anti-steem crusade. Jelly donuts for all!

But even you recently admitted you didn't invest any of your money into Steem. You are just extracting money from it like everyone else who is smart.

I don't think you'd be willing to invest and lock up your money for 2 years?

Btw, I will try to explain to you sometime why my history with Dan from 2013 in this forum, causes me to expect that he will produce economic models for designs which are Communist, Fascist, and/or Socialist. He has this mindset that he can control the aggregate with a global model enforced on the block chain. I remember one of his ideas from 2013 was to pay everyone an interest rate payment. I explained to him how stupid that is for a crypto-currency. I also explained to him that reputation leads to centralization. Etc.. Of course he was hard-headed and he never relented. And we argued. Charles Hoskinson couldn't even deal with him.

[iamnotback]

Dude, what exactly do you mean when you say corporate controlled blockchain and that he controls all the users. Can you elaborate on that? What power to they have? Would steem still work if dan an ned were hit by a bus tomorrow? This seem to be genuine cause for concerns indeed.

Click the link:

PoS isn't trustless and it requires centralized control. Steemit's block chain is DPoS.

Even Steem's whitepaper admits it (Freudian slip?):

Consensus in Steem

Conceptually, the consensus algorithm adopted by Steem is similar to the consensus algorithm adopted by companies throughout the world.

But click my link for the thorough details.

[dwgscale11]

Wait, you cant cash out for 2 years?!!?!??! L:OLLOLOLOLOLO!OL!O!LO!L!O!L@KO!K@O!

[iamnotback]

Wait, you cant cash out for 2 years?!!?!??! L:OLLOLOLOLOLO!OL!O!LO!L!O!L@KO!K@O!

What rock you been sleeping under. No you can't. You are locked into the Steem Power playjailground for 2 years and required to do remedial community service labor of curation to get your maximum ROI.

I couldn't make it any funnier if I was making this shit up. It's actually true.

I am hoping someone will make a Bruce Wanker video on this.

[CoinHoarder]

But even you recently admitted you didn't invest any of your money into Steem. You are just extracting money from it like everyone else who is smart.

I don't think you'd be willing to invest and lock up your money for 2 years?

That is correct, I did not invest any money in STEEM. I earned my way in by posting and curating content.

I did however buy STEEM and power it up into STEEM power with the STEEM DOLLARS that I earned from said content creation and citation. Why you you ask?

To me it is play money, and it is inflating at about  the same rate Bitcoin did for its first 8 years. Thus, if Bitcoin (and Litecoin, etc) can survive that then I think it is possible for Steem to survive it too. That gives Steem 8 years to figure out a more sustainable model. I think it is even more possible for Steem to sustain that ibflation, because I think it is growing exponentually faster than Bitcoin is. Or, at least recenttrends indicate that it will.

I agree with Smooth on this... no one can tell the future. Although the economics look bad now, there are ways that they can be improved. I previously mentioned paid advertising, but there are other ways as well. For one, Dan is currently developing a Steem marketplace which could also bring in lucrative profits to make the model more sustainable.

I think it has more of a chance to succeed than other decentralized markets, because the Steem social networking platform's usership is exploding. I don't see that explosion slowing down anytime soon, as even though Steem is getting beat up on Bitcointalk.. most of that usership has never heard of Bitcointalk (or cryptocurrencies for that matter).

This gives any other profitable features built on top of the Steen social network a huge advantage versus other blockchains. Take for instance Open Bazaar, they are simply a decentralized marketplace and nothing more. Once Steel's marketplace is up and running, it will start out with exponentially more users than any of its competitors. Ebay is so successful because of its usership. Users will be attracted to the markets with the most buyers and sellers.

This advantage can be applied to other profitable features as well. The social network can be seen as the marketing arm of a Steem conglomerate. Steen could become the Google or Apple of blockchains, and that is why I reinvested what I earned in SD into SP. I may be willing to invest speculate in more SP with my own money based on the off chance that happens IF I had extra disposable money I didn't mind losing (which I don't at the moment.)

[chryspano]

Stop posting...

Lol, you bagholders have your SP locked up for 2 years and the price is declining. And so you want me to stop posting the truth. Brouhaha.

I warned you.

The great iamnotback after trying to bury my last post of this page in the previous one, now is resorting to out of context techniques? 

Nevermind, it's obvious you are in a difficult possition, you still didn't answer my post, no wonder you tried to bury it in the previus page, but I will agree that STEEM rising too fast too soon might not be that good afterall, so I will leave you to your "work", you might be offering a good service for the long term survivability of STEEM after all. 

[dwgscale11]

Wait, you cant cash out for 2 years?!!?!??! L:OLLOLOLOLOLO!OL!O!LO!L!O!L@KO!K@O!

What rock you been sleeping under. No you can't. You are locked into the Steem Power playjailground for 2 years and required to do remedial community service labor of curation to get your maximum ROI.

I couldn't make it any funnier if I was making this shit up. It's actually true.

I am hoping someone will make a Bruce Wanker video on this.

I didn't waste my time reading deeply into STEEM but that is fucking hilarious though! hahahaha

[iamnotback]

I did however buy STEEM and power it up into STEEM power with the STEEM DOLLARS that I earned from said content creation and citation. Why you you ask?

To me it is play money, and it is inflating at about  the same rate Bitcoin did for its first 8 years. Thus, if Bitcoin (and Litecoin, etc) can survive that then I think it is possible for Steem to survive it too. That gives Steem 8 years to figure out a more sustainable model. I think it is even more possible for Steem to sustain that ibflation, because I think it is growing exponentually faster than Bitcoin is. Or, at least recenttrends indicate that it will.

I agree with Smooth on this... no one can tell the future. Although the economics look bad now, there are ways that they can be improved. I previously mentioned paid advertising, but there are other ways as well. For one, Dan is currently developing a Steem marketplace which could also bring in lucrative profits to make the model more sustainable.

I think it has more of a chance to succeed than other decentralized markets, because the Steem social networking platform's usership is exploding. I don't see that explosion slowing down anytime soon, as even though Steem is getting beat up on Bitcointalk.. most of that usership has never heard of Bitcointalk (or cryptocurrencies for that matter).

This gives any other profitable features built on top of the Steen social network a huge advantage versus other blockchains. Take for instance Open Bazaar, they are simply a decentralized marketplace and nothing more. Once Steel's marketplace is up and running, it will start out with exponentially more users than any of its competitors. Ebay is so successful because of its usership. Users will be attracted to the markets with the most buyers and sellers.

This advantage can be applied to other profitable features as well. The social network can be seen as the marketing arm of a Steem conglomerate. Steen could become the Google or Apple of blockchains, and that is why I reinvested what I earned in SD into SP. I may be willing to invest speculate in more SP with my own money based on the off chance that happens IF I had extra disposable money I didn't mind losing (which I don't at the moment.)

I drilled a hole in that sort of fantasy already (see below). So you've confirmed that the business model I deduced for Steem (see below), is the one Dan is working on:

The whitepaper contains perhaps a hint as to the long-term plan:

Solving the Cryptocurrency Liquidation Problem

A currency that is difficult to use or impossible to sell has little value. Someone who comes across $1.00 worth of Bitcoin will discover that it costs more than $1.00 to sell that Bitcoin. They have to create an account with an exchange, perform KYC validation, and pay fees. Small amounts of cryptocurrency are like small change that people are unwilling to bend over to pick up.

Merchants give users a way to quickly convert their cryptocurrency into tangible goods and services. Merchants need a currency pegged to their unit of account, normally dollars. Accepting a volatile currency introduces significant accounting overhead.

Merchants will accept any currency if it increases their sales. Having a large user base with a stable currency such as SMD lowers the barrier to entry for merchants. The presence of merchants improves the system by creating an off-ramp for users to exit the system without going to the trouble of using an exchange.

So it appears "Dan and Ned" (do they do anal?) want to try to amass enough users holding SP tokens (because users are forced to receive 50% of their payouts in SP tokens which require 2 years to cash out), to incentivize merchants to sell to these users.

The flaw in their plan is network effects are inhibited/retarded with a closed, persmissioned block chain and ecosystem. Network effects are enabled by permissionless, trustless systems. Currency can't be built as a corporation.

Dan is a funny kook. He believes he can build a worldwide currency enclosed inside a proof-of-stake corporation with an 80% stealth mine for the insiders.

Dan seems to like jails. To be a full participant in his proof-of-stake playjailground, you are forced to lockup your investment for two years in SP tokens.

I hope jails are nice to Dan. He seems want them all around him.

Edit: I have figured out their business plan. They obviously are hoping that the commerce which must take place in STEEM (not Steem Power) tokens will pay for the costs of rewarding content creation, via the 9X greater debasement of STEEM vs. SP. This is how they hope that investors do not end up paying for the content ongoing. So the income producing model is apparently the commerce they expect to take place on STEEM once they have a large enough userbase who have plenty of Steem Power tokens to cash out every week to STEEM tokens.

The problem I see with this model in addition to the criticism I made above, is that the commerce won't be a large proportion of the Steem Power, because users will prefer to cash out to fiat or Bitcoin because the merchant ecosystem will be too small. Again my point is there is no way Dan can scale the currency to a diverse ecosystem with it being a corporate controlled block chain (DPoS) and where his company controls all the users. Ecosystems need very diverse network effects and unlimited degrees-of-freedom in order to maximize rate of diversification and scaling.