VLT | Veltor | Donar Network | Minimalism.

[harvw]

The decision to run an ICO for 5-20mil € (dude, do you have any sense of reality left? 5-20 mil, for what? a yobit shitcoin?) is the worst move "jason" could do. And just devaluating users' position by 95% is an absolute asshole move.

Glad I sold at least half my position a 148k, so at least I haven't lost anything.
I'll take it as a reminder to always sell when prices are good and never get attached to a shitcoin.

5-20mil €, that guy is killing me  

I guess this is a lesson we will all have to learn from this.

[legday]

The decision to run an ICO for 5-20mil € (dude, do you have any sense of reality left? 5-20 mil, for what? a yobit shitcoin?) is the worst move "jason" could do. And just devaluating users' position by 95% is an absolute asshole move.

Glad I sold at least half my position a 148k, so at least I haven't lost anything.
I'll take it as a reminder to always sell when prices are good and never get attached to a shitcoin.

5-20mil €, that guy is killing me  

I guess this is a lesson we will all have to learn from this.

Thank god for scammers for teaching us lessons. where is that piece of shit Max? I wanna shake his hand
Max, its okay. you can come out of the hole now

[KKbit]

The decision to run an ICO for 5-20mil € (dude, do you have any sense of reality left? 5-20 mil, for what? a yobit shitcoin?) is the worst move "jason" could do. And just devaluating users' position by 95% is an absolute asshole move.

Glad I sold at least half my position a 148k, so at least I haven't lost anything.
I'll take it as a reminder to always sell when prices are good and never get attached to a shitcoin.

5-20mil €, that guy is killing me  

I guess this is a lesson we will all have to learn from this.

Thank god for scammers for teaching us lessons. where is that piece of shit Max? I wanna shake his hand
Max, its okay. you can come out of the hole now

He is in the slack playing the cult card with the "us" vs "them fudsters" and how the faithfull will have all the glory.

[legday]

The decision to run an ICO for 5-20mil € (dude, do you have any sense of reality left? 5-20 mil, for what? a yobit shitcoin?) is the worst move "jason" could do. And just devaluating users' position by 95% is an absolute asshole move.

Glad I sold at least half my position a 148k, so at least I haven't lost anything.
I'll take it as a reminder to always sell when prices are good and never get attached to a shitcoin.

5-20mil €, that guy is killing me  

I guess this is a lesson we will all have to learn from this.

Thank god for scammers for teaching us lessons. where is that piece of shit Max? I wanna shake his hand
Max, its okay. you can come out of the hole now

He is in the slack playing the cult card with the "us" vs "them fudsters" and how the faithfull will have all the glory.

we should give him a break. poor Max.. people he scammed won't even give him 20 million dollars....

[cryptohunter]

Let's put a time limit on it to come back to the community with a better offer.

How about 24 hours. You know the longer it goes on people will just leave here and forget they just got fucked over and not stick around to help crush the ICO.

I think give them 24 hours to come back with a sensible way to bring in ICO funds and not destroy the support they have here.

If after 24 hours they are saying nothing or 5% still let's open start the scam thread on them and use previous history to leverage this into making sure they are pariahs to the entire crypto community for good.

Enough of these swap the rules around and not worry about destroying other peoples investment then saying tough shit you never paid us you just invested in our project? WTF investing in your shit pushes up the price and the value of the tokens you give yourself for free.

Is there something wrong with every other part of their brain accept the coding part?

So shall we say 24 hours now. Full and final best offer they are going to make to the community.

I understand if they really made 20M USD on ico then demanding 50% could be seen as too much but if they only raised 5M then 50% is good.
What in the world makes them think they can raise 20M? i mean 5 seems to be more realistic but even then that seems pretty high.

Of course with a rampant bunch of scammed vlt holders crushing it then it will hardly raise anything.

Slack don't mean shit when it come to raising a good ICO. This board is the major place for that. Explaining to a few people on slack is not like explaining to the rest of this board why they should trust them after they here about the actions here.
 

[legday]

Let's put a time limit on it to come back to the community with a better offer.

How about 24 hours. You know the longer it goes on people will just leave here and forget they just got fucked over and not stick around to help crush the ICO.

I think give them 24 hours to come back with a sensible way to bring in ICO funds and not destroy the support they have here.

If after 24 hours they are saying nothing or 5% still let's open start the scam thread on them and use previous history to leverage this into making sure they are pariahs to the entire crypto community for good.

Enough of these swap the rules around and not worry about destroying other peoples investment then saying tough shit you never paid us you just invested in our project? WTF investing in your shit pushes up the price and the value of the tokens you give yourself for free.

Is there something wrong with every other part of their brain accept the coding part?

So shall we say 24 hours now. Full and final best offer they are going to make to the community.

I understand if they really made 20M USD on ico then demanding 50% could be seen as too much but if they only raised 5M then 50% is good.
What in the world makes them think they can raise 20M? i mean 5 seems to be more realistic but even then that seems pretty high.

Of course with a rampant bunch of scammed vlt holders crushing it then it will hardly raise anything.

Slack don't mean shit when it come to raising a good ICO. This board is the major place for that. Explaining to a few people on slack is not like explaining to the rest of this board why they should trust them after they here about the actions here.
 

sounds good to me. Lets open up a thread in 24 hours, with all the facts and pictures of these guys, including that guy with pantyhose on his head (sick bastard)
on that thread we can also figure out how to get articles published about what happened here. Maybe even someone from law enforcement agency will pick it up and look into it.

[o48o]

You fudders do realize that it would benefit everyone to have a successful ico? I am baffled why do you guys want to sabotage it by throwing scam accusations?

It's not FUD, it's economics, there is no way they can collect any acceptable amount of money after what they did, their only option would be if the swap is for something near the 50%. How will any potential investor decide to put money after reading in this thread and learning about how they changed the rules after some people invested money already into their promises? If projects with awesome team and path sometimes don't get more than 1M, how can they expect something between 5 and 20? It's doomed to fail unless they start thinking of something near 50%

You seriously don't see the difference of "investing" to an anonymous coin without any roadmap and investing to foundation via ico that is handled trough lawyers?

[legday]

oh.. one of them woke up   

[KKbit]

Let's put a time limit on it to come back to the community with a better offer.

How about 24 hours. You know the longer it goes on people will just leave here and forget they just got fucked over and not stick around to help crush the ICO.

I think give them 24 hours to come back with a sensible way to bring in ICO funds and not destroy the support they have here.

If after 24 hours they are saying nothing or 5% still let's open start the scam thread on them and use previous history to leverage this into making sure they are pariahs to the entire crypto community for good.

Enough of these swap the rules around and not worry about destroying other peoples investment then saying tough shit you never paid us you just invested in our project? WTF investing in your shit pushes up the price and the value of the tokens you give yourself for free.

Is there something wrong with every other part of their brain accept the coding part?

So shall we say 24 hours now. Full and final best offer they are going to make to the community.

I understand if they really made 20M USD on ico then demanding 50% could be seen as too much but if they only raised 5M then 50% is good.
What in the world makes them think they can raise 20M? i mean 5 seems to be more realistic but even then that seems pretty high.

Of course with a rampant bunch of scammed vlt holders crushing it then it will hardly raise anything.

Slack don't mean shit when it come to raising a good ICO. This board is the major place for that. Explaining to a few people on slack is not like explaining to the rest of this board why they should trust them after they here about the actions here.
 

I felt insulted with that 5% offer to old investors and the dumping action before, that lead VLT value to nothing like we were all retards and would not realise what was going on.

But I know many are still seeing if they can somehow make this work to dimish their losses.

And for those I'm willing to see what they can bring before that 24h mark and see if the price somehow gets near previous dump.

[legday]

ICO won't work and they know it. I don't believe they are that stupid.
Can you imagine what will happen during ICO launch? All people will talk about is scam and they will present facts after facts. I mean these guys have very rich resume when it comes to ripping off investors. You will hardly see anything else discussed on that thread.  

[cryptohunter]

You know they certainly wouldn't want Gleb brought in on this too. That guy can find out any weasel antics you've ever done.

[kaene]

Let me ask it again, if you are throwing numbers like 50% what are your numbers based on? I mean everyone in here just seem to want more without even trying to tell how would they do it.

The price per VLT when they decided to change the rules from 1:1 to 20:1 was around $1 (and it was above that for the most time since April, where it has had some volume, so where we can assume most of investors bought), with an evaluation of $5M, VLT should account for a minimum of 10% to match that price, so something around 20% would send a message of "we do care and want to protect those who believed in us in first place".

If they continue with the ICO, the percentage will be a reflection of how much they care about the community, anything lower than 10% means "we are greedy as fuck and we don't give a shit about all those who supported us when we had nothing to show for", 10% to 20% means "we are greedy but understand that without you we are risking not making tons of cash" and above 20% means "we need money to make our project a reality with you" ...

[kaene]

You fudders do realize that it would benefit everyone to have a successful ico? I am baffled why do you guys want to sabotage it by throwing scam accusations?

It's not FUD, it's economics, there is no way they can collect any acceptable amount of money after what they did, their only option would be if the swap is for something near the 50%. How will any potential investor decide to put money after reading in this thread and learning about how they changed the rules after some people invested money already into their promises? If projects with awesome team and path sometimes don't get more than 1M, how can they expect something between 5 and 20? It's doomed to fail unless they start thinking of something near 50%

You seriously don't see the difference of "investing" to an anonymous coin without any roadmap and investing to foundation via ico that is handled trough lawyers?

Investing to a foundation via ICO that is handled though lawyers doesn't guarantee the team will deliver anything, so yeah, essentially I don't see a difference from the investors point of view (and not an anonymous coin, the team "had" a roadmap and they revealed their identities)

[Hunterwolfie]

Here are some associated companies and organizations. Hopefully all would be made aware of the ponzi scam, insider training, dilution scheme, etc... (I do not think any of these organizations would want to risk their reputation on these asshats.)

Now as I understand it, Alex, Max and Antoine are the main circle, as they collide with the same companies and names. Alex and Max actually both went to the same university and where they met.

Max Wolter
Reborn/Alantor Organizations
max.wolter@reborn.lu
info@reborn.lu
info@alantor.com

http://reborn.lu/


Alexander Bremin
Chief Technology Officer at ACTinBlack SARL (he took the website down this morning)
info@actinblack.com
info@mssdefence.com

Mechanical Engineering Student at U Lux. Will be notifying his department as well.

...

Like I have said before, the main people behind the project are me and Alex. I do not work for Reborn anymore.

Antoine is a person I met through work and who offered his help with marketing.
Julien is the same and was thinking about looking at the code to possibly contribute.
Sergii is actually the first developer to contribute some code to the repository on Github.

All three of them have nothing to do with the leadership of the project and with the decision on the ICO. They were volunteers, like all of us, that were considering contributing some of their free time to a project they thought was interesting.

Bringing them into this is a new low point, even if I doubt someone will care about your baseless accusations. It is way out of line and if you have any decency as a human being, you will remove the information about them from the thread.

oh look.....

the greedy little faggot who just fucked over his investors is talking about "human decency"....

 

[cryptohunter]

Here are some associated companies and organizations. Hopefully all would be made aware of the ponzi scam, insider training, dilution scheme, etc... (I do not think any of these organizations would want to risk their reputation on these asshats.)

Now as I understand it, Alex, Max and Antoine are the main circle, as they collide with the same companies and names. Alex and Max actually both went to the same university and where they met.

Max Wolter
Reborn/Alantor Organizations
max.wolter@reborn.lu
info@reborn.lu
info@alantor.com

http://reborn.lu/


Alexander Bremin
Chief Technology Officer at ACTinBlack SARL (he took the website down this morning)
info@actinblack.com
info@mssdefence.com

Mechanical Engineering Student at U Lux. Will be notifying his department as well.

...

Like I have said before, the main people behind the project are me and Alex. I do not work for Reborn anymore.

Antoine is a person I met through work and who offered his help with marketing.
Julien is the same and was thinking about looking at the code to possibly contribute.
Sergii is actually the first developer to contribute some code to the repository on Github.

All three of them have nothing to do with the leadership of the project and with the decision on the ICO. They were volunteers, like all of us, that were considering contributing some of their free time to a project they thought was interesting.

Bringing them into this is a new low point, even if I doubt someone will care about your baseless accusations. It is way out of line and if you have any decency as a human being, you will remove the information about them from the thread.

It's unfathomable to me how people here can applaud this kind of behaviour, going after people in their private lives, and somehow think they are on the right side of this story. It's disgraceful and I'm deeply disappointed in the community for supporting this attitude even for a second.

lol your actions probably caused a lot of people to lose a lot of their investment in their private lives....as things stand

you have obviously no experience of this board.

you will see that many people will care about the prior treatment of your investors and supporters here

this board can be an amazing asset or a major nightmare

simply offer something sensible else regardless of what you believe the crypto arena is now closed to you

I fear your disappointment is only just starting.

Are you determined to hold to your 5% offer? if so just say so now so we can waste no further time here and start the ball rolling to ensure the ICO and future projects from any of these people is now going to be met with huge resistance from the outset.

Or are you starting to realise it is better to offer a more sensible share to those that supported you and your project from the start?

[KKbit]

lol your actions probably caused a lot of people to lose a lot of their investment in their private lives....as things stand
you have obviously no experience of this board.
you will see that many people will care about the prior treatment of your investors and supporters here
this board can be an amazing asset or a major nightmare
simply offer something sensible else regardless of what you believe the crypto arena is now closed to you
I fear your disappointment is only just starting.

The moment you, all of you, started attacking and applauding an attack on people that have nothing to do with what is happening, you lost any moral high ground that you thought you might have had. I don't negotiat

You talking about moral man? Please have some shame in your damn face.

[cryptohunter]

lol your actions probably caused a lot of people to lose a lot of their investment in their private lives....as things stand
you have obviously no experience of this board.
you will see that many people will care about the prior treatment of your investors and supporters here
this board can be an amazing asset or a major nightmare
simply offer something sensible else regardless of what you believe the crypto arena is now closed to you
I fear your disappointment is only just starting.

The moment you, all of you, started attacking and applauding an attack on people that have nothing to do with what is happening, you lost any moral high ground that you thought you might have had.

Wrong. attacking those trying to scam people and those associated or considering supporting such actions is the correct action to take.

You can't really be debating moral high ground right now can you?

Best to focus on the main issue and admit that you are not going to get away with reducing peoples share from 100% to 5%

You don't promise one thing then change it that is called telling a lie, deception and scamming.

So again are you sticking to your 5% or are you going to come up with something more sensible? yes or no?

You do realise I hope that you don't get to put the genie back in the bottle once a full out scam thread is started about this project and the people involved it will not really be reversible. Every detail of your past will be gone through with a fine comb there are scam hunters here than can turn up stuff you have forgotten about.

If you have a good project and the skill to execute it then I suggest you wise up and offer something of reasonable worth to the community.

Once you are a pariah that is it there is no second chances anything you ever do and it all gets dredged up again over and over.

Nobody has even started looking into you guys properly yet at all. If you have any other skeletons they will be use for maximum impact too. This is not a threat this is a fact. If you have previous history of stunts like this then they will be put under the microscope for all to analyse in detail.

Do the right thing and offer something sensible people are tired of getting scammed here and they are quick to hand out the scam tag especially to those that say 1.1 then reduce that to a 20th and cause a market crash.

Projects and people have been made pariahs here for far far less i can assure you.

[jeewaka]

Here are some associated companies and organizations. Hopefully all would be made aware of the ponzi scam, insider training, dilution scheme, etc... (I do not think any of these organizations would want to risk their reputation on these asshats.)

Now as I understand it, Alex, Max and Antoine are the main circle, as they collide with the same companies and names. Alex and Max actually both went to the same university and where they met.

Max Wolter
Reborn/Alantor Organizations
max.wolter@reborn.lu
info@reborn.lu
info@alantor.com

http://reborn.lu/


Alexander Bremin
Chief Technology Officer at ACTinBlack SARL (he took the website down this morning)
info@actinblack.com
info@mssdefence.com

Mechanical Engineering Student at U Lux. Will be notifying his department as well.

...

Like I have said before, the main people behind the project are me and Alex. I do not work for Reborn anymore.

Antoine is a person I met through work and who offered his help with marketing.
Julien is the same and was thinking about looking at the code to possibly contribute.
Sergii is actually the first developer to contribute some code to the repository on Github.

All three of them have nothing to do with the leadership of the project and with the decision on the ICO. They were volunteers, like all of us, that were considering contributing some of their free time to a project they thought was interesting. Bringing them into this is a new low point, even if I doubt someone will care about your baseless accusations. It is way out of line and if you have any decency as a human being, you will remove the information about them from the thread.

It's unfathomable to me how people here can applaud this kind of behavior, going after people in their private lives, and somehow think they are on the right side of this story. It's disgraceful and I'm deeply disappointed in the community for supporting this attitude even for a second.

Just curious, so the original dev has left?
I thinking the whole community is really confused.
Since the ICO you are planning does not give 1 to 1 for holders of VLT, like almost all the other projects did, why hijack a project that survived only because of the community that believed in the original vision of the original dev?
Also you seemed to be appalled by the communities backlash, which you inflamed it by being very rude.

[rlucas90]

HEY! Lets back off for a second here. Nobody is more mad than me, I have a huge amount of Veltor that is now worth practically nothing. I have been talking to Max and he is willing to negotiate but only if all the threats and chasing after related people stops so lets give him a while and see.

[cryptohunter]

There will be no more engagement with anyone making threats from my side, and I will encourage everyone else to do the same.

We will keep working on our vision in silence. There is no good reason to expose well intentioned people dedicating their free time to such abuse.

If there is reason to believe, at any time, that anyone unrelated to this situation is at real risk, we will shut down the whole project in a heartbeat.

List these threats you have received?

The strongest I see here are that you will be having your actions analysed. Is this a worrying threat to you?

If they are analysed at this point i assume you will become a pariah.

Why not open an reasonable dialogue with the community?

If you are willing to negotiate that is all the better for you and any future project you intend on releasing.

I hate whiny people who cry about getting threatened because factual accounts of their behaviour will be examined.

Going after? is this what analysing factual observable events is called.

If they were at risk (what they are at risk of nobody knows other than having their actions analysed) would not shutting it down inspire simply more interest in them since they could be seen as the cause of it getting shut down. You would be intentionally make it worse for these friends of yours?
Nobody seems interested in them.
You listed their names here, someone else relisted their names here? I see no interest in them further that that really at this point.

People only seem interested in getting a fair deal.

I mean these are genuine questions from some one that is only interested in appreciating your POV a little more and trying to understand your side of things.