[ANN] ICONOMI - Fund Management Platform

[BitBanksy]

Can somebody explain to me what the hell happened in the FirstBlood ICO?

https://steemit.com/first-blood/@hisnameisolllie/first-blood-raises-usd5-5m-in-10-seconds

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/54k11w/first_blood_the_power_hour_gate_why_did_first/?st=itlyvbkl&sh=c5e239c6

https://cointelegraph.com/news/ethereum-based-us-gaming-company-raises-6-mln-in-crowdsale

[Diplo]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Another question : Does this debit a holder's ICN account or their ICNX account?

Nice perk, thanks!

Hey Mal! Great to see you here too. 

[MalReynolds]

Hi Diplo!

OK, I'm confused.  ICONOMI has been very successful and has now gone over the 10,000 BTC mark.  Does this mean we are all now going to get both ICN and ICNX tokens, with the ICNX tokens being paid for by all donations over 10,000 BTC?

[btvGainer]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Who is 'We'  ?  
Iconomi ? The platform ? The service operator ? Cashila ?

Does anybody know what level is that ?
Serious question, mine costs me literally 0 EUR.

we means we the investors obviously.Visa shipping and other costs will be paid from ICO funds,I dont think ICONOMI needs to distribute visa cards to their token holders,Absolutely a futile exercise in my opinion

[HardwarePal]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Who is 'We'  ?  
Iconomi ? The platform ? The service operator ? Cashila ?

Does anybody know what level is that ?
Serious question, mine costs me literally 0 EUR.

we means we the investors obviously.Visa shipping and other costs will be paid from ICO funds,I dont think ICONOMI needs to distribute visa cards to their token holders,Absolutely a futile exercise in my opinion

Seems like you're butthurt

[Vinz421]

Hi Diplo!

OK, I'm confused.  ICONOMI has been very successful and has now gone over the 10,000 BTC mark.  Does this mean we are all now going to get both ICN and ICNX tokens, with the ICNX tokens being paid for by all donations over 10,000 BTC?

I don't think so. IMO, we won't get ICNX tokens for investing in the ICO, but ICN tokens will :
The platform itself is investing into its own performance.fund product, which means each ICN will also own a part of the fund on top of a part of the platform, thus making each ICN token worth more.

[HardwarePal]

Hi Diplo!

OK, I'm confused.  ICONOMI has been very successful and has now gone over the 10,000 BTC mark.  Does this mean we are all now going to get both ICN and ICNX tokens, with the ICNX tokens being paid for by all donations over 10,000 BTC?

I don't think so. IMO, we won't get ICNX tokens for investing in the ICO, but ICN tokens will :
The platform itself is investing into its own performance.fund product, which means each ICN will also own a part of the fund on top of a part of the platform, hence making each ICN token worth more.

Of what I have been reading the excess funds will be put into the performance fund.

So for example if they get 12000 BTC the 2000BTC will be running for the performance.index and we get 20% of the ROI in dividends.

[Vinz421]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Who is 'We'  ?  
Iconomi ? The platform ? The service operator ? Cashila ?

Does anybody know what level is that ?
Serious question, mine costs me literally 0 EUR.

we means we the investors obviously.Visa shipping and other costs will be paid from ICO funds,I dont think ICONOMI needs to distribute visa cards to their token holders,Absolutely a futile exercise in my opinion

Seems like your butthurt

Seems like his. 

He has a point, though. Considering that dividends will be opex free as long as there is remaining ICO money for Cashila to operate the platform, using ICO money to provide perks to some investors is a direct expenditure on everyone's dividends. If any.

[MrPresident]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Who is 'We'  ?  
Iconomi ? The platform ? The service operator ? Cashila ?

Does anybody know what level is that ?
Serious question, mine costs me literally 0 EUR.

we means we the investors obviously.Visa shipping and other costs will be paid from ICO funds,I dont think ICONOMI needs to distribute visa cards to their token holders,Absolutely a futile exercise in my opinion

Seems like your butthurt

Seems like his.  

He has a point, though. Considering that dividends will be opex free as long as there is remaining ICO money for Cashila to operate the platform, using ICO money to provide perks to some investors is a direct expenditure on everyone's dividends. If any.

dude... even so, like 20 bucks a card is a total of $5,580.00 of 6,500,000.00, a VERY small microscopic portion.
...sounds more like he may not be qualified for the card, and a bit of jealousy showing.  

Most likely the Visa Tx's are a Cashila function, and therefore the funds may come from Cashila as an investment on their part.

[Vinz421]

Hi Diplo!

OK, I'm confused.  ICONOMI has been very successful and has now gone over the 10,000 BTC mark.  Does this mean we are all now going to get both ICN and ICNX tokens, with the ICNX tokens being paid for by all donations over 10,000 BTC?

I don't think so. IMO, we won't get ICNX tokens for investing in the ICO, but ICN tokens will :
The platform itself is investing into its own performance.fund product, which means each ICN will also own a part of the fund on top of a part of the platform, hence making each ICN token worth more.

Of what I have been reading the excess funds will be put into the performance fund.

So for example if they get 12000 BTC the 2000BTC will be running for the performance.index and we get 20% of the ROI in dividends.

Yup. Leads to an interesting question though : who decides what happens to the ROI of this platform-owned ICNX ? Does the ROI turn into dividends or does it have to stay on the fund to sustain growth ?
No way to vote for this AFAIK, whitepapers mentioned the only possible vote by token holders would be for changing the service operator.

[Vinz421]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Who is 'We'  ?  
Iconomi ? The platform ? The service operator ? Cashila ?

Does anybody know what level is that ?
Serious question, mine costs me literally 0 EUR.

we means we the investors obviously.Visa shipping and other costs will be paid from ICO funds,I dont think ICONOMI needs to distribute visa cards to their token holders,Absolutely a futile exercise in my opinion

Seems like your butthurt

Seems like his.  

He has a point, though. Considering that dividends will be opex free as long as there is remaining ICO money for Cashila to operate the platform, using ICO money to provide perks to some investors is a direct expenditure on everyone's dividends. If any.

dude... even so, like 20 bucks a card is a total of $5,580.00 of 6,500,000.00, a VERY small microscopic portion.
...sounds more like he may not be qualified for the card, and a bit of jealousy showing.  

Most likely the Visa Tx's are a Cashila function, and therefore the funds may come from Cashila as an investment on their part.

Completely agreed. But I gotta admit I'm a bit jealous too. Would have loved to brag with that black card.

[XbladeX]

....

Yup. Leads to an interesting question though : who decides what happens to the ROI of this platform-owned ICNX ? Does the ROI turn into dividends or does it have to stay on the fund to sustain growth ?
No way to vote for this AFAIK, whitepapers mentioned the only possible vote by token holders would be for changing the service operator.

I want self pumping circle ... 50% dividends 50% say in fund

at some point asset in fund will go over ICONOMI net worth if cryptocurrency will keep rising in long run

[Sharma]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Who is 'We'  ?  
Iconomi ? The platform ? The service operator ? Cashila ?

Does anybody know what level is that ?
Serious question, mine costs me literally 0 EUR.

we means we the investors obviously.Visa shipping and other costs will be paid from ICO funds,I dont think ICONOMI needs to distribute visa cards to their token holders,Absolutely a futile exercise in my opinion

Seems like your butthurt

Seems like his.  

He has a point, though. Considering that dividends will be opex free as long as there is remaining ICO money for Cashila to operate the platform, using ICO money to provide perks to some investors is a direct expenditure on everyone's dividends. If any.

I think ICONOMI can send virtual Visa card instead of physical card to save on shipping and other costs

[MoveCrypto]

Hi Diplo!

OK, I'm confused.  ICONOMI has been very successful and has now gone over the 10,000 BTC mark.  Does this mean we are all now going to get both ICN and ICNX tokens, with the ICNX tokens being paid for by all donations over 10,000 BTC?

I don't think so. IMO, we won't get ICNX tokens for investing in the ICO, but ICN tokens will :
The platform itself is investing into its own performance.fund product, which means each ICN will also own a part of the fund on top of a part of the platform, hence making each ICN token worth more.

Of what I have been reading the excess funds will be put into the performance fund.

So for example if they get 12000 BTC the 2000BTC will be running for the performance.index and we get 20% of the ROI in dividends.

Yup. Leads to an interesting question though : who decides what happens to the ROI of this platform-owned ICNX ? Does the ROI turn into dividends or does it have to stay on the fund to sustain growth ?
No way to vote for this AFAIK, whitepapers mentioned the only possible vote by token holders would be for changing the service operator.

There's 2 funds to begin with:

iconomi.index - tracks the ICNX index - takes around a 2% management fee (fee not yet set in stone) - freely tradeable tokens on exchanges

iconomi.performance - invests into new ICOs - takes around a 20% performance fee (fee not yet set in stone) - private fund which does not have tradeable tokens (only a "investment process" and "redemption process")   <-------------- This is the fund they said excess BTC is going into

Another question : Does this debit a holder's ICN account or their ICNX account?

Nice perk, thanks!

I'm also confused on how exactly the debit card works.  For example if I make a $200 swipe, what is happening behind the scenes?  I read these four related quotes from iconomi team, but I'm still confused on where the $200 is pulled from, and how that negative $200 is reflected in my crypto holdings

Can you expand on the ICONOMI debit card?
The ICONOMI debit card will be a Visa debit card, linked to your share of the ICONOMI investment funds. You will be able to use it on all Visa supported POS terminals and ATMs, enabling you to instantly reduce your share of ownership of the ICONOMI funds, 24/7. When a deduction is made with your ICONOMI debit card, a corresponding amount of your share of the ICONOMI fund(s) will be sold.
As a gesture of appreciation, all ICO participants will have the option to receive an exclusive “ICONOMI Founders’ Club” debit card. The card will be a debit Visa card with an unique design, available free of charge to investors who invested above a certain threshold and with a small fee to cover the shipping costs to all other ICO participants.

Buying and selling will be instant. For example, if you would’ve just swiped 200 USD with a debit card, we have to sell 200 USD worth of assets in your name. On the other hand, there will also be money flowing in with deposits. Therefore, we estimate that roughly 2-3% of all the assets will be exposed in “hot wallets” (not really in hot wallets, but on exchanges, because that’s where we’ll need crypto assets stored in order to have a sufficient liquidity-ensuring buffer).

It will be a debit card backed by assets on ICONOMI. If you will have investment in ICONOMI.index fund and you will swipe your card, then we'll sell your stake in the fund for as much as you swiped with the card. There will also be iOS and Android app with which you will be able to manage your card, spending and funds.

As an example: let's say you own certain amount of ICONOMI.index fund and you wanna book your flight ticket. You simple pay with ICONOMI card and for the amount requested we'll sell proportionate amount of your invested fund. Simple, straightforward, real time and available 24/7. Additionally there will be iPhone/Android app in which you will be able to monitor your spendings, set your limits etc. Kind of like Number26 if you know them.

Payment gateways? In that case, all VISA POS and VISA supported ATMs.

[MrPresident]

"We will cover all the costs of the VISA debit card (including issuing, shipping and membership costs) for the first year - it’s yours completely free!"

What are membership costs after the first year?

On the same level as any other VISA issued debit card. We will communicate details once we are closer to issuing the cards...

-Jaka Mele, ICONOMI

Who is 'We'  ?  
Iconomi ? The platform ? The service operator ? Cashila ?

Does anybody know what level is that ?
Serious question, mine costs me literally 0 EUR.

we means we the investors obviously.Visa shipping and other costs will be paid from ICO funds,I dont think ICONOMI needs to distribute visa cards to their token holders,Absolutely a futile exercise in my opinion

Seems like your butthurt

Seems like his.  

He has a point, though. Considering that dividends will be opex free as long as there is remaining ICO money for Cashila to operate the platform, using ICO money to provide perks to some investors is a direct expenditure on everyone's dividends. If any.

dude... even so, like 20 bucks a card is a total of $5,580.00 of 6,500,000.00, a VERY small microscopic portion.
...sounds more like he may not be qualified for the card, and a bit of jealousy showing.  

Most likely the Visa Tx's are a Cashila function, and therefore the funds may come from Cashila as an investment on their part.

Completely agreed. But I gotta admit I'm a bit jealous too. Would have loved to brag with that black card.

...You still have time! (sell the kids) hehe
... I think others will get it by just paying a small shipping fee or something was mentioned...

I'm not sure whether to frame it or actually carry it in my wallet to show off hehe
Will I use it? Hmmm...
I think I'm more likely to continue compounding earnings for awhile before I would.
(after testing it ofc) 

[Vinz421]

Hi Diplo!

OK, I'm confused.  ICONOMI has been very successful and has now gone over the 10,000 BTC mark.  Does this mean we are all now going to get both ICN and ICNX tokens, with the ICNX tokens being paid for by all donations over 10,000 BTC?

I don't think so. IMO, we won't get ICNX tokens for investing in the ICO, but ICN tokens will :
The platform itself is investing into its own performance.fund product, which means each ICN will also own a part of the fund on top of a part of the platform, hence making each ICN token worth more.

Of what I have been reading the excess funds will be put into the performance fund.

So for example if they get 12000 BTC the 2000BTC will be running for the performance.index and we get 20% of the ROI in dividends.

Yup. Leads to an interesting question though : who decides what happens to the ROI of this platform-owned ICNX ? Does the ROI turn into dividends or does it have to stay on the fund to sustain growth ?
No way to vote for this AFAIK, whitepapers mentioned the only possible vote by token holders would be for changing the service operator.

There's 2 funds to begin with:

iconomi.index - tracks the ICNX index - takes around a 2% management fee (fee not yet set in stone) - freely tradeable tokens on exchanges

iconomi.performance - invests into new ICOs - takes around a 20% performance fee (fee not yet set in stone) - private fund which does not have tradeable tokens (only a "investment process" and "redemption process")   <-------------- This is the fund they said excess BTC is going into

Hmm I see. Thanks. That explains a lot.
So that means ROI of the platform-owned tokens of the performance.fund will be paid in dividends no matter what  ?  
Seems like I have a lot of homework to do on ETFs now..

Another question : Does this debit a holder's ICN account or their ICNX account?

Nice perk, thanks!

I'm also confused on how exactly the debit card works.  For example if I make a $1000 swipe, what is happening behind the scenes?

It was mentioned they would just put a sell order on some of your assets for $1000.
Now wht happens if the order isn't fulfilled  ?

[MrPresident]

Hi Diplo!

OK, I'm confused.  ICONOMI has been very successful and has now gone over the 10,000 BTC mark.  Does this mean we are all now going to get both ICN and ICNX tokens, with the ICNX tokens being paid for by all donations over 10,000 BTC?

I don't think so. IMO, we won't get ICNX tokens for investing in the ICO, but ICN tokens will :
The platform itself is investing into its own performance.fund product, which means each ICN will also own a part of the fund on top of a part of the platform, hence making each ICN token worth more.

Of what I have been reading the excess funds will be put into the performance fund.

So for example if they get 12000 BTC the 2000BTC will be running for the performance.index and we get 20% of the ROI in dividends.

Yup. Leads to an interesting question though : who decides what happens to the ROI of this platform-owned ICNX ? Does the ROI turn into dividends or does it have to stay on the fund to sustain growth ?
No way to vote for this AFAIK, whitepapers mentioned the only possible vote by token holders would be for changing the service operator.

There's 2 funds to begin with:

iconomi.index - tracks the ICNX index - takes around a 2% management fee (fee not yet set in stone) - freely tradeable tokens on exchanges

iconomi.performance - invests into new ICOs - takes around a 20% performance fee (fee not yet set in stone) - private fund which does not have tradeable tokens (only a "investment process" and "redemption process")   <-------------- This is the fund they said excess BTC is going into

Hmm I see. Thanks. That explains a lot.
So that means ROI of the platform-owned tokens of the performance.fund will be paid in dividends no matter what  ?  
Seems like I have a lot of homework to do on ETFs now..

Another question : Does this debit a holder's ICN account or their ICNX account?

Nice perk, thanks!

I'm also confused on how exactly the debit card works.  For example if I make a $1000 swipe, what is happening behind the scenes?

It was mentioned they would just put a sell order on some of your assets for $1000.
Now wht happens if the order isn't fulfilled  ?

I'm fairly certain it would be a marketsale, not a stop/limit order
BUT
This is if you have no other assets like fiat or ETH in your account
You could conduct a limit order before you used the card too if liquidity was a concern
Quite an exciting new way to manage assets
Places like Coinbase and Circle will be punching themselves in the face for not thinking of this.
The Bitcoin debit cards currently available don't offer this level of flexibility... not even close.
This is a whole new way to manage assets... a whole new economy Iconomi  

[MoveCrypto]

Hmm I see. Thanks. That explains a lot.
So that means ROI of the platform-owned tokens of the performance.fund will be paid in dividends no matter what  ?  
Seems like I have a lot of homework to do on ETFs now..

If they use the over 10k BTC seed money to make good ICO picks for iconomi.performance, then ICN token holders would get that money back as dividends after some time

For example, let's say 12000 BTC is raised, then the extra 2000 BTC is used to seed the iconomi.performance fund

Iconomi invests the 2000 BTC into an ICO.  The ico goes up 1.5x, so that's a 1000 BTC profit.  ~20% would be distributed to ICN token holders = 200 BTC dividends.  Leaving 2800 BTC remaining in iconomi.performance fund

Now Iconomi invests the 2800 BTC into an ICO and it goes 1.5x.  That's 1400 BTC profit.  ~20% of profit distributed to ICN token holders = 280 BTC dividends.  Leaving 3920 BTC remaining in fund

[MrPresident]

This could go nuclear
...so many articles are going to be on news-stands like Forbes everyone on wall street drinking coffee or getting a haircut will be reading of Iconomi within a week.
Just gimme the Lambo keys right now...  and get it over with already!  

... The Winklevoss Twins are waiting for the last minutes to grab the remaining portion to reach 21k btc btw  (JK)

[Pap0u]

It's hard to say how ICN will perform at release......I have no doubt that when the platform is running and everything takes off ICONOMI will be insane but my main concern is that ICN is for the platform not the funds, so I'm not sure how these funds will affect the price of ICN and what the dividend will be like on the performance fund