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Author Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion  (Read 223246 times)
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kslaughter (OP)
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March 29, 2013, 07:06:52 PM
 #21

AMC was originally considered, thought up, and began investigating possibilities as early as December of last year.
I decided to leverage my connections, background and experience to create a mining cooperative. A plan was formed
to purchase ASIC mining equipment out of my own pocket, and use them to raise funding to invest into more mining
equipment, and to the initial investments of fabricating our own ASIC chips. Right before the IPO launch of the
AMC asset on BitFunder, I was made aware of the many updates, changes, and delays to Avalon that were never communicated
directly to me as a purchaser. Admittedly, I scrambled to adjust things more than once to compensate for recent changes
in both Bitcoin and Avalon.

I have just issued a full reimbursement to all current AMC shareholders at the original price of 0.01 BTC and removed
all current shares. The asset will remain frozen on private status for now.

Over the next while, I will be working to update, correct, and remake an agreement so that it is clear, and sensible to all.
I hope that all of the current investors understand and can appreciate that I have done this with their best interests in mind.

I look forward to great things with the community and bitcoin. This is a very exciting time for everyone, including myself.

Thank You,
Kenneth E. Slaughter
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April 25, 2013, 01:55:33 AM
 #22

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.
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April 25, 2013, 06:29:43 AM
 #23

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.

Looking a lot better.

http://www.virtualminingcorp.com/index.html:

Quote
Fast-Hash is a trademark of Virtual Mining Corporation.

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark.  US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.
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April 25, 2013, 06:37:12 AM
 #24

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark.  US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.
This.

Should also fix "Caption Image".
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April 25, 2013, 12:28:56 PM
 #25

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.

Looking a lot better.

http://www.virtualminingcorp.com/index.html:

Quote
Fast-Hash is a trademark of Virtual Mining Corporation.

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark.  US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.


Thanks, I know all about trademarks.  If you would like to look, you can check out where I defended my AXS mark against Swiss Air, and EDP.
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April 25, 2013, 12:30:08 PM
 #26

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark.  US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.
This.

Should also fix "Caption Image".

Thanks.
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April 25, 2013, 12:34:43 PM
 #27

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.

Looking a lot better.

http://www.virtualminingcorp.com/index.html:

Quote
Fast-Hash is a trademark of Virtual Mining Corporation.

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark.  US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.

Thanks, I tried to include all of the communities valid points in the offering.
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April 25, 2013, 08:26:00 PM
 #28

Logs from a discussion I had with AMC__ in #bitfunder . Take from it what you will.

Code:
(11:07:38 AM) InstantBTC: AMC, what's returning the divs right now?
(11:10:21 AM) InstantBTC: nvm
(11:10:26 AM) InstantBTC: just read the profile
(11:43:36 AM) AMC__: None right now, waiting on the 6 Avalons to get here.
(11:44:29 AM) AMC__: some of the dividends that we paid was from investing the funds in ASICMiner unitil the funds are needed.
(11:46:55 AM) AMC__: AMC is also working with a Major semiconductor company to bring ASIC mining chips to the marketplace in a 5-10 week time frame.
(11:47:57 AM) AMC__: These would be 45nm chips which will be in our Fast-Hash-XXX series from 400 GH/s to 800 GH/s
(11:49:23 AM) InstantBTC: I see
(11:49:25 AM) AMC__: Then our Fast-Hash X.XT's series would be 28nm chips in a 12 month time frame and havd speeds of  1.2 TH/s to 4.8 TH/s
(11:49:25 AM) InstantBTC: interesting
(11:49:44 AM) InstantBTC: approximately how much will the 45nm chips cost?
(11:50:10 AM) AMC__: The Machines?
(11:50:30 AM) InstantBTC: if that's what you're selling, sure
(11:50:41 AM) InstantBTC: if you're selling individual chips, then I mean per chip
(11:51:43 AM) AMC__: Estimated price on the Fast-Hash-400 are ~30,000
(11:51:52 AM) AMC__: $
(11:52:31 AM) AMC__: However, depending on the market when we manufacture them, the price would be adjusted to market.
(11:52:59 AM) AMC__: We are sell machines.
(11:53:50 AM) AMC__: Our first machines will be based on Avalon chips.
(11:54:20 AM) AMC__: VMC is the company selling the machines.  AMC is buying the first 100 machines from VMC.
(11:54:53 AM) AMC__: and has the First rights on machines manufactured by VMC.
(11:55:03 AM) AMC__: AMC has.
(11:55:18 AM) InstantBTC: okay and, I haven't done any math here but... why would somebody invest say $30,000 in the first model, when if they wait a month or two or however long it will be, they can get a much faster model.
(11:55:59 AM) AMC__: The first model is $3,999 and is 80 GH/s
(11:56:52 AM) AMC__: Well, everyday you wait cost money when you are not mining.
(11:57:47 AM) AMC__: AMC is a mining cooperative and buys all the machines and does the mining.  Then pays out dividends.
(11:58:44 AM) AMC__: Fast-Hash-400 estimated delivery date is March 2014
(12:00:34 PM) AMC__: Not having the 6 Avalons here mining is 2590.85 a day lost.
(12:02:42 PM) AMC__: AT the current $148 price for BTC it is 3171.87 per day.
(12:23:36 PM) InstantBTC: wait im confused
(12:23:37 PM) InstantBTC: so
(12:23:56 PM) InstantBTC: the shares are for mining profit? or for profit from sales of the rigs
(12:23:57 PM) InstantBTC: or both
(12:26:21 PM) AMC__: the shares are for the mining profits and AMC gets a 10% royalty from VMC sales for using the technology it creates.
(12:27:24 PM) AMC__: AMC also gets a number of machines at manufactures cost and has the first rights on machines in the future.
(12:27:45 PM) candoo left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(12:29:17 PM) AMC__: AMC will get the first 100 machines in each batch of Fast-Hash-80's
(12:29:41 PM) AMC__: build by VMC.
(12:30:19 PM) AMC__: VMC will also sell machines to the public and AMC will receive a 10% royalty from those sales.
(12:32:47 PM) AMC__: The 6 Avalons when received will generate immediate dividends to share holders.
(12:34:06 PM) AMC__: Also 20,000,000 shares will received dividends, that go the growth and expansion fund to pay for machines from VMC.
(12:34:36 PM) InstantBTC: okay... so who runs VMC?
(12:35:11 PM) AMC__: Kenneth E. Slaughter
(12:35:20 PM) InstantBTC: who runs AMC?
(12:35:40 PM) AMC__: AMC is a business unit of VMC.
(12:36:30 PM) AMC__: Just a separate cooperative that does the mining.  It has separate accounting.
(12:37:52 PM) InstantBTC: okay. so let me get this straight.... AMC (which is public) is funding VMC (which is privately owned). AMC gets 10% royalties from VMC.
(12:38:18 PM) AMC__: Only the expenses in the offering will be charged to AMC, those just for mining.  Up to a max of 10%.
(12:38:40 PM) InstantBTC: could you rephrase that?
(12:38:57 PM) InstantBTC: not sure I understand what you said
(12:39:17 PM) InstantBTC: VMC's expenses will be charged to AMC?
(12:39:17 PM) AMC__: AMC which is going public is developing the technology and gets a number of benfits from VMC for its technology.
(12:39:55 PM) AMC__: No, only expenses that are directly related to Bitcoin mining get charged to AMC.
(12:42:43 PM) InstantBTC: right.. okay. excuse me if this sounds harsh but... to me it sounds like AMC is just a shell to screw investors out of money that they are really investing into VMC, but it has a few "perks" just to suger coat it. Obviously those perks are still < than what investors be entitled to if VMC was public though, otherwise you would simply make VMC public instead of making a shell for public funding.
(12:43:43 PM) AMC__: VMC will have its own offering and will be also funded by pre-orders.
(12:44:31 PM) InstantBTC: if VMC is going public, why bother making AMC?
(12:44:43 PM) AMC__: AMC is just a mining cooperative, not a manufacture.  AMC will have a return to investor as soon as the Avalons get here.
(12:45:40 PM) AMC__: Did AMC first, they have the machines coming in.  VMC was a second though after the cooperative.  Was going to buy
(12:45:57 PM) AMC__: Avalons and BFL.
(12:46:42 PM) AMC__: Decided to build my own.  Using Avalon chip for the fast-Hash-80's
(12:46:51 PM) AMC__: *chips
(12:47:25 PM) InstantBTC: why not just make them one entity
(12:47:33 PM) AMC__: The two have different roles.  AMC is a mining cooperative and VMC is a manufacture.
(12:47:52 PM) InstantBTC: AM does both
(12:48:40 PM) AMC__: Could do that I guess, but I like the way the mining revenue is kept separate.  I think that would be good for investors.
(12:48:44 PM) InstantBTC: having two separate entities is either screwing investors or screwing you. I find it hard to believe that you'd do extra work to screw yourself, so it just seems obvious that the two entities is screwed the investors
(12:48:59 PM) AMC__: It is mosly screwing me.
(12:49:48 PM) InstantBTC: then make them joint entities. that way there isn't any question about who's getting screwed
(12:50:15 PM) InstantBTC: it would make it much easier for you, and make it look less suspicious
(12:50:49 PM) InstantBTC: if it really is screwing you. then you have all the reasons in the world to make them one entity
(12:50:54 PM) AMC__: The investors are not going to get screwed with AMC.  Just watch the dividends start being paid.
(12:51:25 PM) InstantBTC: if its not screwing you then it's screwing investors, which I think ultimately would lead to failure
(12:51:41 PM) AMC__: Why?
(12:51:55 PM) AMC__: I think it is a Win-Win
(12:52:22 PM) InstantBTC: the investors are being screwed if their money is being reinvested into another company, in which they're only entitled to 10% royalties
(12:53:56 PM) AMC__: They are getting a lot more that a 10% royalty.  The money is not being invested into VMC.  AMC is buying machines and
(12:54:08 PM) AMC__: getting them at manufactures cost.
(12:54:32 PM) AMC__: And getting them first.
(12:55:23 PM) InstantBTC: you said that AMC gets 10% royalty for technology it creates
(12:55:52 PM) InstantBTC: is the technology it creates 100% free?
(12:56:53 PM) InstantBTC: how is the technology going to be created if not using investor's money to do it?
(12:57:47 PM) AMC__: You are missing a lot of what AMC gets.
(12:58:07 PM) InstantBTC: I already expressed my believe of what AMC gets as being a distraction
(12:58:13 PM) InstantBTC: and please answer the question I asked
(12:58:23 PM) AMC__: If AMC bought the machines say from Avalon, they would have to pay retail for those machines. Right?
(12:58:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:55:23 PM) InstantBTC: you said that AMC gets 10% royalty for technology it creates
(12:58:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:55:52 PM) InstantBTC: is the technology it creates 100% free?
(12:58:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:56:53 PM) InstantBTC: how is the technology going to be created if not using investor's money to do it?
(12:59:27 PM) AMC__: It is, but you are missing what AMC is getting, they are not just getting a 10% royalty.
(01:01:05 PM) AMC__: So if AMC bought machine from Avalon they would have to pay retail. Right?
(01:01:09 PM) InstantBTC: okay, so it uses AMC is funding VMC. now tell me. How does it benefit investors that they are separate entities?
(01:01:25 PM) AMC__: AMC is not funding VMC!
(01:01:29 PM) InstantBTC: you just saidi t
(01:01:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:59:27 PM) AMC__: It is, but you are missing what AMC is getting, they are not just getting a 10% royalty.
(01:02:02 PM) InstantBTC: how does it benefit AMC investors that VMC is a separate entity?
(01:02:10 PM) AMC__: Well, they are buying machine from VMC.  AMC is not funding VMC.
(01:02:43 PM) InstantBTC: sure, preordering them from VMC. same thing as funding.
(01:02:50 PM) AMC__: AMC investors do not have to take on the burden of VMC expenses to manufacture the machines
(01:03:07 PM) AMC__: Whatever you think.
(01:03:18 PM) InstantBTC: but they are funding VMC, so they are indeed taking on the burden of the expenses
(01:04:03 PM) AMC__: No, AMC does not have a lot of the expenses that VMC will have manufacturing machines, that is why it is seperate.
(01:04:21 PM) InstantBTC: example of those expenses?
(01:05:18 PM) AMC__: What expenses do you think a manfacture would have, like the warehouse space, SMT machine, labor, etc.
(01:05:38 PM) AMC__: None of those will be bore by AMC.
(01:06:22 PM) AMC__: AMC gets Bitcoin mining machines at a good price for its money.
(01:06:39 PM) AMC__: Has none of the expenses of manufacturing.
(01:07:01 PM) InstantBTC: but AMC is buying at manufacturers cost. via preorder. so. in short, it's paying exactly what VMC needs to pay to produce the devices
(01:07:24 PM) InstantBTC: including costs of labor, warehouse space, etc
(01:07:29 PM) InstantBTC: this is also known as funding
(01:07:31 PM) AMC__: So is Avalon and BFL what is the difference
(01:07:58 PM) InstantBTC: so, this brings me back to. AMC is funding VMC, but it's only entitled to 10% of the royalties
(01:07:58 PM) AMC__: Yes, you can fund a compay by sales,  VMC is going to sale to the public also.
(01:08:24 PM) AMC__: That is enough.  You buy the shares or not.
(01:08:39 PM) InstantBTC: lol. you still haven't answered my question
(01:08:47 PM) AMC__: So
(01:08:58 PM) InstantBTC: How do AMC's investors benefit from AMC and VMC being separate entities?
(01:09:47 PM) AMC__: AMC benfits by not have VMC's manufacturing expenses.  You want to pay VMC expenses from the mining revenue?
(01:10:17 PM) AMC__: You didn't answer my question either.
(01:10:20 PM) InstantBTC: yes. that's how it should be. considering AMC is funding VMC (which you already agreed to)
(01:11:15 PM) AMC__: Only funding VMC by way of Sales.  If AMC was buying Avalons then AMC would be funding Avalon.  Same thing.
(01:12:21 PM) InstantBTC: lets do a little math here. so lets say VMC has 2 customers okay? one being AMC, the other being Random bitcoiner which I'll refer to as RB
(01:12:29 PM) InstantBTC: so.
(01:12:39 PM) AMC__: Let not I have other things to do today.
(01:12:59 PM) AMC__: If you like it, buy it, if not don't
(01:13:03 PM) InstantBTC: lets say manufacturing cost is 20k (which is probably much higher than it really is)
(01:13:06 PM) InstantBTC: so
(01:13:21 PM) InstantBTC: AMC pays 20k, RB pays 30k
(01:14:27 PM) InstantBTC: total profit for VMC is 10k, AMC is entitled to 10% of that, which means AMC gets 1k + a rig
(01:15:13 PM) InstantBTC: VMC gets 9k and manufacturing process is set up
(01:15:24 PM) InstantBTC: lets run another scenario
(01:15:40 PM) InstantBTC: where AMC is doing the manufactuering
(01:15:55 PM) InstantBTC: AMC buys their own for 20k, and RB pays 30k
(01:16:13 PM) InstantBTC: AMC gets a rig plus 10k profit
(01:16:48 PM) InstantBTC: so tell me
(01:17:07 PM) InstantBTC: how does AMC investors benefit from them being separate entities?
(01:17:47 PM) AMC__: I told you about 100 times.
(01:18:11 PM) InstantBTC: not really
(01:18:36 PM) InstantBTC: because if AMC is paying for the expenses (ie. manufactuer's cost)
(01:19:12 PM) InstantBTC: then they do have the burden of the expenses
(01:19:59 PM) InstantBTC: am I wrong here?
(01:20:11 PM) AMC__: Yes you are.
(01:20:16 PM) InstantBTC: then explain it to me
(01:20:33 PM) InstantBTC: how is the scenario I drew there wrong?
(01:20:38 PM) AMC__: I already did, I am sorry that you can not understand.
(01:21:13 PM) AMC__: Let me ask you a question, Ok?
(01:21:17 PM) InstantBTC: go ahead
(01:21:42 PM) AMC__: Can you buy Avalons at manufactures cost today?  Yes or No
(01:21:50 PM) InstantBTC: can VMC?
(01:22:04 PM) AMC__: answer my question
(01:22:07 PM) InstantBTC: no I can't
(01:22:09 PM) InstantBTC: answer mine
(01:22:21 PM) AMC__: you first, then I will answer yours
(01:22:25 PM) InstantBTC: I already did
(01:22:29 PM) InstantBTC: I said no I can't
(01:22:37 PM) InstantBTC: I can not buy avalons at manufactuers cost today
(01:22:39 PM) AMC__: Ok, that is enough, ttyl
(01:22:51 PM) InstantBTC: lol?
(01:23:31 PM) AMC__: VMC can't, but AMC can from VMC.  that is the anwser to your question above.
(01:23:52 PM) InstantBTC: I rest my case
(01:23:59 PM) AMC__: Good, me too.

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April 25, 2013, 08:38:16 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2013, 09:33:43 PM by kslaughter
 #29

Yes, InstantBTC, tries to show that AMC is not a good investment.  However, he miss a few points in the discussion above.

First,

AMC purchases machines from VMC at manufactures cost.  AMC can't purchase Avalons or BFL machines at manufactures cost. This is a big advantage to investors in AMC.

Second,

AMC gets the first machines VMC produces.  AMC can't get the first machines Avalon or BFl produces.  Advantage to investors in AMC.

Third,

AMC gets the first rights on future machines VMC produces.  Another advantage to investors in AMC.

Fourth,

AMC gets a 10% royalty from VMC on machines that use AMC technology.  This is the only point that InstantBTC uses to make his case.

Last,

Investors start getting revenue as soon as the 6 Avalons on order start mining and producting income. Another advantage to investors than InstanceBTC misses.

All of the above is why AMC is a good investment!

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO
Virtual Mining Corporation
http://www.virtualminingcorp.com
1+(855) One-Bitcoin (663-2482)
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April 25, 2013, 08:54:17 PM
 #30

1.  Are any commitments (with penalties for failure to meet) being made by VMC to AML in respect of delivery of the hardware?
2.  What rights does AML have to cancel the agreement with VMC - specifically if VMC fails to meet deadlines/performance targets?  It's pretty critical that this crystal clear if the two entities are managed by the same team - otherwise conflict of interest issues could easily arise.
3.  Further to 3. can you confirm that if VMC fails (to a large extent) to meet deadlines/performance targets then AML WOULD cancel the contract and look for alternative sourcing?
4.  If VMC fails to deliver in a reasonable time-frame is there any assurance that they would be able to refund AML the pre-order funds?


Where two entities run by the same team interact AND take outside investment it's absolutely key that all interaction between them is precisely defined in advance.

More general questions relating to VMC:

Obviously VMC needs a certain amount of capital to produce the ASICs.  You've indicated that it may be seperately listed.

1.  Would VMC be able to produce the hardware with ONLY the pre-order cash from AML (plus whatever cash you already have from other sources for it)?
2.  If the answer to 1. is NO then what happens if VML fails to raise sufficient capital?  What percentage (roughly) of necessary capital does the AML pre-order funds represent?
3.  If the answer to 1. is YES then why would you need to float VML?
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April 25, 2013, 09:04:56 PM
 #31

1.  Are any commitments (with penalties for failure to meet) being made by VMC to AML in respect of delivery of the hardware?
2.  What rights does AML have to cancel the agreement with VMC - specifically if VMC fails to meet deadlines/performance targets?  It's pretty critical that this crystal clear if the two entities are managed by the same team - otherwise conflict of interest issues could easily arise.
3.  Further to 3. can you confirm that if VMC fails (to a large extent) to meet deadlines/performance targets then AML WOULD cancel the contract and look for alternative sourcing?
4.  If VMC fails to deliver in a reasonable time-frame is there any assurance that they would be able to refund AML the pre-order funds?


Where two entities run by the same team interact AND take outside investment it's absolutely key that all interaction between them is precisely defined in advance.

More general questions relating to VMC:

Obviously VMC needs a certain amount of capital to produce the ASICs.  You've indicated that it may be seperately listed.

1.  Would VMC be able to produce the hardware with ONLY the pre-order cash from AML (plus whatever cash you already have from other sources for it)?
2.  If the answer to 1. is NO then what happens if VML fails to raise sufficient capital?  What percentage (roughly) of necessary capital does the AML pre-order funds represent?
3.  If the answer to 1. is YES then why would you need to float VML?

+10

Great post Deprived.

I will be creating a contract between AMC and VMC that will protect the investors of AMC and be fair to VMC.

I will post the proposed contract here in this thread.  The contract will be executed as soon as AMC has funding.
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April 25, 2013, 09:05:07 PM
 #32

Yes, InstantBTC, tries to show that AMC is not a good investment.  However, he miss a few points in the discussion above.

First,

AMC purchases machines from VMC at manufactures cost.  AMC can't purchase Avalons or BFL machines at manufactures cost. This is a big advantage to investors in AMC.

Second,

AMC gets the first machines VMC produces.  AMC can't get the first machines Avalon or BFl produces.  Advantage to investors in AMC.

Third,

AMC gets the first rights on future machines VMC produces.  Another advantage to investors in AMC.

Fourth,

AMC get a 10% royalty from VMC on machines that use AMC technology.  This is the only point that InstantBTC uses to make his case.

Last,

Investor start getting revenue as soon as the 6 Avalons on order start mining and producting income.

All of the above is why AMC is a good investment!

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO
Virtual Mining Corporation
http://www.virtualminingcorp.com
1+(855) One-Bitcoin (663-2482)


I never said that AMC was a bad investment. I asked questions, told you my impressions based on the information available to me, then I asked more questions. Those are questions that other people might have as well, so if anything, by posting those logs I'm saving you time. I'm not trying to campaign against you and I wish you luck.

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April 25, 2013, 09:16:29 PM
 #33

Apologies if this is answered elsewhere, I saw some dates in the original post but I'm not sure if they are right.

How quickly will VMC be able to deliver the hardware that they are creating?  If looks like BFL is finally shipping some units so that will begin to have a big impact on hashrates and therefore the profitability of AMC.
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April 25, 2013, 09:42:31 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2013, 10:10:52 PM by kslaughter
 #34

Apologies if this is answered elsewhere, I saw some dates in the original post but I'm not sure if they are right.

How quickly will VMC be able to deliver the hardware that they are creating?  If looks like BFL is finally shipping some units so that will begin to have a big impact on hashrates and therefore the profitability of AMC.

VMC for its Fast-Hash-XX series will be purchasing chips from Avalon.  Avalon has said that the chips can be provided in 9-10 weeks.  VMC has already done the design work
on all the other components of the system.  VMC will use  a low volume production method for the PCB to have them ready when the chips arrive.  The chips will then be
added to the board.  Estimated to be delivered August 2013.  The investors will start receiving dividends as soon as the 6 Avalon get here and AMC receives revenue from them.

Hash Rate Question:

From the AMC Offering:

Estimated as of this writing with 40 times the current Difficulty of 8,974,296 or
a Difficulty of 358,971,840 (~6,903,305 per difficulty adjustment) and a decline
in profitability of .61 per year.

End AMC Offering

We have been very conservative on our projections.

See complete offering here: https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC
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April 29, 2013, 07:12:13 PM
Last edit: April 29, 2013, 09:26:49 PM by kslaughter
 #35

1.  Are any commitments (with penalties for failure to meet) being made by VMC to AML in respect of delivery of the hardware?
2.  What rights does AML have to cancel the agreement with VMC - specifically if VMC fails to meet deadlines/performance targets?  It's pretty critical that this crystal clear if the two entities are managed by the same team - otherwise conflict of interest issues could easily arise.
3.  Further to 3. can you confirm that if VMC fails (to a large extent) to meet deadlines/performance targets then AML WOULD cancel the contract and look for alternative sourcing?
4.  If VMC fails to deliver in a reasonable time-frame is there any assurance that they would be able to refund AML the pre-order funds?


Where two entities run by the same team interact AND take outside investment it's absolutely key that all interaction between them is precisely defined in advance.

More general questions relating to VMC:

Obviously VMC needs a certain amount of capital to produce the ASICs.  You've indicated that it may be seperately listed.

1.  Would VMC be able to produce the hardware with ONLY the pre-order cash from AML (plus whatever cash you already have from other sources for it)?
2.  If the answer to 1. is NO then what happens if VML fails to raise sufficient capital?  What percentage (roughly) of necessary capital does the AML pre-order funds represent?
3.  If the answer to 1. is YES then why would you need to float VML?

AGREEMENT OF UNDERSTANDING

BETWEEN

VIRTUAL MINING CORPORATION

AND

ACTIVE MINING COOPERATIVE



THIS IS A LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN VIRTUAL MINING, CORPORATION A DELAWARE CORPORATION HEREINAFTER (“VMC”), WHICH MANUFACTURES BITCOIN MINING MACHINES, AND ACTIVE MINING COOPERATIVE HEREINAFTER (“AMC”) A  SEPERATE BUSINESS UNIT OF VMC WHICH MINES BITCOINS FOR IT'S MEMBERS.  THIS AGREEMENT APPLIES TO DELIVERY OF PRE-ORDERED BITCOIN MINING MACHINES TO BE PROVIDE TO AMC BY VMC PROVIDED IN ATTACHMENT A WHICH HEREIN IS INCORPORATED INTO THIS AGREEMENT BY REFERENCE.

VMC AGREES TO:
Only use per-order funds supplied by AMC to pay the manufacturer's cost of manufacturing the  herefore said machines to be supplied to AMC.
Deliver the herefore said machines within 60 days of the estimated delivery date stated in the  herefore said Attachment A.
That it has that ability to manufacture the herefore said machines with only the funds provided by AMC.
To do whatsoever is in the best interest of AMC and its members and use its Best effort to provide the herefore said machines to AMC in a timely manner.

AMC AGREES TO:
Provide the funds for the manufacture's cost of manufacturing the here fore said machines to be supplied in Attachment A  to VMC  at least 120 days before the date said machines are to be delivered.


TERM  
This Agreement is effective until terminated.  VMC or AMC may terminate this Agreement by giving
the other 30 days written notice and VMC returning to the other any funds not used or needed in the manufacture of the said machines to be supplied in Attachment A and AMC paying any cost that VMC may have accrued from AMC.  After termination of this agreement if any funds have been used to order parts for the manufacture of the said machines to be supplied in Attachment A, said funds shall not be refunded to AMC, however AMC will have the option of VMC transferring the parts to AMC or letting VMC use the said parts in manufacture of other Bitcoin mining machines.  If the said parts are used in the manufacture of other Bitcoin mining machines, then the cost of said parts will be refunded to AMC within 30 days.  AMC shall take a vote of its members with each member getting one vote for each share that they own on Bitfunder.com to determine the above option.


GENERAL PROVISIONS
Entire Agreement.  This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding between VMC and AMC with respect to the subject matter hereof.  This Agreement may be amended only in a writing signed by both parties.  No vendor, distributor, dealer, retailer, sales person or other person is authorized to modify this Agreement or to make any warranty, representation or promise which is different than, or in addition to, the representations or promises of this Agreement.

Other.  No waiver of any right under this Agreement shall be effective unless in writing, signed by a duly authorized representative of SplendidCRM.  Failure to insist upon strict compliance with this Agreement shall not be deemed a waiver of any future right arising out of this Agreement. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of North Carolina. The parties agree that sole jurisdiction and venue for any dispute relating to this Agreement shall be in a state or federal court in Wake County, North Carolina. The United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded and shall not apply to this Agreement.   If any provision of this Agreement is held by a court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid or unenforceable, such provision shall be fully severable, and this Agreement shall be construed and enforced as if the illegal, invalid or unenforceable provision had never been a part of this Agreement.  You may not assign or transfer this Agreement, and any such attempted assignment or transfer shall be null and void.  The prevailing party in any action to enforce this Agreement shall be entitled to recover its reasonable attorney’s fees from the other party.  



Virtual Mining Corporation                 Active Mining Cooperative
                                                    a Business Unit of VMC.

___________________________         _____________________________
Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO                 Kenneth E. Slaughter, Managing Member

Attachement A:  https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC
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April 29, 2013, 08:35:40 PM
 #36

Apologies if this is answered elsewhere, I saw some dates in the original post but I'm not sure if they are right.

How quickly will VMC be able to deliver the hardware that they are creating?  If looks like BFL is finally shipping some units so that will begin to have a big impact on hashrates and therefore the profitability of AMC.

Sorry for the delay in answering you post.  Our estimated delivery on our Fast-Hash-XX series (20-80 GHs) is August 2013.  We are purchasing Avalon chips which they say that can be supplies from TSMC is 9-10 weeks.  We are ready have the machines designed, we just need to spin up the Printed Circuit Boards (PCB)s get the Avalon chips and have them installed on the board.  After we receive the boards we would install them in our already design rack-mountable cases.  The rest of the system is off the shelf components which are readily available.  At the same time we will start our 45nm development project.
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April 29, 2013, 08:57:42 PM
 #37

1.  Are any commitments (with penalties for failure to meet) being made by VMC to AML in respect of delivery of the hardware?
2.  What rights does AML have to cancel the agreement with VMC - specifically if VMC fails to meet deadlines/performance targets?  It's pretty critical that this crystal clear if the two entities are managed by the same team - otherwise conflict of interest issues could easily arise.
3.  Further to 3. can you confirm that if VMC fails (to a large extent) to meet deadlines/performance targets then AML WOULD cancel the contract and look for alternative sourcing?
4.  If VMC fails to deliver in a reasonable time-frame is there any assurance that they would be able to refund AML the pre-order funds?


Where two entities run by the same team interact AND take outside investment it's absolutely key that all interaction between them is precisely defined in advance.

More general questions relating to VMC:

Obviously VMC needs a certain amount of capital to produce the ASICs.  You've indicated that it may be seperately listed.

1.  Would VMC be able to produce the hardware with ONLY the pre-order cash from AML (plus whatever cash you already have from other sources for it)?
2.  If the answer to 1. is NO then what happens if VML fails to raise sufficient capital?  What percentage (roughly) of necessary capital does the AML pre-order funds represent?
3.  If the answer to 1. is YES then why would you need to float VML?

Specific Question Above:

1.  Yes, See contract above.
2.  30 Days Written notice, See contract above.
3.  Yes, it could,  VMC has to take AMC's best interest into account.  See contract above.
4.  VMC will be selling machines to the public after AMC first 100.  VMC should be making a profit, which could be used to refund
     to AMC, see contract above.

General Questions:

1.  Yes, See the contract above.
3.  VMC will be selling machines to the public after AMC first 100 of each batch, so VMC will use Pre-Orders from the public and an
     IPO for their operating capital.  VMC was originally considered, thought up, and began investigating possibilities after Avalon first gave us
     3 days notice on their batch 3, the fact that they may not have a batch 4, and BFL delivery date is maybe the end of June.  Also BFL track record
     is not very good.  Avalon is also falling behind a month now on their delivery date.  So VMC was thought up to solve these problems and give
     AMC an advantage in getting the machines, a win for the investors in AMC.

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May 01, 2013, 02:22:24 PM
 #38

Are you any relation to Jessi Slaughter ?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jessi%20Slaughter

The consequences for bitcoin will never be the same Tongue

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May 01, 2013, 02:30:44 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2013, 05:10:07 PM by kslaughter
 #39

No.
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May 02, 2013, 07:20:28 PM
 #40

AMC Declares Special Dividend

SPRINGFIELD, MO, – May 2, 2013 – AMC today has declared a special dividend of .0000001 per share for it members.
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