[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[TheSwede75]

Relevant for those investing in AMC-PT. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241415.0;all

Also: What are these wild claims coming from? 'World fastest chip?" Both Bitfury and KNC miner has announced chips in 55nm/28nm that are expected for delivery in SEPTEMBER with same/competing hash rates. KNC's chip is a 55x55mm core @ 100 GH/s and Bitfury is a multicore chip capable of 0.3W per 1GH. What justifies a $25 MILLION valuation for a company with no track record, and a few 1000 BTC in total assets?

LOL! So, a Jupiter miner of 350GH/s will use 3.5 chips then?

Read their announcement.

Please link it to me. I also very much would like to see the power figures on a 100GH/s chip.

Maybe you should tell them to modify their Jupiter image on their webpage? Seems so big for a 3.5 chip machine! And watercooled! Oh my! I can only imagine the overclock those chips will run at!

How is any of that relevant. To my knowledge AMC is yet to show e shred of evidence of anything but Avalon clones as well..

[1714808643]

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[1714808643]

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[lewicki]

How is any of that relevant. To my knowledge AMC is yet to show e shred of evidence of anything but Avalon clones as well..

You do realize that naysayers said the exact same thing about the Avalons not showing up, right? Ken has come through on all promises so far. You can't dock him for future promise that have not come to fruition yet. We understand the risks.

[TheSwede75]

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

I'm all ears. What are your precise objections?

Precise? Oh well how about:

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered August 2013)

We are on schedule to receive 62 of these machine by the end of August.  We have 20,000 chips on order from
Avalon for these machines.

Now, I think you are a competitor just trying to spread FUD about AMC, I have looked at some of your
post and you seem to be tied to KnC as your forum name suggest "TheSwede75". and this:

[Group Buy #2] 1 KNC Miner Saturn 175 GH/s miner + hosting (10 shares) CLOSED

which is your group buy for KNC equipment.  Case Closed.

I hosted a single group buy for 40 BTC, and am a competitor? Yep. I hope AMC succeeds, I just personally cannot wrap my head around the profit margins and sale prices described in the prospectus. If you can sell Avalon clones for $6000, 6 months from now. Well, more power to you.

[TheSwede75]

Every single one of these people either:

• Mine themselves
• Own Shares in a competing security
• Trying to pick up shares a lower price

This will pass, just as it did when we had good news the previous 2 times and were put down.

Say they succeed, though, in scaring people out of their shares (or from buying the IPOs). What happens if the needed funding isn't acquired? I read earlier that AMC can get a loan from VMC or something similar - still a possibility if IPOs aren't all purchased?

How are people even calling selling shares at 0.0024 "panic selling" when IPO was at 0.0005? This market is simply rediculous right now. If AMC can deliver on their promises, I bet we will see it do great in the next 6-12 months. I for one just think that for a early stage start up. The valuation is far too high.

[lewicki]

If you structure a company so that you NEED money from a second share issue at 5 TIMES orininal issue price just weeks or months after your IPO, you deserve to fail.

How are people even calling selling shares at 0.0024 "panic selling" when IPO was at 0.0005? This market is simply rediculous right now.

The second block of shares issued was specifically needed if the possibility of AMC's chip came to fruition. Why request money that might not be needed? The writing was on the wall that AMC would need an influx of BTC at a later date to pay for the development of the chips.

Panic selling fits what happened earlier tonight quite well: That is, some investors bought shares at some price, then started selling them as soon as they dropped below what they had bought them at.

It doesn't matter what price the shares were sold at, what matters is the amount of BTC invested. AMC has stated that 100% of the NRE (which includes the blocks at .0025) would be repayed before VMC started taking in dividends.

[MWNinja]

The NRE on eAsic isn't much really, they specialize on partial wafer prototypes.  Make something that works and then come ask for money.  If the results are disappointing then keep spinning/spending more NRE with eAsic until it does....

The nature of how all the investor money flows from AMC to VMC makes this a scam.  We should be investing in the whole enchilada, instead here the investor takes all the BTC risk while you funnel off all the profits to VMC.

Caveat Emptor

[Diamondstarfall]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

[hamiltino]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

[empoweoqwj]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

My worry as a potential investor is the opposite. Despite tripling his money the guy has nothing good to say about the operation. There are lots of people in this thread with similar views. I went through 380 pages of ASICMINER discussions and believe me, its 99% praise. Here its 50/50, makes me vary wary as potential investor.

[hamiltino]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

My worry as a potential investor is the opposite. Despite tripling his money the guy has nothing good to say about the operation. There are lots of people in this thread with similar views. I went through 380 pages of ASICMINER discussions and believe me, its 99% praise. Here its 50/50, makes me vary wary as potential investor.

Hey mate, you are correct. If theres 40 million shares on issue at lets say at the rate of 0.0025  a share. 40m x 0.0025 = 100k in BTC. There is no way this company is worth 100 thousand in bitcoins LOL. Did i miss something here? I can't see this going up.

Update: They are actually have 100 million shares, that makes the company worth 250k BTC @ 0.0025. Which is 1/84 of all bitcoins (21 million) or at current prices worth 25 million dollars, This is plain ridicules. And a drop in value is sure to come. This is mostly speculative hype. A bullish rush to buy that it way more emotional than rational.

[Rodyland]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245354

Will be interesting to see if any of the naysayers are willing to put their bitcoin where their mouth is, or if they are just armchair quarterbacks.

[grimholt]

.0025 Shares sold on Bifunder: 432,649
.0025 Shares sold on BTC-TC: 511,678
Total: 944,327

944323/4000000 = 0.23608075 = ~23.6 % funded

[grimholt]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

My worry as a potential investor is the opposite. Despite tripling his money the guy has nothing good to say about the operation. There are lots of people in this thread with similar views. I went through 380 pages of ASICMINER discussions and believe me, its 99% praise. Here its 50/50, makes me vary wary as potential investor.

I doubt there's 99 % praise, but ASICMINER was the first one out there. When they started out they had basically no competition. With no competition you will have a lot less naysaying. Now there is a lot of competition, a lot of conflicting interests and thus naturally the amount of foul-mouthing is going to be higher.

[empoweoqwj]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

My worry as a potential investor is the opposite. Despite tripling his money the guy has nothing good to say about the operation. There are lots of people in this thread with similar views. I went through 380 pages of ASICMINER discussions and believe me, its 99% praise. Here its 50/50, makes me vary wary as potential investor.

Hey mate, you are correct. If theres 40 million shares on issue at lets say at the rate of 0.0025  a share. 40m x 0.0025 = 100k in BTC. There is no way this company is worth 100 thousand in bitcoins LOL. Did i miss something here? I can't see this going up.

I also wonder why the need to offer 40 million (or is it 100 million) shares in a brand new venture. Why pick this amazingly large number? Probably not important, just seems strange to offer such a huge number of shares when you begin something.

I'm not a naysayer. I'm looking at this very closely as an investment opportunity. But I believe its good to look at all angles when investing, as there are plenty of investments looking for cash.

[empoweoqwj]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

My worry as a potential investor is the opposite. Despite tripling his money the guy has nothing good to say about the operation. There are lots of people in this thread with similar views. I went through 380 pages of ASICMINER discussions and believe me, its 99% praise. Here its 50/50, makes me vary wary as potential investor.

I doubt there's 99 % praise, but ASICMINER was the first one out there. When they started out they had basically no competition. With no competition you will have a lot less naysaying. Now there is a lot of competition, a lot of conflicting interests and thus naturally the amount of foul-mouthing is going to be higher.

All I can say is I read every page, and 99% praise is conservative. But of course you are right, they started their operation at a great time, and have reaped amazing rewards, so investors aren't going to moan at that. Times are a lot tougher now, and it seems AMC need a massive multiple of the cash ASICMINER just to get started.

There will be lots of competition in the next 12 months, that's for sure. The number of bitcoins ASICMINER has produced shows what a profitable business this can be.

[grimholt]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

My worry as a potential investor is the opposite. Despite tripling his money the guy has nothing good to say about the operation. There are lots of people in this thread with similar views. I went through 380 pages of ASICMINER discussions and believe me, its 99% praise. Here its 50/50, makes me vary wary as potential investor.

I doubt there's 99 % praise, but ASICMINER was the first one out there. When they started out they had basically no competition. With no competition you will have a lot less naysaying. Now there is a lot of competition, a lot of conflicting interests and thus naturally the amount of foul-mouthing is going to be higher.

Ha.  BFL was the first.  And I crapped all over them from day 1.

Yeah, I guess you're right. However ASICMINER was the first one that was able to do it in a professional and satisfying manner. They've really delivered and have given their investors brilliant returns, so I'm not surprised there's mostly praise about them.

[freedomno1]

I've been an early investor bought below 0.0008BTC and cashed out at 0.0025BTC

Why the sudden change of heart? ken is his whole operation gets shadier everyday. It may seem like all is going well with his active posts/and few Avalon rigs running for dust dividends, but it looks more and more like a scam to me.

But this is bitcoin stocks and we have seen in the past, elaborate scams aren't new. This may be the biggest one yet.

Go read the share information and contract over and over, investor's benefits very little and I honestly don't know how you can justify selling your newer issued shares at 0.0025. I understand if there are significantly less shares before you introduced 4million shares at 0.0025. But no, that's not the case... 10TIMES the amount of shares has already been present and issued. You honestly think you can just increase your stock by 310%+ by issuing another 4 million at that price claiming early bird investment?

You just tripled your money and you are still complaining?

My worry as a potential investor is the opposite. Despite tripling his money the guy has nothing good to say about the operation. There are lots of people in this thread with similar views. I went through 380 pages of ASICMINER discussions and believe me, its 99% praise. Here its 50/50, makes me vary wary as potential investor.

I doubt there's 99 % praise, but ASICMINER was the first one out there. When they started out they had basically no competition. With no competition you will have a lot less naysaying. Now there is a lot of competition, a lot of conflicting interests and thus naturally the amount of foul-mouthing is going to be higher.

Ha.  BFL was the first.  And I crapped all over them from day 1.

Yeah, I guess you're right. However ASICMINER was the first one that was able to do it in a professional and satisfying manner. They've really delivered and have given their investors brilliant returns, so I'm not surprised there's mostly praise about them.

Exponential increases in difficulty means exponential needs for equity I guess

[ChefBorjan]

I'm curious, when do people think the undercutting will stop and more importantly why?

Still, the good news to take is that a sizable portion of the released 2 million have been eaten into and its only been a couple of days. Lets just hope the momentum can continue...

[Minor Miner]

The maximum NRE total cost asked to us is around $1,000,000, but we are expecting it may go
down from there. We estimate a total sale of 4,000,000 shares at ฿0.0025 for covering all
the NRE associated costs, considering BTC/USD fluctuations.

VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to
VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC.  AMC will also
have the First Rights Of Refusal on a number of machines built with the Fast-Hash-ONE.

Are you sure VMC can afford to be this generous?
I mean all AMC is going to do is lend VMC $1 million.
And in return VMC is going to pay it back from profits?  AND allow them to buy hardware?
Shouldn't VMC get something out of it?

You do not think getting a million of absolutely free high risk capital is worth something? 

[ChronoX5]

I'm curious, when do people think the undercutting will stop and more importantly why?

Still, the good news to take is that a sizable portion of the released 2 million have been eaten into and its only been a couple of days. Lets just hope the momentum can continue...

It would be helpful if Bitcoin wouldn't tank right now. I think AMC will remain fairly stable for the next few weeks but the BTC/$ course might still drop, so there's no reason to invest.