[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[lolstate]

Steveioio, I'm close to putting you in the same bucket as MM, Swede and Entropy. I'll be watching carefully to see if you can stay on topic, or resort to spamming people with inane typing like they have.

I wont directly reply to this threat that adds nothing to the discussion. Pure spam.

I think I already said I'll be ignoring you from now on. I'm temporarily breaking that pledge to point out to you and any new comers that you have been part of the problem on this thread. We need to raise the quality of comments here, so please lend a hand  .

Edit: 'Threat' ?! It's a statement of fact. Stop playing the victim.

[stereotype]

The question should be, who is paying for the coordinated negative postings? I vote to easily investigate multiple accounts, and the buying/selling of accounts, which of course wont happen.

Ken. Someone influential voted you enemy of the week, me thinks.

People who actually know how to invest, simple.

How to invest = Attack the enemy.

Really TF?

[lolstate]

Steveioio, I'm close to putting you in the same bucket as MM, Swede and Entropy. I'll be watching carefully to see if you can stay on topic, or resort to spamming people with inane typing like they have.

I wont directly reply to this threat that adds nothing to the discussion. Pure spam.

lolstate role on this forum (this thread actualy, since he posted nowhere else) is to distract, derail debate and turn us naysayers into mere trolls
and spammers. He wants to pick a pointless fight and extend thread to thousands of pages of shit so that concerns and questions asked become
buried under nothing but crap and spam. Don't fall for it. Give sucker negative trust and ignore him, thanks!

I'm sensing regret from MM, we definitely saw it earlier from Entropy and Swede. I think they realise how ridiculously shallow they have made themselves appear here. I'm coming around to the idea of keeping everything in this thread to act as a guide to future Bitcoin generations on how not to behave and moving to a brand new, moderated thread. But that's just my opinion, I'll go with the majority view on this.

[MrMochi]

What's with all this zealotry?
Some people are asking questions about this security. And they should be allowed. Because most of them have concerns that they want put to rest. Before investing their money into AMC.

But then random people start getting into arguments with them.
If you've invested in AMC. Fine you seem to have trust.
But is it necessary that everyone follows your vision?

Seriously it's like a Mac vs PC discussion here.
Where everyone is fighting but nobody is winning.

And the idea of cleaning up the thread seems like an awful move.
I fear this thread will turn into a "open" discussion where only praise is accepted.

[lolstate]

I fear this thread will turn into a "open" discussion where only praise is accepted.

What we need here is *serious* discussion. Ideally we can get rid of the likes of MM, Swede and Entropy and allow genuine comments of all types, whether negative, neutral or positive. I'd be delighted to hear real criticism that we can all engage with - if it was real - but alas the likes of MM have shown it often isn't.

[Deprived]

Steveioio, I'm close to putting you in the same bucket as MM, Swede and Entropy. I'll be watching carefully to see if you can stay on topic, or resort to spamming people with inane typing like they have.

I wont directly reply to this threat that adds nothing to the discussion. Pure spam.

lolstate role on this forum (this thread actualy, since he posted nowhere else) is to distract, derail debate and turn us naysayers into mere trolls
and spammers. He wants to pick a pointless fight and extend thread to thousands of pages of shit so that concerns and questions asked become
buried under nothing but crap and spam. Don't fall for it. Give sucker negative trust and ignore him, thanks!

I'll go with the majority view on this.

Seems a strange thing to say - as though you were the one with the ability to determine what happened.  Unless you're a sock-puppet of Ken's you have no option BUT to accept what Ken decides (which may or may not be the same thing as going with the majority view).

[lolstate]

Steveioio, I'm close to putting you in the same bucket as MM, Swede and Entropy. I'll be watching carefully to see if you can stay on topic, or resort to spamming people with inane typing like they have.

I wont directly reply to this threat that adds nothing to the discussion. Pure spam.

lolstate role on this forum (this thread actualy, since he posted nowhere else) is to distract, derail debate and turn us naysayers into mere trolls
and spammers. He wants to pick a pointless fight and extend thread to thousands of pages of shit so that concerns and questions asked become
buried under nothing but crap and spam. Don't fall for it. Give sucker negative trust and ignore him, thanks!

I'll go with the majority view on this.

Seems a strange thing to say - as though you were the one with the ability to determine what happened.  Unless you're a sock-puppet of Ken's you have no option BUT to accept what Ken decides (which may or may not be the same thing as going with the majority view).

No, I'm only saying I'm sure the community will come to the best decision. I'm eager to get on with it, whatever the decision is - new moderated thread or moderate this one, whatever.

[steveioio]

What we need here is *serious* discussion. Ideally we can get rid of the likes of MM, Swede and Entropy and allow genuine comments of all types, whether negative, neutral or positive. I'd be delighted to hear real criticism that we can all engage with - if it was real - but alas the likes of MM have shown it often isn't.

You couldn't be more wrong. What we need now are verifiable facts from Mr Slaughter. Not more discussion. Not more promises or predictions. Just facts. All the questions have been asked and from Mr Slaughter - silence.

[John818]

Steveioio, I'm close to putting you in the same bucket as MM, Swede and Entropy. I'll be watching carefully to see if you can stay on topic, or resort to spamming people with inane typing like they have.

I wont directly reply to this threat that adds nothing to the discussion. Pure spam.

lolstate role on this forum (this thread actualy, since he posted nowhere else) is to distract, derail debate and turn us naysayers into mere trolls
and spammers. He wants to pick a pointless fight and extend thread to thousands of pages of shit so that concerns and questions asked become
buried under nothing but crap and spam. Don't fall for it. Give sucker negative trust and ignore him, thanks!

More updates from Ken

"Have the documents scanned and redacted, waiting on PR approval."

A day passed, any update? No, of course. 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week or 1 month makes no difference when there is nothing to show.

A day has passed and he's not been to bed yet.  Could someone please hide his crack pipe, then we might get some peace.  I suppose he'd only wake up more bitter when the reality of his situation hit him.
He tried but failed in his own Bitcoin startup and from that day swore to himself that he would ensure that EVERY other business idea that had potential would see his wrath. 

The only scam I see here is this muppets attempt to scam all the genuine investors out of their future Bitcoins.

Please don't reply to me MagaMouth because I will not reply to you.  Ever.

[lolstate]

What we need here is *serious* discussion. Ideally we can get rid of the likes of MM, Swede and Entropy and allow genuine comments of all types, whether negative, neutral or positive. I'd be delighted to hear real criticism that we can all engage with - if it was real - but alas the likes of MM have shown it often isn't.

You couldn't be more wrong. What we need now are verifiable facts from Mr Slaughter. Not more discussion. Not more promises or predictions. Just facts. All the questions have been asked and from Mr Slaughter - silence.

Unfortunately, what seems to happen is people ask sensible questions of Ken, and while we wait for a response, the thread gets spammed by people whose only aim appears to be to disrupt it. I've lost track of all the sensible questions and concerns asked of Ken and whether there have been satisfactory answers because of the extreme signal-to-noise you helped to contribute to. An example was the insults you threw around when you refused to believe that 'weak hand' was a finance term without negative connotations. You are not the worst offender, steveioio, but I do question your sincerity.

Another major problem is the same questions that *have* been answered are asked over and over again. We really need a central FAQ where this stuff can be recorded, because the serial, unfolding nature of this forum thread isn't the best way to communicate this info.

Latest AMC share holdings on BitFunder over 100K:

20000000
9845216
2000000
1643032
1005641
647927
214522
203001
200000
187773
179000
150000
131000
128730
125700
106671
104044
101000
100977
100228
100126
100126
100126

 

[chsados]

Steveioio, I'm close to putting you in the same bucket as MM, Swede and Entropy. I'll be watching carefully to see if you can stay on topic, or resort to spamming people with inane typing like they have.

I wont directly reply to this threat that adds nothing to the discussion. Pure spam.

lolstate role on this forum (this thread actualy, since he posted nowhere else) is to distract, derail debate and turn us naysayers into mere trolls
and spammers. He wants to pick a pointless fight and extend thread to thousands of pages of shit so that concerns and questions asked become
buried under nothing but crap and spam. Don't fall for it. Give sucker negative trust and ignore him, thanks!

[stereotype]

AMC is second worst stock on BTCT, by score. Well deserved!

And the operator of Cognitive (Garr225) has been found to shill his own auctions by using sock puppets, and he has a score of 7.

This place is a farce, and wonder why people 'participate' more and more. Bitcointalk is the centre of all things Bitcoin is it?

[chsados]

Things that need to be answered directly from Ken.

The address is posted on the btct.co asset details page.

Office Address:

Active Mining Corporation
95 Wilton Road
Suite 3
London
SW1V 1BZ
United Kingdom
Fax: +44 (0)20 3004 1756

umm... lol?

Not sure where this address was found - is it a genuine AMC claimed address on their website?

Just a little research shows that this address and specifically 'Suite 3' was  used circa 2007  by Italian money launderers and scam artists some of who have been jailed for a multi-million pound internet fraud.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/02/422284.html?c=on

A link on that page shows the 'Suite 3' address is infamous in the arena of London-based scam companies (currently still registered as well as historic) many many of which have been set up claiming 'Suite 3' as their 'office'. Apparently there is probably no office or suite at the property just a seemingly very 'accommodating' Mail hosting operation.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/wsr-csr-corporation-worldwide-england-greater-london-c142076.html

What does this prove? Well it proves that AMC are pretending they have a London office that is infact a mailbox. It also proves AMC are using the exactly the same distancing and 'keeping anonymous' techniques that scam artists successfully use. Anything else? I have a question - Should a 25mill dollar business be using an anonymous mailbox as used by convicted scammers, or should they have a bit more transparency?

I don't like this whole VMC/AMC structure. Why are we risking everything to fund VMC's hardware project? Wouldn't it be better for VMC/AMC to be one entity and manufacture hardware and mine just like ASICMINER? I've been reading this thread since day 1 and there is so much drama, confusion and lack of transparency. Why can't we just keep it simple? Wouldn't it make more sense to have VMC/AMC operate under one roof. AMC can manufacture hardware and mine. AMC can use the hardware to mine or sell it if it will generate additional income on the side just like ASICMINER. With the mining revenue and hardware sales it will to back to the shareholders in dividends. The 20m in growth and expansion fund will then be used to continue manufacturing and selling more hardware. If more shares need to be released to raise funds for more growth and expansion then those shares can be released at the market price at that time. What do you guys think? Isn't this more easier to work with? Then AMC will be able to take in profits from mining and hardware sales and the investors will be happy and it will give the company more value.

I 100% agree with this.

The most worrying aspect of the whole setup, is why does VMC, and ultimately Ken, benefit 90% from hardware sales that AMC (read, US) invested in and funded.

I think if Ken were to change this aspect, it would greatly improve the investment in AMC for everyone, and new investors would come onboard instead of being worried about this strange aspect.

Do what ASICMINER is doing ... use the funds ... create the hardware ... use it to build a mining aspect, and sell the rest of the hardware.

THAT, makes sense.

And further, if Ken did do this, he shouldn't feel like he is backing down or will be looked upon badly, quite the opposite! It would add credibility for listening to shareholders and shows that he is truly looking after the shareholders interests. Which is his number 1 duty.

Can we get a response to this Ken? This would really give investors more confidence and transparency to what they are investing into. Possible investors would be less confused as well. ASICMINER has a good plan and business model and it works.

Would it be possible for Ken to re-write the original contract and get rid of a lot of wacky text that works only in his & VMC's favor? If this happened and there would be no more price manipulation and also dilution of shares.

I would want the cap set at a lower amount of shares. 40m sounds reasonable where 50% of the revenue goes back into grow and expansion and 50% goes back in dividends to shareholders. New shares that have yet to be released should be released at the market value at the time of the release. VMC/AMC should keep things simple like ASICMINER by mining and manufacturing hardware. This way investors are happy because they are investing into 100% of the business without us funding Ken's side project (VMC). Also i think this will eliminate all the heat being put on Ken and scaring away new investors. Sound reasonable guys?

I do however still consider there to be a vast amount of issues that need to be addressed before I can call AMC anything else then a "pretty damn close to a complete scam" based on a lot of the things brought up here. Starting with but not exclusively related to:

- pricing structure and expected profit margin
- ownership structure
- share structure
- ownership structure relating to profit and risk sharing related to VMC'S/AMC and Ken.
- listing practices and total share amount, listing time and dividend placement

[lolstate]

Things that need to be answered directly from Ken.

A lot of this stuff has been addressed. We are just going around in circles here. I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.

[steveioio]

A lot of this stuff has been addressed.

Nonsense - none of it has been addressed.

I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.

Blue Chip companies do not use mailboxes in side street shops. They have offices you can visit, they are regulated by government agencies, the company Directors publicly display their CV, home addresses registered, bank accounts audited, news release claims are independently verifiable for accuracy.

[lolstate]

A lot of this stuff has been addressed.

Nonsense - none of it has been addressed.

I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.

Blue Chip companies do not use mailboxes in side street shops. They have offices you can visit, they are regulated by government agencies, the company Directors publicly display their CV, home addresses registered, bank accounts audited, news release claims are independently verifiable for accuracy.

Dunno why you refuse to accept lots has been covered. It has been - go back and review this thread if you can hack through the noise 

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

[steveioio]

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Are you insane?

[lolstate]

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Are you insane?

You've started to spam again. You're added to the list  .

[Smidge]

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Are you insane?

You've started to spam again. You're added to the list  .

Please add me aswell, because I was about to ask you the same question. Thanks.

[chsados]

A lot of this stuff has been addressed.

Nonsense - none of it has been addressed.

I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.

Blue Chip companies do not use mailboxes in side street shops. They have offices you can visit, they are regulated by government agencies, the company Directors publicly display their CV, home addresses registered, bank accounts audited, news release claims are independently verifiable for accuracy.

Dunno why you refuse to accept lots has been covered. It has been - go back and review this thread if you can hack through the noise 

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Once again lolstate, you make claims that have no substance.  NONE of these have been addressed by Ken at all.