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Author Topic: [ANN] [ICO CLOSED] Inchain - insurance for the crypto economy  (Read 109150 times)
ttg43
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October 10, 2016, 09:15:13 PM
 #561

I think yes, because there was a bug in the smart contract, not in the Ethereum: http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/06/18/analysis-of-the-dao-exploit/

No bugs, couse CODE IS THE LAW  Roll Eyes
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October 10, 2016, 09:15:23 PM
 #562

Why is the legal structure of this ICO being compared to the DAO?

And what gives Inchain tokens value?
Because Inchain will be run by a DAO, so having the legal framework in place will be important for investors.

I didn;t realise that creating an Ethereum DAO was still possible after the DAO hack.



Is using ethereum safe after the hack?
Ethereum was never hacked. The DAO was. The Inchain DAO will require payouts to be approved by the insurance committee as I remember it.

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October 10, 2016, 09:15:32 PM
 #563

Why is the legal structure of this ICO being compared to the DAO?

And what gives Inchain tokens value?
Because Inchain will be run by a DAO, so having the legal framework in place will be important for investors.

I didn;t realise that creating an Ethereum DAO was still possible after the DAO hack.


Is using ethereum safe after the hack?
Some people think there was no hack, just bad smart contract.

Right, just read: http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/06/18/analysis-of-the-dao-exploit/

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October 10, 2016, 09:20:01 PM
 #564

Why is the legal structure of this ICO being compared to the DAO?

And what gives Inchain tokens value?
Because Inchain will be run by a DAO, so having the legal framework in place will be important for investors.

I didn;t realise that creating an Ethereum DAO was still possible after the DAO hack.



Why?

Becouse it proves that creating DAO on ethereum has vulnerabilities,
Unless inchain is investing heavily in security auditing of its DAO smart contract (which i doubt will be greater than slock.it), there is a chance that someone can find exploits/hacks in the code & steal all the funds. No, Ethereum would not do another rollback if this happened to Inchain.
I am not sure about the situation at the moment but i find it hard to believe that using an Ethereum DAO will be 100% exploit proof considering its only been a few months since an exploit was found in the DAO contract for a 150million dollar project.

Consult an Ethereum security expert i guess.

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October 10, 2016, 09:21:38 PM
 #565

Why is the legal structure of this ICO being compared to the DAO?

And what gives Inchain tokens value?
Because Inchain will be run by a DAO, so having the legal framework in place will be important for investors.

I didn;t realise that creating an Ethereum DAO was still possible after the DAO hack.



Is using ethereum safe after the hack?
Ethereum was never hacked. The DAO was. The Inchain DAO will require payouts to be approved by the insurance committee as I remember it.

Yes, we will use special consensus when smart contract only can initiate payout but it requires an approvement from insurance committee to be executed. Insurance committee includes Inchain DAO delegates designated by DAO voting.

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October 10, 2016, 09:22:22 PM
 #566

My network connect is poor, I will need to wait and watch the hangout replay on youtube later.
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October 10, 2016, 09:25:18 PM
 #567

I am not sure about the situation at the moment but i find it hard to believe that using an Ethereum DAO will be 100% exploit proof considering its only been a few months since the last exploit in the contract was found in a 150million dollar project.

Consult an Ethereum security expert i guess.
Is there any software solution in the universe with 100% guarantee it not will be hacked? A rhetorical question.
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October 10, 2016, 09:26:15 PM
 #568

Why is the legal structure of this ICO being compared to the DAO?

And what gives Inchain tokens value?
Because Inchain will be run by a DAO, so having the legal framework in place will be important for investors.

I didn;t realise that creating an Ethereum DAO was still possible after the DAO hack.



Why?

Becouse it proves that creating DAO on ethereum has vulnerabilities,
Unless inchain is investing heavily in security auditing of its DAO smart contract (which i doubt will be greater than slock.it), there is a chance that someone can find exploits/hacks in the code & steal all the funds. No, Ethereum would not do another rollback if this happened to Inchain.
I am not sure about the situation at the moment but i find it hard to believe that using an Ethereum DAO will be 100% exploit proof considering its only been a few months since the last exploit in the contract was found in a 150million dollar project.

Consult an Ethereum security expert i guess.

Of course we will audit all Inchain smart contracts using independent auditors and community. You can see it in Inchain roadmap in OP.

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JUSTDLISK
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October 10, 2016, 09:30:26 PM
Last edit: October 10, 2016, 09:51:00 PM by JUSTDLISK
 #569

I am not sure about the situation at the moment but i find it hard to believe that using an Ethereum DAO will be 100% exploit proof considering its only been a few months since the last exploit in the contract was found in a 150million dollar project.

Consult an Ethereum security expert i guess.
Is there any software solution in the universe with 100% guarantee it not will be hacked? A rhetorical question.

One of the reasons synereo is getting so much hype is becouse they will be creating alot safer smart contracts. The team describes Synereo's native smart contract language, Rholang (Reflective, Higher-Order process Language), as safer than similar languages like Ethereum's Solidity and more similar to established reflective programming languages like Java and C#.


You will have to wait a while to use Synereo so at the moment thats not on the cards.

Sergey_Inchain (OP)
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October 10, 2016, 09:33:17 PM
 #570

I am not sure about the situation at the moment but i find it hard to believe that using an Ethereum DAO will be 100% exploit proof considering its only been a few months since the last exploit in the contract was found in a 150million dollar project.

Consult an Ethereum security expert i guess.
Is there any software solution in the universe with 100% guarantee it not will be hacked? A rhetorical question.

I think so. The main Inchain task for preventing a possible hack is not only development very safe smart-contract, but also know what to do if it will be hacked.

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ttg43
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October 10, 2016, 09:41:13 PM
 #571

I am not sure about the situation at the moment but i find it hard to believe that using an Ethereum DAO will be 100% exploit proof considering its only been a few months since the last exploit in the contract was found in a 150million dollar project.

Consult an Ethereum security expert i guess.
Is there any software solution in the universe with 100% guarantee it not will be hacked? A rhetorical question.

I think so. The main Inchain task for preventing a possible hack is not only development very safe smart-contract, but also know what to do if it will be hacked.
Right, something like 2fa for smart contracts.
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October 10, 2016, 10:00:55 PM
 #572

http://themerkle.com/dao-attack-nullified-using-synereos-smart-contracting-language/



DAO Attack Nullified Using Synereo’s Smart Contracting Language

Designing expressive distributed protocols that can gracefully withstand attacks and manipulation is not a trivial task. Even solving a relatively simple use case, Bitcoin’s success in providing currency free of central control was certainly cause for celebration. When dealing with more complex problems, like financial contracts and governance, we have to step up our game.

Whether one believes the attack on the DAO was a problem in the contract or a flaw in Ethereum’s smart contracting language Solidity itself, it certainly highlights the need for better tools to help with the analysis of contracts deployed in mission-critical situations. To have such tools, a candidate for a smart contracting language needs to have a much greater level of precision in its specification. In fact, it needs a mathematically precise specification, usually called a formal semantics, to provide tools to analyze contracts that are to serve as dependable, production-quality services.

Without a formal semantics, it is impossible to reason about the code and specify what it does or to utilize any formal verification method to assure that it complies with any specification. For all intents and purposes, the only specification of Solidity’s semantics is its compiler to byte code for the Ethereum virtual machine (EVM). This compiler has not been formally verified. Likewise, the virtual machine running the code has not been verified, and so it is next to impossible to say anything meaningful about what contracts in Solidity are supposed to do.

Ethereum’s less rigorous approach has been cause for concern from day one, casually dismissed because most of us were ecstatic even just with the idea of a contracting system completely independent of any central entity or friction caused by middle-men. As has been predicted, we’re now at a point where a naive implementation free of a formal semantics can’t supply the sort of precision needed for proper analysis of mission-critical contracts. Further, as more and more smart contracts get written and deployed, it becomes more and more important to be able to analyze them, and even to analyze how they work together.

Synereo has been driving a mathematically rigorous approach to smart contracts since its inception so that it can provide the proper tool set for this kind of analysis. In a paper published by Jack Pettersson, Synereo’s language expert, and Greg Meredith, CTO, our approach is described through an example showing that Synereo’s Rholang smart contracting language would not allow the re-entrancy bug. This means that the security breach which allowed the attacker to drain The DAO of funds wouldn’t ever materialize in an equivalent Synereo implementation – all through automated checks during compilation.

Rholang is a language developed by Synereo specifically to support fine-grained concurrency inside smart contracts, with semantics derived from a mobile process calculus called the rho-calculus. As such, the Rholang compiler can use model checkers and theorem provers, useful particularly for checking and verifying contracts making use of concurrent and distributed processing of events. As Jack and Greg show, a modest type declaration, roughly similar to the kinds of types one finds in modern programming languages like Java and Scala, turns into a check in a model-checker — which when incorporated into the compiler pipeline as it is in Rholang — causes the compiler itself to prevent the malicious contract from ever existing in run-time.

Dao-Attack-info2

Before looking at some of the details, it’s useful to compare contract development to other fields. Consider the electrician’s job. Running current through a household is absolutely mission-critical. Get it wrong and the house burns down. There was a time when electricians were more like artisans, handcrafting wiring solutions, many of which were completely unsafe. Now, there are standardized components and best practices that not only allow electricians to assemble a wiring solution for a household out of well-understood components but also allow teams of electricians to cooperate to wire much larger buildings with power.

The approach Rholang adopts is a lot like that. Contracts and even smaller units of logic inside contracts use types to say whether it’s safe to plug things together. Programmers familiar with languages like Java, C# or other popular languages are very familiar with this approach to assembling programs out of components that come with descriptions for how to use them safely. The only new thing here is that Rholang’s types capture more information about what constitutes safe use.

How does it work?

In Rholang, developers may specify which contracts the applications they create can accept through defining the contracts’ behavioral types.

What are behavioral types? This is a new development in programming, where more information about the behavior and structure of the code is captured at a higher level than of the code itself. Types define certain rules and forms that the code must abide by; for example that an update to the contract’s state is carried out to completion before allowing the contract to be called on again.

The above, in essence, is the core of the flaw the attacker exploited in the DAO: the contract handling a request for withdrawal was called on again and again before it was allowed to finish updating its balance. In a concurrent setting, like Rholang, the update and the re-entrance to the contract are racing, and the compiler checks the type to see if such a race is considered safe. In Jack and Greg’s paper, the type for the contract explicitly declares that that race is not safe, and rightly so, the compiler rejects the contract code as not respecting the type. In the Solidity contract for the DAO, the problem is even worse because the code path for re-entering the contract is not just racing, it’s always favored over the completion of the update.

We wholeheartedly acknowledge that reasoning about concurrent and distributed computing is hard. The approach taken by Synereo looks to make developers’ lives easier, and in ways that don’t interrupt their flow. By integrating tools for compile-time formal verification and relying on behavioral types, we achieve three goals: 1, the developer gets two views of the program, one at the level of the code and another at the level of the type; 2, the compiler itself informs the developer that his intention, as manifested through the defined types, is not captured in the actual code; and 3, the verification is part of the development process. Developers are well accustomed to compilers type-checking their code.

This holistic view of formal verification as part of the development process from start to finish has other benefits. For example, it gives rise to a design-by-type discipline which, in the case of the DAO bug, would bring more attention to the essential issue. As we can see in the paper, the type abstracts away much of the details of the contract and focuses on where concurrency and non-determinism is allowed – and where it must be prevented. These, and other benefits of Synereo’s approach lend themselves well to creating completely decentralized applications and protocols which are both simple and robust.

In conclusion

It is only when the right tools are in place that we can expect the decentralized economy to materialize – and to start becoming relevant to people outside of the cryptocurrency movement.

Formal verification must become standard practice in mission-critical decentralized applications, in the finance realm and beyond. Alongside it, Synereo reputation mechanisms ensure humans are still involved in the mix, acting as sanity checks in edge cases that even the best-written code and most-refined contracts could not predict.

We believe our dialogue with Ethereum continues to be extremely fruitful and productive for the entire ecosystem. All of us can benefit from the different expertise each party can bring to the table. We believe Synereo has the leading platform for creating secure and scalable decentralized contracts and applications and are committed to bringing these tools to the developer community post-haste.


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October 10, 2016, 10:51:18 PM
 #573


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4) The whole bounty pool will be divided among the participants proportionally to the amount of their stakes.
How big is the whole bounty pool?

-
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October 10, 2016, 10:54:22 PM
 #574


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4) The whole bounty pool will be divided among the participants proportionally to the amount of their stakes.
How big is the whole bounty pool?

1.000.000 Inc

🚀IRRESISTIBLE "Crypto Collectibles" 👉 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=217.0
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October 10, 2016, 10:55:22 PM
 #575

Will there be any incentive to be on one of the committees?

Having people work for free rarely works well in the long run.
I am only thinking small rewards. Just enough to make sure they keep caring about the role they chose.

Perhaps small rewards for people suggesting upgrades and gets them approved by the DAO.

It would keep the Inchain DAO active and committed to improving Inchain.

It would also reward the people activly taking part in the governance while passive token holders would still gain the benefit of a better run Inchain.

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October 11, 2016, 09:16:32 AM
 #576


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4) The whole bounty pool will be divided among the participants proportionally to the amount of their stakes.
How big is the whole bounty pool?

1M Inchain tokens for all bounty campaigns. More details here: https://medium.com/@inchain/inchain-ico-structure-and-timeline-a7043d90daef

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October 11, 2016, 09:25:05 AM
 #577

Will there be any incentive to be on one of the committees?

Having people work for free rarely works well in the long run.
I am only thinking small rewards. Just enough to make sure they keep caring about the role they chose.

Perhaps small rewards for people suggesting upgrades and gets them approved by the DAO.

It would keep the Inchain DAO active and committed to improving Inchain.

It will be right to pay some additional rewards to committee members to motivate them. We already think about it.

It would also reward the people activly taking part in the governance while passive token holders would still gain the benefit of a better run Inchain.

It's a good Idea. Could you pls explain how do you see it?

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October 11, 2016, 09:35:33 AM
 #578

hello Inchain community, when ico start? whether still pending?
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October 11, 2016, 09:40:46 AM
 #579

hello Inchain community, when ico start? whether still pending?

Hi, we postpone ICO for 2 weeks because we must decide the legal status of Inchain to prevent any legal troubles for Inchain project and for Inchain investors.
More info here: https://medium.com/@inchain/postponing-the-start-of-our-ico-for-two-weeks-a35c92d2a272

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October 11, 2016, 09:47:53 AM
 #580

hello Inchain community, when ico start? whether still pending?

Hi, we postpone ICO for 2 weeks because we must decide the legal status of Inchain to prevent any legal troubles for Inchain project and for Inchain investors.
More info here: https://medium.com/@inchain/postponing-the-start-of-our-ico-for-two-weeks-a35c92d2a272
well i understand, good luck Smiley
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