First BFL ASIC!

[AndyRossy]

"Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013"

Distinctly says ship.

Holy crap, can people not read a webpage? Look at the terms, not the title. The title is a hook for advertising. It's not binding in any way. The terms of the bet define the bet contract, not the title. It has two simple conditions which have been met except for the post timestamp.

OK so they didnt meet the "terms", or the title?
 

[1715226934]

1715226934

[1715226934]

1715226934

[1715226934]

1715226934

[Frizz23]

25GH for a mini single which draws 179W, almost the same power consumption as avalon, ...

Inaba/BFL_Josh wrote earlier this year:
"Avalon is 110nm ... I think they are using QFN ... We were fighting 60w of heat (granted, on a much smaller surface area) and it was a problem, I can't imagine trying to fight 300w of heat. For their sakes, I hope they have already considered these issues or it's going to be a nasty surprise the first time they turn a unit on and the chips start popping and letting the magic smoke out."

So, Josh, does this mean you have a problem now?  

[AndyRossy]

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=701


For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.


It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!

Nope, it's a picture from their development - please look at the youtube, post was after APRIL FIRST

[Fjordbit]

This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

Exactly, Luke-Jr is not an employee. You'll see that I referenced this requirement in my second to last post.

[mobodick]

I don't see how getting a unit to Luke-Jr is anything remotely like shipping.

This! Shipping means customers getting ordered retail units. I don't get whats there to debate about this.

The debate is because the betsofbitcoin bet does not require either of those. It simply requires a non-BFL employee to post pictures to bitcointalk of a hashing unit with a hashrate within 75% of advertised rate. The bet has been technically fulfilled, except for a question on the timestamp of the post and whether the bet applies to Eastern Time or any time zone.

All of this is completely useless for indications of shipping outside of that bet, except that it does show that true shipping will happen soon, and that bfgminer will support it.

I don't agree as the word 'device' used in the bet means to me a device like the one BFL has on the pictures on their sales page. All i see in the pictures is the same prototype device.

Another thing that bugs me is that Luke was put into service by BFL a while back so he could work on their product. During this time he stayed in a hotel. If the money for the hotel was payed out of BFLs pocket i see this as a compensation for his involvement with the product and that would make him a BFL employee by my definition.

[Fjordbit]

I don't agree as the word 'device' used in the bet means to me a device like the one BFL has on the pictures on their sales page. All i see in the pictures is the same prototype device.

Another thing that bugs me is that Luke was put into service by BFL a while back so he could work on their product. During this time he stayed in a hotel. If the money was payed out of BFLs pocket i see this as a compensation for his involvement with the product and that would make him a BFL employee by my definition.

I would not confuse paying hotelling expenses for a client or business partner (which Luke-Jr is both) with being an employee. Every company I've ever worked at has expensed out visiting clients, and I myself have been expensed by other companies for various reason, for example Sun Microsystems for a Java product technology demonstration in 1996. If there was any kind of employee relationship in any of those cases, I would have been in violation of federal law, but I wasn't because paying expenses for a visit constitutes no such relationship.

As far as device goes, the bet is poorly worded and in general poorly formed. It too loosely defines device, and since this is the final device that Luke-Jr is getting to fulfill this order with BFL, it appears to be fulfilled.

[Clearfly]

There is a difference between being an 'Employee' and a 'Contractor'

[Fjordbit]

There is a difference between being an 'Employee' and a 'Contractor'

True, but he's not even a contractor. I would bet a bitcoin that BFL is not going to send him a 1099, nor are they required to.

[mobodick]

I don't agree as the word 'device' used in the bet means to me a device like the one BFL has on the pictures on their sales page. All i see in the pictures is the same prototype device.

Another thing that bugs me is that Luke was put into service by BFL a while back so he could work on their product. During this time he stayed in a hotel. If the money was payed out of BFLs pocket i see this as a compensation for his involvement with the product and that would make him a BFL employee by my definition.

I would not confuse paying hotelling expenses for a client or business partner (which Luke-Jr is both) with being an employee. Every company I've ever worked at has expensed out visiting clients, and I myself have been expensed by other companies for various reason, for example Sun Microsystems for a Java product technology demonstration in 1996. If there was any kind of employee relationship in any of those cases, I would have been in violation of federal law, but I wasn't because paying expenses for a visit constitutes no such relationship.

As far as device goes, the bet is poorly worded and in general poorly formed. It too loosely defines device, and since this is the final device that Luke-Jr is getting to fulfill this order with BFL, it appears to be fulfilled.

It was payed in exchange of an expectation of Luke doing work on their unfinished product.
This is an arrangement of payment for work, which is employment.
If BFL at any point said to Luke: "Come on over to work on the software and we'll pay for the hotel" then that is a verbal contract.

I think the major hinge is that BFL needs (someone like) Luke to finish the product. In that respect you can only see Lukes visit as a form of employment, even if they payed him in smiles.

[GenTarkin]

my gosh, that thing is nowhere near its performance / watt. If the board were being overdriven(which obviously it is) that would explain the tinyass heatsinks everywhere. Im not an elec engineer but I would suspect those smaller heatsinks wouldnt be needed if it was closer to its target performance would they?
So far, its pretty close to the power efficiency of an avy. Imagine if it is a die by die variance, this also might not even be the worse =P, there could be better, but may be even worse.

[Bogart]

Well Avalon delivered 1-3 prototype units, @more than their advertised power consumption, just so they could say they shipped before March 1st. Then used Batch#2 funds to produce their Batch#1 orders.

On those grounds the BFL 'Yes' vote wins  

Those were finished units installed in cases, which achieved their full advertised hashrate, and were actually delivered to customers.

Luke's units are sitting naked on a bench at BFL, hashing at less than 50% their advertised speed.

The pictures were also clearly posted after the deadline, so by the terms of the bet, the outcome would be "false".

[Bogart]

There is a difference between being an 'Employee' and a 'Contractor'

True, but he's not even a contractor. I would bet a bitcoin that BFL is not going to send him a 1099, nor are they required to.

Surely he's receiving some form of compensation, be it dollars, BTC, or free hardware.

Even just having his order bumped to the head of the queue holds substantial value (at the expense of the rest of the customers).

[Fjordbit]

I think the major hinge is that BFL needs (someone like) Luke to finish the product. In that respect you can only see Lukes visit as a form of employment, even if they payed him in smiles.

What? No they don't. They promised ASIC mining devices, not mining software.

Again, I went to Sun Microsystems in 1996 to do a tech demo of a Java product my company was working on. At their facility, they gave us early access to the now failed Java workstations to test our product on. You could say that Sun needed some like me to work on Java applications for their Java platform to be viable, but at no time was I ever employed by Sun and indicating as such on my resume would be considered fraud.

[yuancraft]

i don't care, just buy 2 more  hope they will scam

[mobodick]

I think the major hinge is that BFL needs (someone like) Luke to finish the product. In that respect you can only see Lukes visit as a form of employment, even if they payed him in smiles.

What? No they don't. They promised ASIC mining devices, not mining software.

Again, I went to Sun Microsystems in 1996 to do a tech demo of a Java product my company was working on. At their facility, they gave us early access to the now failed Java workstations to test our product on. You could say that Sun needed some like me to work on Java applications for their Java platform to be viable, but at no time was I ever employed by Sun and indicating as such on my resume would be considered fraud.

The device, as advertized by BFL, includes software as well as hardware.
Part of this software was written by Luke, as far as i understand it.

[mobodick]

I think the major hinge is that BFL needs (someone like) Luke to finish the product. In that respect you can only see Lukes visit as a form of employment, even if they payed him in smiles.

What? No they don't. They promised ASIC mining devices, not mining software.

Again, I went to Sun Microsystems in 1996 to do a tech demo of a Java product my company was working on. At their facility, they gave us early access to the now failed Java workstations to test our product on. You could say that Sun needed some like me to work on Java applications for their Java platform to be viable, but at no time was I ever employed by Sun and indicating as such on my resume would be considered fraud.

Yeah, maybe you'll now understand why multinationals like Sun have whole departments of lawyers that deal specifically with the legal situation of exchanging information with external parties. You probably had to sign some form of NDA to be able to attend that presentation. And you probably don't even know what was written there.
The fact that you had this encounter with Sun is pretty meaningless in this case because Sun has legal facilities to make these exchanges possible in the first place.

I'm pretty sure no such care was taken by BFL.

[Lethos]

I just read up on this particular bet, but the short answer is I don't think it qualifies as "won" by BFL.

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

Statted Specs: ~30W & ~30Gh/s (still on website)
Specs expected to see: ~180W & ~25Gh/s (according to photos)

• • Post before April 1st 2013 - Questionable, since no time zone was stated in the terms, but Eastern Time was set for Event date.
  • Luke apparently is a customer, with an established forum account, thus establishing a baseline for credibility.
  • Detailed and Credible photos - This is not true. Photos are not taken by Luke, thus can't be proven to be credible.
  • Photos do show a phototype looking device hashing - So some evidence is shown something exists that hashes.
  • Luke Jr was apparently commissioned to help with mining software (supplied with unit) - Is at the least, not a normal customer, could be classed as an employee.
• • Device hashes at 75% of advertised hashrate - Apparently yes.
  • However since the Power usage is 5x higher and their being two on display, it might not be true that one device, once assembled would do within 75% of it's stated speed.

Final Verdicted: BFL failed.
Major:

• Didn't meet deadline (just)
• Potentially an employee is the source of said "evidence"

Minor:

• Non credible photos (taken by some other than poster - BFL [JOSH] )
• Advertised hashrate is in question.

[JerimiahJohnson]

LOL


Nice april fools joke luke!

Those are BFL singles with the cases off.

You think Luke couldn't change cgminer or bfgminer to display the incorrect speed?

c'mon I can't believe how many people fell for this one. hahahaha


seriously that was a really good one.


-JJ

[bonker]

April 1st -> thread about BFL delivering..


2 + 2 = It's a fucking joke!

[Luke-Jr]

For this bet to be won tho, there needs to be a shipping label and/or tracking number.

There is, but I'd prefer not to give the trolls my personal info.

Also "The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate."  Which product was your order for Luke?  A Single or a Little Single?

This is my Little Single.

I guess luke has a bet and is being desperate?

I am not a party to any bets. (although I probably would be if I knew whether it was legal in Kansas)

Another thing that bugs me is that Luke was put into service by BFL a while back so he could work on their product. During this time he stayed in a hotel. If the money for the hotel was payed out of BFLs pocket i see this as a compensation for his involvement with the product and that would make him a BFL employee by my definition.

Your definition is irrelevant. An employee means "one employed by another usually for wages or salary and in a position below the executive level" in English. The legal definition is more specific, and makes it completely clear that I am not an employee.