First BFL ASIC!

[creativex]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

+1
Boycott BoB

Boycott BoB, BFL, and Luke Jr.

[Frizz23]

Boycott BoB, BFL, and Luke Jr.

+1

[Luke-Jr]

Yeah, boycott me because I got a device I paid for. Makes so much sense.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Yeah, boycott me because I got a device I paid for. Makes so much sense.

Do you agree that the bet was lost?

[Minor Miner]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

+1
Boycott BoB

Boycott BoB, BFL, and Luke Jr.

I like Luke Jr. though.   I think he is being misled, I do not think he is part of the BFL scheme.

[tbd]

Yeah, boycott me because I got a device I paid for. Makes so much sense.

You have repeatedly made statements, perhaps unintentionally, that are misleading.  Such as implying (and updating the Wiki) that BFL is shipping ASIC based devices, when their own website lists them as not shipping until the end of April.  No individual unaffiliated with BFL has received a device, and as you are compensated by BFL you are hardly impartial.

Can you provide a dated invoice for your order, or other proof of payment?

[Gator-hex]

Yeah, boycott me because I got a device I paid for. Makes so much sense.

Do you agree that the bet was lost?

Like I said, I'll probably have them ship it to me when the rest of my order is ready to go as well. I certainly prefer they NOT ship it until at least the next difficulty adjustment

Well he agrees it wasn't "shipped" straight from the horses mouth.

It never left the BFL building, "co-location" was not the bet.

[muyuu]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

+1
Boycott BoB

Boycott BoB, BFL, and Luke Jr.

I like Luke Jr. though.   I think he is being misled, I do not think he is part of the BFL scheme.

Likewise. Luke is sound. Sometimes a bit nutty, but honest and intelligent.

[muyuu]

Not to get too far afield, but shipping an unfinished product just to get it "finished" / meet a deadline is EXACTLY what happened in SimCity's case, as far as I can tell.

Nope, users couldn't fix it.

They might have used them as alpha testers, but not as coders.

That was bad enough though, I give you that.

But what happened here is more like EA sent the code for bug fixing and said "shipped! haha! for bug fixing"

[DataPlumber]

Not to get too far afield, but shipping an unfinished product just to get it "finished" / meet a deadline is EXACTLY what happened in SimCity's case, as far as I can tell.

Nope, users couldn't fix it.

They might have used them as alpha testers, but not as coders.

That was bad enough though, I give you that.

But what happened here is more like EA sent the code for bug fixing and said "shipped! haha! for bug fixing"

It does feel a lot more like "shipping a test unit to a vendor" than "shipping a early-release unit to a customer".

[tbd]

For the record, these Wiki edits were done to back out the changes Luke-Jr made:

(cur | prev) 05:32, 3 April 2013‎ Gmaxwell (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (144,662 bytes) (-1)‎ . . (Luke using one remotely for development is not shipping.)
(cur | prev) 05:31, 3 April 2013‎ Gmaxwell (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (144,663 bytes) (-36)‎ . . ("Any day now" is misleading people, BFL has been "any day now" for a very long time. Besides, an order placed today won't ship until June according to BFL (and I assume thats June in BFL time, which means sometime in 2014))

[Bogart]

Crossposting:

At this point I'll go ahead and reveal that I am the bet's creator, and that I initially took a large position on the "True" side.  By ruling the way they did, BoB effectively took from me over 150 BTC in potential winnings and commissions that I feel should rightfully be mine.

Sure, I made mistakes when I made the bet (which BoB had an opportunity to correct when they approved the bet), but I still feel like "True" is pretty clearly the correct outcome, based on multiple points.  Some of those being:

• BFL shipped nothing.  The bet title clearly is about BFL *shipping* a Bitforce SC product.  Coinjedi has said himself that the bet title is a part of the bet. [1]

• The pictures were posted after midnight.  No matter whether you go by GMT, Eastern time (official BoB time [2]), or Central time (which I believe is BFL time and also Luke-Jr time).  Sure, the pics were arguably taken before midnight, but the bet clearly says they had to be *posted* before April.

• The pictures were not credible.  They were taken by Josh/Inaba, a BFL employee, and were of a device that was pretty clearly sitting on a test bench at BFL.  The bet clearly says the pictures must be credible.

• The pictures claim to show a product hashing at about 25GH/s, which Luke-Jr says in a Little Single.  There was no such thing as a Little Single when the bet was made.  The 3 Bitforce SC products the bet concerns, and their hashrates concerning the bet are those listed in the post linked in the Bet.

• It is not clear whether or not Luke-jr is a BFL employee.  He continues to not answer when asked if he is/has received compensation from BFL. [3]  At the least, it looks like he's getting his order bumped to the front of the line.

My position appears to be overwhelmingly supported by public opinion on the forums. [4]  Opinion Coinjedi solicited I might add.

Sure BoB (and Luke-Jr and Josh/Inaba and BFL) will lose face over this, but that does nothing to fill my wallet, and history is quickly forgotten.

I'm feeling cheated and a little butthurt about it.  Wouldn't you?






[1]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.msg1726858#msg1726858

[2]: http://betsofbitco.in/help, in "What is the difference between deadline and event date?": "All dates refer to end of day Eastern Time."

[3]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.msg1729969#msg1729969

[4]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=165902.0

[Micon]

Crossposting:

At this point I'll go ahead and reveal that I am the bet's creator, and that I initially took a large position on the "True" side.  By ruling the way they did, BoB effectively took from me over 150 BTC in potential winnings and commissions that I feel should rightfully be mine.

Sure, I made mistakes when I made the bet (which BoB had an opportunity to correct when they approved the bet), but I still feel like "True" is pretty clearly the correct outcome, based on multiple points.  Some of those being:

• BFL shipped nothing.  The bet title clearly is about BFL *shipping* a Bitforce SC product.  Coinjedi has said himself that the bet title is a part of the bet. [1]

• The pictures were posted after midnight.  No matter whether you go by GMT, Eastern time (official BoB time [2]), or Central time (which I believe is BFL time and also Luke-Jr time).  Sure, the pics were arguably taken before midnight, but the bet clearly says they had to be *posted* before April.

• The pictures were not credible.  They were taken by Josh/Inaba, a BFL employee, and were of a device that was pretty clearly sitting on a test bench at BFL.  The bet clearly says the pictures must be credible.

• The pictures claim to show a product hashing at about 25GH/s, which Luke-Jr says in a Little Single.  There was no such thing as a Little Single when the bet was made.  The 3 Bitforce SC products the bet concerns, and their hashrates concerning the bet are those listed in the post linked in the Bet.

• It is not clear whether or not Luke-jr is a BFL employee.  He continues to not answer when asked if he is/has received compensation from BFL. [3]  At the least, it looks like he's getting his order bumped to the front of the line.

My position appears to be overwhelmingly supported by public opinion on the forums. [4]  Opinion Coinjedi solicited I might add.

Sure BoB (and Luke-Jr and Josh/Inaba and BFL) will lose face over this, but that does nothing to fill my wallet, and history is quickly forgotten.

I'm feeling cheated and a little butthurt about it.  Wouldn't you?






[1]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.msg1726858#msg1726858

[2]: http://betsofbitco.in/help, in "What is the difference between deadline and event date?": "All dates refer to end of day Eastern Time."

[3]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.msg1729969#msg1729969

[4]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=165902.0

1)  well said.

2)  Coinjedi's silence on this matter is deafening.  He made the wrong decision,  everyone but the most hardcore BFL supporters agreed.  He chose to ignore all of this and continue, bet was declared a draw and he's on to the next one.

3) Theymos ruled that coinjedi / BoB are not scammers.

so it's up to us, the angry masses, to boycott BoB publicly and loudly, and never allow coinjedi to forget how he fucked some gamblers out of ~$30k+ when delimited in USD.

[muyuu]

Bogart, I have not put any money in this bet, but I feel for you.

This is total bollocks. If they are not corrupt, at the very least their judgement is extremely questionable.

BTW, Luke seems to agree:

Well this will be interesting.... Lets see if BoB try to Push this one

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1352

Butterfly Labs Will Ship Before Mid-April 2013
Butterfly Labs (BFL_Josh) have stated that the first shipment will be dispatched before the last week of March 2013.

To qualify as a 'Agree', a Butterfly Labs customer must acknowledge receipt of an ASIC unit, test it and have it perform within advertised specifications by the 14th April 2013. The post confirming the status has to be on either BitcoinTalk or Butterfly Labs forums with conclusive evidence (video etc)

All Butterfly Labs employees or affiliates are discounted.

1: Although 1 person has 'received' a BFL ASIC (Luke-Jr) he is an affiliate at this point in time (as a developer working on software for the ASICs).

2: "Must perform within advertised specifications"..... well BFL changed the advertised specs today (https://products.butterflylabs.com/ upping the price whilst dropping the specs..... classy!).

3. At the time of the bet opening it was not known that the power consumption was over the limit (another failure for advertised specs).


I will be interested to know if a Push will be declared.

This bet is clearly already lost for the pro-BFL side. There is no way they're meeting advertised specs exactly, and they're current schedule says late April.

[SgtSpike]

Crossposting:

At this point I'll go ahead and reveal that I am the bet's creator, and that I initially took a large position on the "True" side.  By ruling the way they did, BoB effectively took from me over 150 BTC in potential winnings and commissions that I feel should rightfully be mine.

Sure, I made mistakes when I made the bet (which BoB had an opportunity to correct when they approved the bet), but I still feel like "True" is pretty clearly the correct outcome, based on multiple points.  Some of those being:

• BFL shipped nothing.  The bet title clearly is about BFL *shipping* a Bitforce SC product.  Coinjedi has said himself that the bet title is a part of the bet. [1]

• The pictures were posted after midnight.  No matter whether you go by GMT, Eastern time (official BoB time [2]), or Central time (which I believe is BFL time and also Luke-Jr time).  Sure, the pics were arguably taken before midnight, but the bet clearly says they had to be *posted* before April.

• The pictures were not credible.  They were taken by Josh/Inaba, a BFL employee, and were of a device that was pretty clearly sitting on a test bench at BFL.  The bet clearly says the pictures must be credible.

• The pictures claim to show a product hashing at about 25GH/s, which Luke-Jr says in a Little Single.  There was no such thing as a Little Single when the bet was made.  The 3 Bitforce SC products the bet concerns, and their hashrates concerning the bet are those listed in the post linked in the Bet.

• It is not clear whether or not Luke-jr is a BFL employee.  He continues to not answer when asked if he is/has received compensation from BFL. [3]  At the least, it looks like he's getting his order bumped to the front of the line.

My position appears to be overwhelmingly supported by public opinion on the forums. [4]  Opinion Coinjedi solicited I might add.

Sure BoB (and Luke-Jr and Josh/Inaba and BFL) will lose face over this, but that does nothing to fill my wallet, and history is quickly forgotten.

I'm feeling cheated and a little butthurt about it.  Wouldn't you?






[1]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.msg1726858#msg1726858

[2]: http://betsofbitco.in/help, in "What is the difference between deadline and event date?": "All dates refer to end of day Eastern Time."

[3]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.msg1729969#msg1729969

[4]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=165902.0

I agree with you, but Luke Jr is clearly not an employee as defined by law.  If you're going to take the bet at the literal word-for-word interpretation, then you need to use the lawful definition of an employee.  Just because he might have been compensated for work does NOT make him an employee of BFL.  That sort of one-time job very much fits the definition of an independent contractor.

That said, I agree with you on all other points.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Has the bet already been paid to the otherwise losing side?

[Syke]

Has the bet already been paid to the otherwise losing side?

The bet was delcared a draw. BoB took their cut, and refunded the rest back to both sides.

[Bowjob]

Has the bet already been paid to the otherwise losing side?

The bet was delcared a draw. BoB took their cut, and refunded the rest back to both sides.

Wow... they took 5%??? Scammer tag!!

[Fiyasko]

Has the bet already been paid to the otherwise losing side?

The bet was delcared a draw. BoB took their cut, and refunded the rest back to both sides.

Wow... they took 5%??? Scammer tag!!

This is exactly what all the rage is about, It was totally crooked to say it was a Draw, when one side should have won.

[coinnewb]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

+1
Boycott BoB

Boycott BoB, BFL, and Luke Jr.

I like Luke Jr. though.   I think he is being misled, I do not think he is part of the BFL scheme.

+1