Offering PayPal for Bitcoin? You're likely to be labeled a scammer - Read why

[GotRedCandy]

While I understand paypal, why is it so damn hard to get it via western union?

[Nejuf]

Love it or hate it, PayPal is pretty damn convenient and this means it's not going anywhere for now.

Conversely, getting BTC is pretty inconvenient in comparison, and until this changes PP will continue to dominate the online payment industry.

Exactly. Plus bitcoin transactions can't be disputed. That's great if you're a merchant or a criminal, but if you are the poor slob who had your BTC stolen (or the merchant didn't deliver after you paid) you have no recourse.

At least a credit card company will help you get your money back if you get taken for a ride by a shady merchant.

The credit card companies and banks only help because they have a stake in it as well.  One loses money to them on a regular basis for charges on this or that.  So it's not really all that different from losing on a bad deal every now and then. 

[Coincrazy]

While I understand paypal, why is it so damn hard to get it via western union?

From where I am to get it into USA it takes Lmost 3 % commission and some bad exchange rates as well

Plus a lot of personal data if the amount exceeds some value ( differs country to country )

Western union handles the "unbanked " world ...i.e say when an new immigrant ( say to USA ) wants to send money to his grandma  in some developing world country ....... Not for two people who are Internet savvy and having bank accounts

I called local money gram and western union and was surprised by their rates ....both in the order of 3% for just a one way transfer

[sv4ol84a6v79a46ilby]

What about gift paypal paments? Quick easy no seller commision and unreversible

Absolutely true. Paypal BLATANTLY REFUSES to refund ANY TRANSACTION THAT IS NOT FOR A PHYSICAL PRODUCT.

I just learned this scam when I payed for a premium account at guru.com and they IMMEDIATELY DELETED MY ACCOUNT AND STOLE MY $35. I tried to refund with PayPal, but PayPal said NO WE REFUSE TO OFFER YOU A REFUND BECAUSE IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL PRODUCT WHERE WE CAN VERIFY TRACKING. The refund was DECLINED and I was subsequently NOT ALLOWED TO OPEN ANOTHER DISPUTE.

I went to my bank, and they also refused to refund, and send me to the fraud department where I could mail in a form saying that I was defrauded. But I still don't know if even my bank will refund the money.

So anyone who says "you could be scammed in PayPal" has NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Paypal WILL NOT FORCE A REFUND UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

I don't know much about bitcoin, but I do know it is NOT a physical product which means it is IMPOSSIBLE TO REVERSE. AND NOT JUST GIFT PAYMENTS - ANY TRANSACTION WHICH IS NOT FOR A PRODUCT CANNOT BE REVERSED.

The only person who can be scammed in PayPal for a SERVICE OR INTANGIBLE PRODUCT is the one Sending Money, not the ones receiving it. Because the seller could refuse to send the item or service that was paid for, without any way to get their money back because paypal will DECLINE ANY DISPUTE AND WILL NOT FORCE A REFUND.

SAFE METHODS TO USE PAYPAL:

If you are THE ONE PAYING FOR THE ITEM (BUYER) and you have ALREADY RECEIVED THE ITEM, then PayPal is PERFECTLY SAFE because there is NO WAY THE SELLER CAN REVERSE THE CHARGES.

If you are THE SELLER, and you have ALREADY RECEIVED THE MONEY then it is SAFE TO SEND THE ITEM with PayPal.


DANGEROUS WAYS TO USE PAYPAL:

If you are THE BUYER and you have concerns that YOU MIGHT NOT RECEIVE WHAT YOU PAID FOR, then it is DANGEROUS to use PayPal in this case.

If you are THE SELLER and you have CONCERNS THAT YOU MIGHT NOT GET PAID AFTER SENDING THE ITEM, then it is DANGEROUS to use PayPal in this case.


IN SHORT

If you have ALREADY RECEIVED your end of the deal, THEN YOU ARE SAFE. Now it's up to you to be honest.

If you have NOT RECEIVED your end of the deal, THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE, if you send then their end first.


TIPS WHEN USING PAYPAL

If using PayPal and you are afraid the payment may be disputed, ALWAYS USE GIFT PAYMENTS. Gift payments CANNOT be disputed.

[Coincrazy]

What about gift paypal paments? Quick easy no seller commision and unreversible

Absolutely true. Paypal BLATANTLY REFUSES to refund ANY TRANSACTION THAT IS NOT FOR A PHYSICAL PRODUCT.

I just learned this scam when I payed for a premium account at guru.com and they IMMEDIATELY DELETED MY ACCOUNT AND STOLE MY $35. I tried to refund with PayPal, but PayPal said NO WE REFUSE TO OFFER YOU A REFUND BECAUSE IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL PRODUCT WHERE WE CAN VERIFY TRACKING. The refund was DECLINED and I was subsequently NOT ALLOWED TO OPEN ANOTHER DISPUTE.

I went to my bank, and they also refused to refund, and send me to the fraud department where I could mail in a form saying that I was defrauded. But I still don't know if even my bank will refund the money.

So anyone who says "you could be scammed in PayPal" has NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Paypal WILL NOT FORCE A REFUND UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

I don't know much about bitcoin, but I do know it is NOT a physical product which means it is IMPOSSIBLE TO REVERSE. AND NOT JUST GIFT PAYMENTS - ANY TRANSACTION WHICH IS NOT FOR A PRODUCT CANNOT BE REVERSED.

The only person who can be scammed in PayPal for a SERVICE OR INTANGIBLE PRODUCT is the one Sending Money, not the ones receiving it. Because the seller could refuse to send the item or service that was paid for, without any way to get their money back because paypal will DECLINE ANY DISPUTE AND WILL NOT FORCE A REFUND.

SAFE METHODS TO USE PAYPAL:

If you are THE ONE PAYING FOR THE ITEM (BUYER) and you have ALREADY RECEIVED THE ITEM, then PayPal is PERFECTLY SAFE because there is NO WAY THE SELLER CAN REVERSE THE CHARGES.

If you are THE SELLER, and you have ALREADY RECEIVED THE MONEY then it is SAFE TO SEND THE ITEM with PayPal.


DANGEROUS WAYS TO USE PAYPAL:

If you are THE BUYER and you have concerns that YOU MIGHT NOT RECEIVE WHAT YOU PAID FOR, then it is DANGEROUS to use PayPal in this case.

If you are THE SELLER and you have CONCERNS THAT YOU MIGHT NOT GET PAID AFTER SENDING THE ITEM, then it is DANGEROUS to use PayPal in this case.


IN SHORT

If you have ALREADY RECEIVED your end of the deal, THEN YOU ARE SAFE. Now it's up to you to be honest.

If you have NOT RECEIVED your end of the deal, THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE, if you send then their end first.


TIPS WHEN USING PAYPAL

If using PayPal and you are afraid the payment may be disputed, ALWAYS USE GIFT PAYMENTS. Gift payments CANNOT be disputed.

I wish more people thought like you

I think the exchanges have a vested interest in scarring the shutout of the direct seller buyer so they call PayPal a scam

[sv4ol84a6v79a46ilby]

What about gift paypal paments? Quick easy no seller commision and unreversible

Absolutely true. Paypal BLATANTLY REFUSES to refund ANY TRANSACTION THAT IS NOT FOR A PHYSICAL PRODUCT.

I just learned this scam when I payed for a premium account at guru.com and they IMMEDIATELY DELETED MY ACCOUNT AND STOLE MY $35. I tried to refund with PayPal, but PayPal said NO WE REFUSE TO OFFER YOU A REFUND BECAUSE IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL PRODUCT WHERE WE CAN VERIFY TRACKING. The refund was DECLINED and I was subsequently NOT ALLOWED TO OPEN ANOTHER DISPUTE.

I went to my bank, and they also refused to refund, and send me to the fraud department where I could mail in a form saying that I was defrauded. But I still don't know if even my bank will refund the money.

So anyone who says "you could be scammed in PayPal" has NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Paypal WILL NOT FORCE A REFUND UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

I don't know much about bitcoin, but I do know it is NOT a physical product which means it is IMPOSSIBLE TO REVERSE. AND NOT JUST GIFT PAYMENTS - ANY TRANSACTION WHICH IS NOT FOR A PRODUCT CANNOT BE REVERSED.

The only person who can be scammed in PayPal for a SERVICE OR INTANGIBLE PRODUCT is the one Sending Money, not the ones receiving it. Because the seller could refuse to send the item or service that was paid for, without any way to get their money back because paypal will DECLINE ANY DISPUTE AND WILL NOT FORCE A REFUND.

SAFE METHODS TO USE PAYPAL:

If you are THE ONE PAYING FOR THE ITEM (BUYER) and you have ALREADY RECEIVED THE ITEM, then PayPal is PERFECTLY SAFE because there is NO WAY THE SELLER CAN REVERSE THE CHARGES.

If you are THE SELLER, and you have ALREADY RECEIVED THE MONEY then it is SAFE TO SEND THE ITEM with PayPal.


DANGEROUS WAYS TO USE PAYPAL:

If you are THE BUYER and you have concerns that YOU MIGHT NOT RECEIVE WHAT YOU PAID FOR, then it is DANGEROUS to use PayPal in this case.

If you are THE SELLER and you have CONCERNS THAT YOU MIGHT NOT GET PAID AFTER SENDING THE ITEM, then it is DANGEROUS to use PayPal in this case.


IN SHORT

If you have ALREADY RECEIVED your end of the deal, THEN YOU ARE SAFE. Now it's up to you to be honest.

If you have NOT RECEIVED your end of the deal, THEN YOU ARE NOT SAFE, if you send then their end first.


TIPS WHEN USING PAYPAL

If using PayPal and you are afraid the payment may be disputed, ALWAYS USE GIFT PAYMENTS. Gift payments CANNOT be disputed.

I wish more people thought like you

I think the exchanges have a vested interest in scarring the shutout of the direct seller buyer so they call PayPal a scam

Well if more people were smart and used their brains instead of just believing everything they read without verifying its validity, then the people would have more power and freedom instead of the corporate world taking advantage of all the people.

[Shneebly]

Where do I find cheap bitcoins? Most people are selling it super overpriced much more than the market value

Market value is what people are willing to pay for it. You end up paying a hefty premium when using PayPal, because sellers (like I used to be), have to compensate for the fact that we deal with scammers. Its more or less a convenience premium, and is most definitely "market value." If you don't want to pay it, use a money transfer, or another method of transferring cash.

fine paypal is bad. then could you please advise while electronic payment is  good ?

there is an expectant community waiting to buy bitcoins

the exchanges are broken

there is money to be made IF the payment hurdle is crossed

NOT all buyers are scammers

I am NOT a scammer

It makes absolutely no difference that you aren't a scammer. The fact of the matter is that this payment type is used by scammers.

Although it may seem old-fashoned, you do a wire transfer. The idea of exchanges isn't bad, its that everybody gave one a monopoly. Use alternates. There are entire threads here dedicated to various options.

[sv4ol84a6v79a46ilby]

HOW TO NOT BE SCAMMED IN THREE STEPS:

1) Trust no one
2) Use your brain
3) Don't transact unless you are 100% sure.

[deepceleron]

SAFE METHODS TO USE PAYPAL:
If you are THE SELLER, and you have ALREADY RECEIVED THE MONEY then it is SAFE TO SEND THE ITEM with PayPal.
...
If using PayPal and you are afraid the payment may be disputed, ALWAYS USE GIFT PAYMENTS. Gift payments CANNOT be disputed.

(...Lots of other BS)

You cannot social engineer your way back into PayPal scamming by posting disinformation, sorry.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/beware-paypal-gift-chargeback-fraud-will-defraud-sellers-784828.html
...and about a kajillion other Internet sources. Also, using gift payments for purchases is considered "fee avoidance" by PayPal, just one more reason to have your account frozen.

Forum users have already learned that it is you vs. the most sophisticated hackers and scam artists trying to defraud you out of Bitcoins. We are not talking Nigerian princes here, these are the ethic-less scum that get bank wires reversed after setting up fabricated bank accounts in rogue nation states, as supplemental income to their drug and human trafficking rings.

Offering to pay with PayPal? - few will take it; a forum search for "PayPal" tells potential recipients all they need to know.
Willing to take PayPal payments? - don't bother posting here about how smoothly it went for you until six months later.

[Coincrazy]

. Use alternates. There are entire threads here dedicated to various options.

Thanks for the answer

Could you please help me find those threads with alternatives / options



Regards

[GotRedCandy]

While I understand paypal, why is it so damn hard to get it via western union?

From where I am to get it into USA it takes Lmost 3 % commission and some bad exchange rates as well


I called local money gram and western union and was surprised by their rates ....both in the order of 3% for just a one way transfer

Unfortunately in Australia you're essentially limited to a verified mt gox account with wiretransfer, or a few other coin swapping services that run around the 6-7% rate and pretty bad exchange rate.

I've been trying to get cash into btc-e rather than mtgox, simply for the fact the buy price tends to be 5-10% lower.

[Ciber]

Paypal has ripped me off $800 before. Bitcoins never has.

[Coincrazy]

While I understand paypal, why is it so damn hard to get it via western union?

From where I am to get it into USA it takes Lmost 3 % commission and some bad exchange rates as well


I called local money gram and western union and was surprised by their rates ....both in the order of 3% for just a one way transfer

Unfortunately in Australia you're essentially limited to a verified mt gox account with wiretransfer, or a few other coin swapping services that run around the 6-7% rate and pretty bad exchange rate.

I've been trying to get cash into btc-e rather than mtgox, simply for the fact the buy price tends to be 5-10% lower.

That arbitrage is lost now

I've been posting a lot about it on my blogs

[GotRedCandy]

@Coincrazy have a link handy?

[Coincrazy]

@Coincrazy have a link handy?

http://mintaway.wordpress.com/2013/04/13/exchange-to-exchange-difference-at-about-the-same-time-april-12-2013-pdt-9-pm/

[UCOGoach]

Makes sense

[BulletCoin]

Could escrow services help this?

Unlikely, transactions through escrow could still be reversed.

What about ordering a physical product from a company? They can't take that back either. Or would the escrow service be responsible of the loss?

[jon@bitcoinads.com]

I bought my first set of Bitcoins from a website with a credit card. That didn't last long but it was really easy. I placed a wire transfer after the recent dip a couple days ago and waited an hour while the teller filled out the form. I think it will take about 5 days and cost $30 for that too...

[Monarch]

F*ck PP and f*ck their fees ... really, we have a Bitcoin here, so no need for PP anymore.

[kurezza]

thank you for the useful information