Offering PayPal for Bitcoin? You're likely to be labeled a scammer - Read why

[petrjanda]

Personally, I think paypal is good for the consumer, bad for the producer. (consumer can reverse transaction and steal money)

[1714059616]

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[dobber]

I was one of those newbies who recently asked for some kind soul to sell me some bitcoins (which I paid via PayPal).

I think the risk cut both ways, and in all transactions (online or offline), you have to take some risk, and take measures to minimize the risk to an acceptable level.

For example, the seller asked for me to wait a couple of days before he will transfer the bitcoins to me (after PayPal payment). I took a risk because I see that the seller has been a member of this forum for awhile, and it will be unlikely he will risk his reputation here for a couple of hundred bucks (though I will soon know whether my judgement is true).

On the other hand, I am grateful to the seller for taking a chance with me, and I tried my best to put his doubts at risk.

Don't real life transactions work the same way?

[milloe]

Thanks for the useful info! I had no idea that Paypal could issue refunds even for cash gifts. Scary

[Speratom]

Speratom - you were wise to limit your exposure.  There are a lot of scammers hereabouts for sure, but there are also some good decent people, too. Helpful ones, even.  I recommend you lurk, a lot. Here's some very good advice: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119896.0

It's a PITA to convert fiat to BTC, but not impossible.  Getting cash into the exchanges is also a bit spendy with the fees, especially wiring fees.  But it's less spendy than losing a lot to scammers. Take heart that you lost relatively little compared to too many others.  That said, I hope you get your money back from the bastard.

I know, we initially talked about 2 BTC, but I wanted to start with a small amount, I bet he didn't have the beginning of a bitcoin, else he could have gone for much more after the first 'test' transaction. As you see it's a kid, scamming me to scam addfocus, I mean.. Anyway I was lucky, I know.

I think maybe going local and meet the people would be a solution...

[Speratom]

I was one of those newbies who recently asked for some kind soul to sell me some bitcoins (which I paid via PayPal).

I think the risk cut both ways, and in all transactions (online or offline), you have to take some risk, and take measures to minimize the risk to an acceptable level.

For example, the seller asked for me to wait a couple of days before he will transfer the bitcoins to me (after PayPal payment). I took a risk because I see that the seller has been a member of this forum for awhile, and it will be unlikely he will risk his reputation here for a couple of hundred bucks (though I will soon know whether my judgement is true).

On the other hand, I am grateful to the seller for taking a chance with me, and I tried my best to put his doubts at risk.

Don't real life transactions work the same way?

I agree but it works differently depending on the nature of the social relations. In a  small village where everybody knows eachother, you will be ostracized, meaning socially punished. In a big city even so-called friends just stop retuning your calls for a fiver.

[marykay]

great way to explain it

[southaussie]

Too many paypal scammers

[Bitcointrrader200]

paypal is a bit rotten anyway.
There are much better alternatives like skrill or neteller or even sending money trough the mail

[radryan]

Thank you for the advise

[pablotextoris]

So far I had no issue buying stuff via Paypal, but have to say I am using it quite rarely...

[lewisryan639]

Have you ever had an experience so you can share
 this Theory Or It Is Just Your Theory ?...

[simplemachine]

Its a shame because some of us have our money in paypal.

[bernard75]

PayPal will always decide against the seller when bitcoins are concerned.
Additionally they have been deleting bitcoin listings and freezing seller accounts recently.
They dont like btc and btc doesnt like them.

[bitcoin_bob]

Bitcoin is for commerce - sell something and accept Bitcoin!

Easier said than done, but some of us are trying our hardest.......

[bitcoin_bob]

Its a shame because some of us have our money in paypal.

transfer it to your bank account as soon as you can then, because I'd rather have my money in a furnace and hand a 4 year old the on and off switch to play with.

[bernard75]

transfer it to your bank account as soon as you can then, because I'd rather have my money in a furnace and hand a 4 year old the on and off switch to play with.

true that, they are really cracking down on anything bitcoin related recently.

[mprep]

transfer it to your bank account as soon as you can then, because I'd rather have my money in a furnace and hand a 4 year old the on and off switch to play with.

true that, they are really cracking down on anything bitcoin related recently.

Not really. They kind of hated bitcoin for quite a while.

[alephi]

Paypal froze my account when I sent £300 to my partner while I was in the UK and she was in the Philippines.  They lied to me on 3 separate occasions about why and what they were doing to remedy the problem.  I spent a total of about 4 1/2 hours on hold while trying to talk to them about it. They still owe me money and I have to wait 180days to get it back even though no credit cards were involved.  Wild horses would not drag me near Paypal ever again.  Or Western Union and Moneygram for that matter. 

Moneygram have also lied by repeatedly saying that my bank was refusing my debit card.  I got them and Visa on the phone simultaneously while they did the card processing and it turned out that Moneygram cannot process Natwest and Santander Visa Debit cards but they won't tell you when you try to register or use your cards on their website.  It wasn't until I had Visa and Moneygram talking about what was going wrong together on the phone that they fessed up to it. Even afterwards they wouldn't come straight out with it and were trying to insist that my bank was declining my card and it was somehow my fault despite accepting that their payment system was presenting the card details wrongly to Visa.  Given that I had recently got off a flight from the Philippines and used my cards in Manila, in Seoul, Korea, and in Tesco, UK and innumerable coffee shops along the way,and I knew I was well in credit, their argument hardly held water from the start, which is why I checked.

Western Union have blocked me for that same transaction with my partner and implied that it was an illegitimate transaction but would not explain why when challenged to produce any evidence supporting it. 

Moral of the story?  Don't trust Paypal or any other US based payments system, especially if you are a non US citizen sending money to another non US citizen and you are both in non US territories.  You will be treated automatically as stupid and criminal on any occasion where customer support is required.  You will get "Blame the customer and deny everything" as the first line of customer support.  You will always be at a disadvantage because you are not a US citizen in the US.

It's not about whether you meet the requirements for them to do business with you, it's about whether they are fit and proper to be handling your money responsibly with your interests in mind rather than only theirs.

These companies do not fall within the parameters I set for trustworthy and reliable money transfer, PERIOD.
There are plenty of alternatives for bitcoins and fiat transfers with or without currency exchange involved.

Personally, for foreign currency transfers I'd suggest OrbitRemit for small and regular fiat and bitcoins for large occasional amounts.

[Amaze]

I closed my PayPal account and do not intend to reopen it because I am just against the whole idea of PayPal. I've heard too many horror stories about them and their fascist "business" practises. And Bitcoin for PayPal is a kind of oxymoron for me. They just don't go together very well.

[cornish_will]

I dont know if paypal will ever openly allow users yo exchange bitcoins through them but i read they was concidering allowing users to pay for goods with bitcoins