klee
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
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June 27, 2013, 09:42:05 AM |
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Everybody should be watching this thread. It's the next properly developed and thought of altcoin to be created. It's not a clonecoin by any means and actually offers legitimate new features which have been developed for and by the community. Don't expect it any time soon though, devs are taking their time and it's important they do so.
I watch this and PeerCash (by Bitfreak)... |
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xwebnetwork
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June 27, 2013, 12:22:17 PM |
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Don't you worry. Things are progressing, albeit slowly. But progress is forward movement nonetheless.
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Luckybit
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June 27, 2013, 01:42:28 PM |
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Don't know about others but at least I never laughed at your ideas. Though the problem is not the idea is ahead of its time, problem is nobody is willing to step up to take the risk and make it happen.
This is the first tough lesson I learned in entrepreneurial projects. Idea is only the first small step, execution is 99%. If I didn't learn this lesson well, ppcoin wouldn't happen either.
My first advice to netcoin is, limit the scope to the point that you can execute within one year.
Sunny I think the problem is we don't have enough competent programmers who aren't already working on other projects. I'm an idea guy but I'm only an average programmer, on top of that I'm still a bit busy with other things to invest enough time into some of my ideas. If I get the chance to, I intend to launch the AskPeers site, and the Tube site idea as well but in my case if I have to do it then we might not see it for 6 months which is why I'd rather someone else with less on their plate take up the cause. I have registered the domain name, outlined the idea, I could even make a step by step guide of what needs to be done, but I cannot do it all. Maybe if I make enough money to pay my bills I'll be able to focus exclusively on this but I don't know how people manage to create enough time unless they do this full time. Tacotime is having the same problem himself with this project so I think he knows what it's like to want to do something but to be so busy with other more immediate concerns to not be able to do it and he's the kind of person who likes to do stuff right. You made an excellent point and gave advice that I'll listen to. If the project cannot be launched within a year then it might be better to do something else and the amount of time it takes to launch does matter to maintain this momentum. I actually think the window of opportunity is in the 6 month range for Netcoin, so perhaps if we can figure out how to make a list of people in the community who are willing to help out and give them points for doing it that would be a start. Perhaps a mailing list for programmers, a mailing list for web developers, a mailing list for marketers, and discuss the ideas on these lists and then when an action has to be taken then put it on the main wiki as a to-do list. I'm not familiar with Git just yet unfortunately. |
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solracx
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June 27, 2013, 02:07:28 PM |
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Don't know about others but at least I never laughed at your ideas. Though the problem is not the idea is ahead of its time, problem is nobody is willing to step up to take the risk and make it happen.
This is the first tough lesson I learned in entrepreneurial projects. Idea is only the first small step, execution is 99%. If I didn't learn this lesson well, ppcoin wouldn't happen either.
My first advice to netcoin is, limit the scope to the point that you can execute within one year.
Sunny I think the problem is we don't have enough competent programmers who aren't already working on other projects. I'm an idea guy but I'm only an average programmer, on top of that I'm still a bit busy with other things to invest enough time into some of my ideas. If I get the chance to, I intend to launch the AskPeers site, and the Tube site idea as well but in my case if I have to do it then we might not see it for 6 months which is why I'd rather someone else with less on their plate take up the cause. I have registered the domain name, outlined the idea, I could even make a step by step guide of what needs to be done, but I cannot do it all. Maybe if I make enough money to pay my bills I'll be able to focus exclusively on this but I don't know how people manage to create enough time unless they do this full time. Tacotime is having the same problem himself with this project so I think he knows what it's like to want to do something but to be so busy with other more immediate concerns to not be able to do it and he's the kind of person who likes to do stuff right. You made an excellent point and gave advice that I'll listen to. If the project cannot be launched within a year then it might be better to do something else and the amount of time it takes to launch does matter to maintain this momentum. I actually think the window of opportunity is in the 6 month range for Netcoin, so perhaps if we can figure out how to make a list of people in the community who are willing to help out and give them points for doing it that would be a start. Perhaps a mailing list for programmers, a mailing list for web developers, a mailing list for marketers, and discuss the ideas on these lists and then when an action has to be taken then put it on the main wiki as a to-do list. I'm not familiar with Git just yet unfortunately. So what is the development status of this coin? Is there a repository (GitHub) yet? If not, I can get the ball rolling by contributing the next version of ZenithCoin as a starting code base to build upon. |
ZenithCoin - Sustainable Scrypt Based Crypto Currency
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Luckybit
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June 27, 2013, 03:50:34 PM |
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Tacotime you might want to take a look at this Matt Corallo and I have added support for micropayment channels to bitcoinj. Micropayment channels allow you to send, after an initial setup process, very tiny payments to a chosen third party in a trust-free manner without broadcasting all the payments onto the block chain. This lets you avoid the fees and anti-flooding protections that would otherwise cause problems. The cost is a single ECDSA signature on the client side, and a single verify on the server side.
Now for some personal commentary. I'm excited by this work for a couple of reasons.
One is that I strongly believe that Bitcoin's short to medium term future lies in finding an advanced "killer app" rather than trying to compete head on with VISA or MasterCard. Whilst Bitcoin has many advantages over credit card payments, for most people the barriers to entry are high enough to keep them on their existing payment solutions. If we create a new market or application that is highly compelling and requires Bitcoin, then we give people a stronger incentive to acquire some. And once they've made the decision to get some coins for that killer app, why not get a little bit more than needed and also use it to buy other things later? To make a killer app we need things Bitcoin can do that other systems can't. Micropayments is an obvious example.
The second reason this work is important is that our community hasn't been making good use of the contracts features Satoshi left for us. Despite that many designs were documented years ago (by me on the Contracts page), there haven't really been any apps that use them. "Where are the contract apps?" is a question that came up a lot when I was in California for the conference. The cause seems to be that it's hard to understand how to turn the high level descriptions on the wiki into working code. The micropayment channels code in bitcoinj now gives us a worked example from beginning to end - you can read the theory, read the protocol description and then see it how to translate it into a real, working system that manages all the fiddly details.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244656.0https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/detail?r=4908c241f7161bc5facfb85b466feba2929f2567I think they are onto something. They figured out how to get micropayments working.
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solracx
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June 27, 2013, 07:29:03 PM |
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Tacotime you might want to take a look at this Matt Corallo and I have added support for micropayment channels to bitcoinj. Micropayment channels allow you to send, after an initial setup process, very tiny payments to a chosen third party in a trust-free manner without broadcasting all the payments onto the block chain. This lets you avoid the fees and anti-flooding protections that would otherwise cause problems. The cost is a single ECDSA signature on the client side, and a single verify on the server side.
Now for some personal commentary. I'm excited by this work for a couple of reasons.
One is that I strongly believe that Bitcoin's short to medium term future lies in finding an advanced "killer app" rather than trying to compete head on with VISA or MasterCard. Whilst Bitcoin has many advantages over credit card payments, for most people the barriers to entry are high enough to keep them on their existing payment solutions. If we create a new market or application that is highly compelling and requires Bitcoin, then we give people a stronger incentive to acquire some. And once they've made the decision to get some coins for that killer app, why not get a little bit more than needed and also use it to buy other things later? To make a killer app we need things Bitcoin can do that other systems can't. Micropayments is an obvious example.
The second reason this work is important is that our community hasn't been making good use of the contracts features Satoshi left for us. Despite that many designs were documented years ago (by me on the Contracts page), there haven't really been any apps that use them. "Where are the contract apps?" is a question that came up a lot when I was in California for the conference. The cause seems to be that it's hard to understand how to turn the high level descriptions on the wiki into working code. The micropayment channels code in bitcoinj now gives us a worked example from beginning to end - you can read the theory, read the protocol description and then see it how to translate it into a real, working system that manages all the fiddly details.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244656.0https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/detail?r=4908c241f7161bc5facfb85b466feba2929f2567I think they are onto something. They figured out how to get micropayments working. Interesting. |
ZenithCoin - Sustainable Scrypt Based Crypto Currency
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_ingsoc
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June 27, 2013, 10:27:41 PM |
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any thoughts on how to catch up to bitcoin's 4 year head start and the amount of adoption they already have?
I always thought this was an interesting perspective when it comes to Bitcoin versus others. I don't look at it as competition. Netcoin is the beginning of what some guy thought would be an improvement on what Bitcoin developed into. So he decided to share those ideas just like Bitcoin shared its ideas. It's all about building on top of what's good. At the end of the day, I will call Netcoin good on a personal level if it's freedom-enabling for people, as opposed to systems that are about controlling people (like most scamcoins - just my opinion, no flaming intended). That's what I want to work toward and play a part in! |
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digicoin
Legendary
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Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
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June 29, 2013, 07:21:35 AM |
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I think that tacotime should announce or reveal his plan/roadmap to implement this currency. This discussion takes too long without any progress recently.
@solracx Is ZenithCoin a copy-and-paste coin? I see nothing new in it. So it looks like yet-another-crapcoin to me
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Tropical Rain
Newbie
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Activity: 14
Merit: 0
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June 29, 2013, 07:24:04 AM |
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I think that tacotime should announce or reveal his plan/roadmap to implement this currency. This discussion takes too long without any progress recently.
@solracx Is ZenithCoin a copy-and-paste coin? I see nothing new in it. So it looks like yet-another-crapcoin to me
+1 I completely understand them trying to get it right, different, innovative, taking time to get outside ideas to implement... But it's been almost 3 months already... It's time to get this going, and for a release, updates on a release at least. |
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sevenseals
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June 30, 2013, 01:48:49 AM |
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has this coin already launched?
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_ingsoc
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June 30, 2013, 07:22:39 AM |
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has this coin already launched?
Nope, not yet. TacoTime is conceptualising the new PoS system. It'll be in the new whitepaper, and likely the last revision before development. |
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Luckybit
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July 02, 2013, 01:48:59 AM |
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any thoughts on how to catch up to bitcoin's 4 year head start and the amount of adoption they already have?
I always thought this was an interesting perspective when it comes to Bitcoin versus others. I don't look at it as competition. Netcoin is the beginning of what some guy thought would be an improvement on what Bitcoin developed into. So he decided to share those ideas just like Bitcoin shared its ideas. It's all about building on top of what's good. At the end of the day, I will call Netcoin good on a personal level if it's freedom-enabling for people, as opposed to systems that are about controlling people (like most scamcoins - just my opinion, no flaming intended). That's what I want to work toward and play a part in! This is an interesting model: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/07/01/winklevoss-twins-file-to-launch-bitcoin-exchange-traded-product/I could see this idea working for Litecoin or Netcoin. Simply set up a product similar to this and then sell passthrough shares in the Netcoin on the official stock market to marketed to the mainstream investor. I would say keep an eye on this to see if it works because this could be what brings Bitcoin to the investor mainstream. The main problem people have with Bitcoin is they don't know how to get them, and when they get them they don't know how to keep them safe, this solves both those problems by treating Bitcoin as an ordinary share like any other on the stock market. Now a billionaire can buy shares in Bitcoin and add it to their portfolio. |
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A L I E N
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
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July 02, 2013, 03:29:41 AM |
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any thoughts on how to catch up to bitcoin's 4 year head start and the amount of adoption they already have?
I always thought this was an interesting perspective when it comes to Bitcoin versus others. I don't look at it as competition. Netcoin is the beginning of what some guy thought would be an improvement on what Bitcoin developed into. So he decided to share those ideas just like Bitcoin shared its ideas. It's all about building on top of what's good. At the end of the day, I will call Netcoin good on a personal level if it's freedom-enabling for people, as opposed to systems that are about controlling people (like most scamcoins - just my opinion, no flaming intended). That's what I want to work toward and play a part in! This is an interesting model: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/07/01/winklevoss-twins-file-to-launch-bitcoin-exchange-traded-product/I could see this idea working for Litecoin or Netcoin. Simply set up a product similar to this and then sell passthrough shares in the Netcoin on the official stock market to marketed to the mainstream investor. I would say keep an eye on this to see if it works because this could be what brings Bitcoin to the investor mainstream. The main problem people have with Bitcoin is they don't know how to get them, and when they get them they don't know how to keep them safe, this solves both those problems by treating Bitcoin as an ordinary share like any other on the stock market. Now a billionaire can buy shares in Bitcoin and add it to their portfolio. Not to get too off track, but that would be huge for cryptos.. |
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rbdrbd
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July 02, 2013, 04:15:49 AM |
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I think that tacotime should announce or reveal his plan/roadmap to implement this currency. This discussion takes too long without any progress recently.
@solracx Is ZenithCoin a copy-and-paste coin? I see nothing new in it. So it looks like yet-another-crapcoin to me
+1 I completely understand them trying to get it right, different, innovative, taking time to get outside ideas to implement... But it's been almost 3 months already... It's time to get this going, and for a release, updates on a release at least. +1 to that. I am strongly considering chipping in a large amount to the future kickstarter fund, but that has to raise enough $$ for tacotime to work on this thing full-time (and get some talent to help organize the launch), or else nothing will get done.  |
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philipkdick
Member
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Activity: 84
Merit: 10
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July 02, 2013, 04:49:34 AM |
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I think that tacotime should announce or reveal his plan/roadmap to implement this currency. This discussion takes too long without any progress recently.
@solracx Is ZenithCoin a copy-and-paste coin? I see nothing new in it. So it looks like yet-another-crapcoin to me
Totally agree , Taco you need to simplify or have some one do this and put that in retarded speak . And start a new topic If you want to have a fresh new start on a new forum that everyone from cryptsy to LTC are supporting I'll ask the forum host cyber if you want an advert at digitalcurrencytalk.comAdvert sits on front page and links to topic inside . This forum will marketed to new crypto users. |
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wizzardTim
Legendary
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Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Reality is stranger than fiction
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July 02, 2013, 11:51:13 AM |
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Do we have any update from Taco or regarding the new white paper?
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Behold the Tangle Mysteries! Dare to know It's truth.
- Excerpt from the IOTA Sacred Texts Vol. I
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cdog
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July 02, 2013, 12:16:09 PM |
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Tacotime for President! Netcoins as the currency. Peace on earth. Can someone give me the cliffnotes on how they decided to fund development? Im all for supporting this in any way possible.  |
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_ingsoc
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July 02, 2013, 01:39:03 PM |
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Do we have any update from Taco or regarding the new white paper?
He's going to go into detail (greater detail than the paper) on the Wiki. In all likelihood we'll be able to do that concurrently with crowdfunding the project, and getting paid developers assembled. Unfortunately I don't have a recent update on his thinking, but I'm sure he'll chime in as soon as he gets a chance! Yeah, that's right. Sorry! We'll have to update all those links. Forum is now at netcoin.io/forum. It'll open soon when we move into the next phase. Not trying to be a tease, but we don't have much to talk about until we have a development update, so it makes sense to open up the new forum when that happens. Tacotime for President! Netcoins as the currency. Peace on earth. Can someone give me the cliffnotes on how they decided to fund development? Im all for supporting this in any way possible. You should start a White House petition so they can talk to TacoTime's prime minister, who can then talk to his school and see if they would let him take off some time to work on this full-time.  Development is going to take the form of a crowdfunding run where the funds raised will go to development of various components of the proposal. The exact terms aren't finalised yet, but essentially the stake funders occupy in the network is required for its security. Ultimately the goal is to contribute to the public domain a body of work, where Netcoin is an implementation of that, which can't function without your stake in it (if that makes sense). |
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