Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[xxxxxzzzzz]

...
Yeah I dunno I've never really understood that kind of greed. It's like you can only drive 1 car at a time right so I don't want a red, orange, yellow, and black lambo (though it would be nice to have 1). Actually come to think of it life is pretty fine for me I do own my house and my bmw and usually sit on my ass all day trading bitcoin in my pajamas and listening to music or just do whatever I feel like with my time. Hmmm maybe I'm rich enough already to be happy and ought to just give up this bitcoin thing ? naaaahhhhh    

Lambos are to cars what a porn stars are to sex -- ridiculous, showy, would be embarrassed to be seen in one.
Car freaks I know drive shitboxen/really boring "grown up" cars for daily drivers -- people who race modded P-51s are probably no different -- probably drive something lame too. I mean, if you fly @ 500mph a few feet off the ground, an occasional 180mph blip on the highway won't be much of a rush.
It's not about conspicuous consumption.

The people with money I know aren't necessarily greedy -- they're often stingy, to the point where I wind up adding to the tip when we go out for lunch (because they figured it out *to the penny*). They're into money the same [personal, irrational] way I like '50s to '70s mechanical things that go fast. They don't need the money they make, I don't need to fuck with weird cars so they would handle a hair better & go a few mph faster. Money's not a means to get something else for them, it's an end in itself -- no different than obsessing about weird cars/bikes/toob gear/BTC/old guitars.
Just something they like.

Oh yeah I don't think I'd ever own a lambo I was just using that as an example of an expensive unnecessary thing a greedy person might want. I'd rather have an old 50s chevy hotrod myself if I was going to get something impractical for a toy. Seems like one of those planes would cost an awful lot for basically a toy for an adrenaline rush and to some extent would be a status symbol necessitating some level of greed, maybe that's not the right word, lust for interest in or obsession with maybe would have been more correct? Honestly I didn't look real closely at it I assumed it was a private jet. I still think it's weird to see money as an end in itself. It's supposed to buy you things for utility use and fun. My skis cost like 300. Kayak like 500. All my hiking gear maybe a grand total. Chessboard was like 50 bucks. I guess I have cheap hobbies / interests. Didn't realize I was talking to lambie been kindof avoiding the forum you must be doing well it's been pleasant interacting with you never thought I'd see the day. Did I have a stroke what the F is going on here? heheh

[ImI]

lol! now friedenbach threatens with a change of PoW.

seems like some part of core is really decisive about being left behind by the community.

It's like a fucking kindergarten.

Although I am no Friedenbach fanboi, I think we agree on this:

I feel this meeting was antithetical to Bitcoin and no good outcomes were likely

Anyone who still labours under the misapprehension that the roundtable  was a good thing for bitcoin needs to re-examine their understanding of Bitcoin,

you see, in bitcoin we have only one real built in way to reach consensus, its PoW. apart from that we simply have no way of knowing what the community/economy/... wants. so basically you will always have to have meetups and there will always be somebody who wasnt there. we cant have an election like in other systems. and we cant have a survey that would lead to comprehensive results. we cant have one stake = one vote either.

[yefi]

It's fucking Divine Right of Kings. Do you think parliament could have forced King John to sign the Magna Carta without an army at their backs?

King John couldn't believe in the divine right of kings because the concept didn't exist then in Western thought. I wouldn't use the term parliament to refer to the rebel barons either - they weren't one.

I'll grade you a 'c' - nice effort  

[billyjoeallen]

Core developers honestly and sincerely want to write the best code. What the Core developers don't understand is that the best code doesn't win. The code that gives people the best value wins. It's why Microsoft beat Apple in the 1980s.  MSDOS was shit code, but it was free.  We used it.

Core is effectively wanting to charge for their code with miner fees. They aren't really miner fees, they're Core fees. Miners have made it clear they don't want them, they would rather have blockrewards of a rapidly appreciating currency.

The market always has the last word. The market wants value.  We don't want a luxury network of highest level security. A luxury is by definition something you don't need. With mining concentrated in China, highest level security isn't possible anyway.   

[coins101]

Core developers honestly and sincerely want to write the best code. What the Core developers don't understand is that the best code doesn't win. The code that gives people the best value wins. It's why Microsoft beat Apple in the 1980s.  MSDOS was shit code, but it was free.  We used it.

Core is effectively wanting to charge for their code with miner fees. They aren't really miner fees, they're Core fees. Miners have made it clear they don't want them, they would rather have blockrewards of a rapidly appreciating currency.

The market always has the last word. The market wants value.  We don't want a luxury network of highest level security. A luxury is by definition something you don't need. With mining concentrated in China, highest level security isn't possible anyway.   

SidechainOverlay trickery doesn't sound so compelling without fees. 

Now we get closer to understanding the manipulating hand behind the thrown.

[becoin]

All big blocktard trolls are out there whining hysterically.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

lol! now friedenbach threatens with a change of PoW.

seems like some part of core is really decisive about being left behind by the community.

It's like a fucking kindergarten.

Although I am no Friedenbach fanboi, I think we agree on this:

I feel this meeting was antithetical to Bitcoin and no good outcomes were likely

Anyone who still labours under the misapprehension that the roundtable  was a good thing for bitcoin needs to re-examine their understanding of Bitcoin,

you see, in bitcoin we have only one real built in way to reach consensus, its PoW. apart from that we simply have no way of knowing what the community/economy/... wants. so basically you will always have to have meetups and there will always be somebody who wasnt there. we cant have an election like in other systems. and we cant have a survey that would lead to comprehensive results. we cant have one stake = one vote either.

But its when that chance of PoW is denied that we start t get into problems. That is the true sedition within Bitcoin. It is supposed to be resistant to this, and if left to its own devices it will prove to be so (or not, in which case it will die).

The denial of due process  by organising closed door meetings, where only one side of the argument is presented ( with infantile Powerpoint presentations), is more harmful than any contentious fork.  

[Mota]

Every time someone here writes "the market wants" or "the community wants" a child dies of the overall stupidity of those sentences.

Nobody knows what the market or the community wants, the only thing we know is what the mega miners, exchanges and bought interest groups want. The only thing you know for certain is your own opinion. And the sad thing is that most people don't get that every time someone makes a concession to "political interest" the freedom of the use of bitcoin gets a little less.

You could argue that the economic majority (most amount of bitcoins for a side) should be the market - they would vote for core.
But what is the community? The community is every individual who uses Bitcoin and everyone who runs a node. The people who run nodes are certainly not all for small blocks/core, but the majority of them are. Users generally want smaller fees, but let's be honest, a few cents per transaction are not the world - and it would certainly regulate spam transactions...

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[billyjoeallen]

lol! now friedenbach threatens with a change of PoW.

seems like some part of core is really decisive about being left behind by the community.

It's like a fucking kindergarten.

Although I am no Friedenbach fanboi, I think we agree on this:

I feel this meeting was antithetical to Bitcoin and no good outcomes were likely

Anyone who still labours under the misapprehension that the roundtable  was a good thing for bitcoin needs to re-examine their understanding of Bitcoin,

you see, in bitcoin we have only one real built in way to reach consensus, its PoW. apart from that we simply have no way of knowing what the community/economy/... wants. so basically you will always have to have meetups and there will always be somebody who wasnt there. we cant have an election like in other systems. and we cant have a survey that would lead to comprehensive results. we cant have one stake = one vote either.

But its when that chance of PoW is denied that we start t get into problems. That is the true sedition within Bitcoin. It is supposed to be resistant to this, and if left to its own devices it will prove to be so (or not, in which case it will die).

The denial of due process  by organising closed door meetings, where only one side of the argument is presented ( with infantile Powerpoint presentations), is more harmful than any contentious fork.  

I think I hear what you are saying. Hashpower secures the network, so a Coup by miners turns Bitcoin into a military dictatorship.  That's true, but it's actually the best option we have right now.  Without that hashpower, Bitcoin will lose it's first mover advantage. 

Forking to a different POW algorithm will leave Bitcoin massively open to attacks until we can regain a fraction of that hashpower security.  We're dead in the water. Damned if we do. Damned if we don't. 

[bargainbin]

Core developers honestly and sincerely want to write the best code. What the Core developers don't understand is that the best code doesn't win. The code that gives people the best value wins. It's why Microsoft beat Apple in the 1980s.  MSDOS was shit code, but it was free.  We used it. ...

DOS was never free, intellectual property thief!
Filing internet police report as we speak

...
Coins are moving! what are the chances that those coins are moving to exchanges where they will be dumped on the heads of overoptimistic bulls? 

[billyjoeallen]

Explanation

Coins are moving! what are the chances that those coins are moving to exchanges where they will be dumped on the heads of overoptimistic bulls?  

[Lavos]

Explanation

Coins are moving! what are the chances that those coins are moving to exchanges where they will be dumped on the heads of overoptimistic bulls?  

Coins always are moving, we have a couple of transactions/second, what is special with this moves?

[Fatman3001]

Explanation

Coins are moving! what are the chances that those coins are moving to exchanges where they will be dumped on the heads of overoptimistic bulls?  

ZERO

[ImI]

lol! now friedenbach threatens with a change of PoW.

seems like some part of core is really decisive about being left behind by the community.

It's like a fucking kindergarten.

Although I am no Friedenbach fanboi, I think we agree on this:

I feel this meeting was antithetical to Bitcoin and no good outcomes were likely

Anyone who still labours under the misapprehension that the roundtable  was a good thing for bitcoin needs to re-examine their understanding of Bitcoin,

you see, in bitcoin we have only one real built in way to reach consensus, its PoW. apart from that we simply have no way of knowing what the community/economy/... wants. so basically you will always have to have meetups and there will always be somebody who wasnt there. we cant have an election like in other systems. and we cant have a survey that would lead to comprehensive results. we cant have one stake = one vote either.

But its when that chance of PoW is denied that we start t get into problems.

you can't deny it. miners are always able to mine the blocks they want and to use the version they want. so far the miners have been very cautious in using their voting power, but if that drag goes along they will do what they see best for BTC.
closed-door-meetings are only a way of avoiding the miners to use their powers for the sake of the community-spirit, as we lack a way of election its the only way of dealing with these things at the moment.

[coins101]

All big blocktard trolls are out there whining hysterically.

Some of us just want the best outcome, small blocks or larger blocks.  Crypto is the future. There is room for everything.

People with minipulative hidden agendas is all I take issue with. Anyone who wants to make a change should just write a BIP and or pull request.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland. Seems I missed a little drama last night.

I leave to go out for Saturday night with the price hovering around  $440, make it home this afternoon and it's $436. That's not surprising.

What is surprising is that it went all the way up to $451 and then all the way down to $428 before ending right back where it was yesterday.

Meanwhile some people around here are acting as if the price had crashed. NLC is posting Tinkerball pix and Abercrombie is asking if crypto is dead.

Silly little bears. Sigh.

[billyjoeallen]

Explanation

Coins are moving! what are the chances that those coins are moving to exchanges where they will be dumped on the heads of overoptimistic bulls?  

Coins always are moving, we have a couple of transactions/second, what is special with this moves?

What is special is that the network is approaching capacity in the middle of a scaling controversy. Which side do you think that helps? It's a slow growth deal, but if it gets accepted, there will be fast growth and the network will clog.  What do you think a jammed up network will do to confidence and price?

It's a no win situation and the smart money is sitting on the sidelines watching it play out.  That little correction this morning wasn't the Big Dump. The Big dump will happen over CNY3000 when everyone thinks the coast is clear.

[gizmoh]

lol! now friedenbach threatens with a change of PoW.

seems like some part of core is really decisive about being left behind by the community.

Funny how some people think they can speak for a whole. I can only speak for myself - and if the consequence of mining becoming centralized is, that some miners are able to influence decisions which should ultimately belong to the community, then maybe a change of the PoW algorithm is not that bad. It may even lead to a more solid foundation for a globally connected financial institution.  

The problem is wladimir won't merge any consensus code changes to core without consensus from all developers. So the HF won't get merged and won't happen. Which is fine I guess as other implementations will still be around, it's just another 6 months of stalling.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46t5vd/mark_friedenbach_opposes_the_hfconsensus_that_was/d07xg9c

[spud21]

Good morning Bitcoinland. Seems I missed a little drama last night.

I leave to go out for Saturday night with the price hovering around  $440, make it home this afternoon and it's $436. That's not surprising.

What is surprising is that it went all the way up to $451 and then all the way down to $428 before ending right back where it was yesterday.

Meanwhile some people around here are acting as if the price had crashed. NLC is posting Tinkerball pix and Abercrombie is asking if crypto is dead.

Silly little bears. Sigh.

It's those terrifying lines going straight down on the charts that cause all the panic. I found it less stressful ignoring the charts and checking the price in digits once in a while. Watching a vertical line on a chart rapidly going lower and lower is too nerve wracking for me, and it's no wonder it starts people panicking.

Walk away and the price usually goes back up quite quickly.