Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[zimmah]

Price movements seem to indicate that by june 10th we would probably either break the 4000 CNY barrier (about $600) or we would drop back a bit.

[1714646078]

1714646078

[1714646078]

1714646078

[rjclarke2000]

A small correction and suddenly  YYNBBbchnvv and his mates with names like 44TIZXbhmjh come out to play telling us it's a scamcoin piece of shit again.

Crazy.

[Syke]

I'm so happy I didn't invest in scamcoin ETH, because if it wasn't a scam coin, I'd be pretty sad right about now.
http://s32.postimg.org/lh6113y7p/Capture.gif
Which I'm totally not.

Take your altcoin spam to the altcoin forum.

ETH price 1 month ago: .0248 BTC
ETH price today: .0251 BTC

Such growth!

[jbreher]

Blockstream's entire future is dependent on Segwit. Jihan holds the power to deny them what they need, until they give him what he wants.

Well, Core _could_ capitulate on the 'anything less than 95% is evil' doctrine. That'd be fun.

[barbs]

are the waters safe again?

[XCASH]

A small correction and suddenly  YYNBBbchnvv and his mates with names like 44TIZXbhmjh come out to play telling us it's a scamcoin piece of shit again.

Crazy.

If you look at a chart and zoom out to the 30 day view you can see the price has been range bound. It keeps chipping away at the walls below 4000 CNY and $600. After its broken through those walls there's not much resistance. Eventually its going through them despite the small corrections like todays.

[dumbfbrankings]

Blockstream's entire future is dependent on Segwit. Jihan holds the power to deny them what they need, until they give him what he wants.

Well, Core _could_ capitulate on the 'anything less than 95% is evil' doctrine. That'd be fun.

It sure would. I have a feeling they may have to lower it far enough to negate F2pool as well. Say.... 50.001%?

And only hours to the (>$15) drop. Not trading advice, have been wrong before.
But not often

 



$100 flash crash on GDAX

[DaRude]

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting.  While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production.  Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good.  For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting.  The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin.  If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious   following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2:
Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

[zimmah]

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting.  While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production.  Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good.  For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting.  The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin.  If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious   following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2:
Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

 A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell, and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so). Or freshly mined coins, that well sell at least at the price of production, unless the miner is forced to sell for lower to cover his expenses, but if a miner continually sells at a loss, mining will be unprofitable for him, so eventually he'll be forced to quit.

Therefore, over time, the price will reach at least the price of production, because those who sell for less than that will run out of coins to sell.

I don't know how I can explain it any simpler.

[JimboToronto]

A very late good morning Bitcoinland. Way too much booze way too late on an empty stomach last night.

I see the battle for $580 still rages on.



How much longer do we go sideways in the $565-$695 range before a breakout? It's been half a week now. Is this just the beginning of a longer sideways trend or do we start to move up again soon?

It's still not a deep enough dip for me to buy.

[savetherainforest]

Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

the next spike will be somewhere between $900-1400$ .. then it will go back down to $700-800$ and then go back up between $1500-2500$ and it will stay on that interval for a few months.

[zimmah]

A very late good morning Bitcoinland. Way too much booze way too late on an empty stomach last night.

I see the battle for $580 still rages on.



How much longer do we go sideways in the $565-$695 range before a breakout? It's been half a week now. Is this just the beginning of a longer sideways trend or do we start to move up again soon?

It's still not a deep enough dip for me to buy.

I don't think it will take long



China is getting ready for a breakout (looks like UP to me, but might as well be down. Either way, we'll know in max 2 days.

[StraightAArdvark]

Ughh ingenious   following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2:
Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell,

No, they won't run out of coins to sell. If the people who own the (what, 16 million?) coins mined up to date, *those coins don't disappear*. They could be sold again and again, at a lower or higher price. Because that's how money works.

and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so).

Remember BBQ coin? Who forced the shrewd BBQers to sell their precious at a loss? How is it possible that BBQ-flavored monopoly money asset with artificially limited supply is now worthless? According to you, it can only go one way -- to the moon!

[zimmah]

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting.  While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production.  Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good.  For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting.  The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin.  If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious   following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2:
Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

 A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell,

No, they won't run out of coins to sell. If the people who own the (what, 16 million?) coins mined up to date, *those coins don't disappear*. They could be sold again and again, at a lower or higher price. Because that's how money works.

and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so).

Remember BBQ coin? Who forced the shrewd BBQers to sell their precious at a loss? How is it possible that BBQ-flavored monopoly money asset with artificially limited supply is now worthless? According to you, it can only go one way -- to the moon!

Why would you buy a coin just to sell it at a lower price?

If enough people do that, sure the price will drop, but ti doesn't make any sense to do that, so seriously, why would that happen on a large scale?

It won't happen on a large scale, because it's unprofitable.

I don't know what happened to BBQ coin and i don't care, because bitcoin isn't the same as altcoins. Bitcoin has utility, altcoins are often just a get-rich-quick scam.

[StraightAArdvark]

Why would you buy a coin just to sell it at a lower price?

Why did BBQ coiners buy BBQ coins, just to sell them for less? WTF is wrong with them? Didn't they realize that BBQ supply is limited, and, at each block reward halvening, their precious is *MATHEMATICALLY GUARANTEED* to double in price? FFS, how stupid those BBQers were! If they just held, they'd be rich as shit!!11!

I don't know what happened to BBQ coin and i don't care, because bitcoin isn't the same

This sort of willful ignorance, this willingness to cling to religious faith in their precious, that it's the Only True One, a special, unique snowflake, completely unlike scores of schemes structurally *just like it*, is what keeps people stupid and poor

[DaRude]

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting.  While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production.  Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good.  For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting.  The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin.  If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious   following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2:
Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

 A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell, and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so). Or freshly mined coins, that well sell at least at the price of production, unless the miner is forced to sell for lower to cover his expenses, but if a miner continually sells at a loss, mining will be unprofitable for him, so eventually he'll be forced to quit.

Therefore, over time, the price will reach at least the price of production, because those who sell for less than that will run out of coins to sell.

I don't know how I can explain it any simpler.

No no and again no, seller doesn't set the price buyer does. Market couldn't care less what seller likes or doesn't like. Here's the price someone is willing to buy the BTC you produced if that's not profitable for you, you go out of business, you go out of business there's less hash power dificulty adjust all other miners are that tiny bit more profitable. Rinse and repeat.

On a separate note, everyone ignoring that BTC5k sell wall @ $576

[zimmah]

Why would you buy a coin just to sell it at a lower price?

Why did BBQ coiners buy BBQ coins, just to sell them for less? WTF is wrong with them? Didn't they realize that BBQ supply is limited, and, at each block reward halvening, their precious is *MATHEMATICALLY GUARANTEED* to double in price? FFS, how stupid those BBQers were! If they just held, they'd be rich as shit!!11!

I don't know what happened to BBQ coin and i don't care, because bitcoin isn't the same

This sort of willful ignorance, this willingness to cling to religious faith in their precious, that it's the Only True One, a special, unique snowflake, completely unlike scores of schemes structurally *just like it*, is what keeps people stupid and poor

BBQ doesn't have value, so it's better to sell them at any price if they are going to collapse, instead of holding them and losing everything.

Limited supply only means something if someone actually wants those things.

Bitcoin has proven to be popular and useful, and the popularity only seems to grow.

Bitcoin isn't neccesarily diffeent from BBQ, but the thing that matters is the network effect.

MySpace wasn't any different from facebook, but myspace died, and facebook thrived. Why? because of network.

[zimmah]

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting.  While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production.  Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good.  For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting.  The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin.  If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious   following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2:
Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

 A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell, and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so). Or freshly mined coins, that well sell at least at the price of production, unless the miner is forced to sell for lower to cover his expenses, but if a miner continually sells at a loss, mining will be unprofitable for him, so eventually he'll be forced to quit.

Therefore, over time, the price will reach at least the price of production, because those who sell for less than that will run out of coins to sell.

I don't know how I can explain it any simpler.

No no and again no, seller doesn't set the price buyer does. Market couldn't care less what seller likes or doesn't like. Here's the price someone is willing to buy the BTC you produced if that's not profitable for you, you go out of business, you go out of business there's less hash power dificulty adjust all other miners are that tiny bit more profitable. Rinse and repeat.

On a separate note, everyone ignoring that BTC5k sell wall @ $576

Ok, I'd like to buy all your bitcoins for $1 each.

Also, if you happen to have any gold, i offer $0.01 per gram of gold.

I'd also like to buy both your house and your car for a combined price of $3

You see? Nobody would accept such offers because they're complete garbage offers, way below the price the seller wants for them, So the seller chooses not to sell.

The price has to be agreed between buyer and seller, if one of them does not agree, the trade is off.

If you don't even understand this, don't bother replying, because i'd be better of talking to a banana peel.

[JimboToronto]

everyone ignoring that BTC5k sell wall @ $576

Not I.

I was waiting until we got close before asking if it would be eaten or pulled. Now that you brought it up I'll hazard to guess that it will be pulled.

[spooderman]

sorry for off topic post:

4k sell wall just pulled on finex