Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Paashaas]

Jihad Jihan Wu is going down this week!

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[Killerpotleaf]

i think the past few days of down down down was market pricing in the BU forking BS.
the market has already priced in all kinds of Block size debate related shit.
example when Mike  Rage Quit, sooo.... price cant be affected TOO much by this forking FUD.
i think price is low, even if there is a sorta high probability of a forking.
it seems as tho, once forked, the combined value of both chains will be gr8ter then pre-split.
and once "the war" is over, this is very bullish since we will have a clear scaling plan everyone is behind.
how long is it going to take for BU to actually attempt to fork? who knows... might be 1 week away and it could be 6months
but if it hasn't happened within a year its probably never gonna happen.

[arklan]

i used to run a full node... then i moved, and now have limited (40 GB a month...) data. sigh.

its +10$/month for unlimited for me

my cellphone, through t-mobile, has unlimited, including hotspot. but it really means "28 GB, then we throttle you when it's busy" which is basically unusable, even for checking email at the busiest times.

our actual internet (again, a mobile hotspot, through verizon) doesn't even OFFER unlimited. if we go over the 40 GB, it's 15 bucks a gig.

this is because my wife's parents live far enough outside the city that they don't have the option of cable internet. or DSL. or dial up. or satellite. believe me, i checked. and checked, and checked... literally the only option is mobile hotspots.

but hey, rent free... until i land some sort of decent paying job, it's what we've got...

now, if we lived a thusand feet down the road, we'd have FIBER OPTIC. *shoots self*

[Killerpotleaf]

i used to run a full node... then i moved, and now have limited (40 GB a month...) data. sigh.

its +10$/month for unlimited for me

my cellphone, through t-mobile, has unlimited, including hotspot. but it really means "28 GB, then we throttle you when it's busy" which is basically unusable, even for checking email at the busiest times.

our actual internet (again, a mobile hotspot, through verizon) doesn't even OFFER unlimited. if we go over the 40 GB, it's 15 bucks a gig.

this is because my wife's parents live far enough outside the city that they don't have the option of cable internet. or DSL. or dial up. or satellite. believe me, i checked. and checked, and checked... literally the only option is mobile hotspots.

but hey, rent free... until i land some sort of decent paying job, it's what we've got...

now, if we lived a thusand feet down the road, we'd have FIBER OPTIC. *shoots self*

ha ic, oh well, soon...

40GB on a phone? oh how things have changed... i need to get myself one of these super phones oneday 

[conspirosphere.tk]

Technically it looks like a bottom. 

[jbreher]

If I have to rely on another person to provide me with the block chain data, that is clearly the need for a trusted third party.

As long as there is no force barring you from firing up a node of your own, your criteria of access to trustlessness is satisfied. If you are unwilling to spend the rather negligible amount of money required to do so, that is not a fault of the system.

You are talking to someone who has been running a node on dedicated hardware 24/7 for 6 years now.

Sorry - I did not mean to offend. That was the rhetorical 'you'. I know you run a node - you've told me so, and if not, I would have assumed you did from your other postings. As do I.

I am more referring to the notion that node operational costs must be kept to an absolute minimum. In my opinion, if a potential operator is not willing to have some skin in the game, they will be worthless as a node anyway.

Though I reiterate my main point above: As long as there is no force barring you from firing up a node of your own, your criteria of access to trustlessness is satisfied.

[Holliday]

Sorry - I did not mean to offend. That was the rhetorical 'you'. I know you run a node - you've told me so, and if not, I would have assumed you did from your other postings. As do I.

I am more referring to the notion that node operational costs must be kept to an absolute minimum. In my opinion, if a potential operator is not willing to have some skin in the game, they will be worthless as a node anyway.

I think that Bitcoin has many more years (maybe decades) where it will need to defend itself from external attacks. It's simply too disruptive. I mean you have major western governments implementing additional capital controls on a regular basis and Bitcoin is quite obviously a way to avoid those controls. I don't think they are going to simply shrug their shoulders.

This is why I think it's very important to keep the requirements to run a node, and sustain the network, as low as possible.

This is why I think scaling should be done on an additional layer than can be peeled away should the need arise.

I'm sure I someone will come along and call me paranoid for having such views. Considering current events, I don't think a little paranoia is a bad thing. I prefer to look at it as being prepared. Erring on the side of decentralization is the prudent choice in my opinion.

[Ibian]

corrupt miners

Define what a "corrupt miner" is. I hope you have something better than "miners who do things that I just don't approve of".

[Ibian]

when the entire system is based around whatever the longest chain is.

longest chain ... in a max size of 1Mb.

That excuse doesn't work when bitcoin launched with higher than 1MB blocks in the first place so a "bitcoin can never fork" purist doesn't even have a valid reference point to stand on.  The fact is, just about everything regarding bitcoin (and every other cryptocurrency) is completely arbitrary in nature and wide open to rough consensus attack.  There are TWO ethereums.  There could be 100 ethereums tomorrow.  It's pretty much inevitable there will be more than one bitcoin.

This is why it's called a cryptocurrency and not money.  Currencies are arbitrary games that people create, while money does not fork or change.  I don't have to worry about Adam sneaking into my house and trying to fork my gold or silver.  Nobody should even own currency in the first place unless you actively use it or are a forex trader.  90% of this forum are basically acting as forex traders without the skills to do so.  It's also far more common for people holding currencies pretending they're stores of value to get horrifically burned than to profit.

We have been over this. Gold and silver coins absolutely can and do fork.

[bitserve]

Maybe all of this is just a pretty nice trick of JIhan BU. He must know the consequences of his actions in the price, so it is possible that he just shorted big time before and is now waiting to rebuy and then lay down his arms watching how price shoots to $1500 making him way richer than before.

Maybe Jihan BU is not that insane after all.

[Holliday]

As long as there is no force barring you from firing up a node of your own, your criteria of access to trustlessness is satisfied.

The barrier to entry to run full node is magnitudes higher than the barrier to entry to append the block chain.

Yet, you want to reduce the barrier to append the block chain while increasing the barrier to run a full node.

[AlexGR]

Maybe all of this is just a pretty nice trick of JIhan BU. He must know the consequences of his actions in the price, so it is possible that he just shorted big time before and is now waiting to rebuy and then lay down his arms watching how price shoots to $1500 making him way richer than before.

Maybe Jihan BU is not that insane after all.

I remember something, like a year ago, when there was the 'agreement' between some dev delegation and the miners, where I read there was some kind of pressure to get to an agreement because apparently someone had gone long.

The economic attack scenario is not out of the question, where fud or actual attacks are introduced to harm the price which was pre-shorted.

In investments/finance/economics, there are two powers which are of great importance:

1) The ability to predict the market
2) The ability to direct the market

...as in both cases you can profit big.

Miners can launch economic attacks due to (2) and then profit.

[r0ach]

when the entire system is based around whatever the longest chain is.

longest chain ... in a max size of 1Mb.

That excuse doesn't work when bitcoin launched with higher than 1MB blocks in the first place so a "bitcoin can never fork" purist doesn't even have a valid reference point to stand on.  The fact is, just about everything regarding bitcoin (and every other cryptocurrency) is completely arbitrary in nature and wide open to rough consensus attack.  There are TWO ethereums.  There could be 100 ethereums tomorrow.  It's pretty much inevitable there will be more than one bitcoin.

This is why it's called a cryptocurrency and not money.  Currencies are arbitrary games that people create, while money does not fork or change.  I don't have to worry about Adam sneaking into my house and trying to fork my gold or silver.  Nobody should even own currency in the first place unless you actively use it or are a forex trader.  90% of this forum are basically acting as forex traders without the skills to do so.  It's also far more common for people holding currencies pretending they're stores of value to get horrifically burned than to profit.

We have been over this. Gold and silver coins absolutely can and do fork.

Yes, we did go over this, and claiming gold and silver can "fork" is most idiotic thing I've ever heard.  Someone trying to debase or shave the currency is not "forking".  Calling that "forking" is laughable.  When they tried to do this in Rome, guess what happened?  The silver content of the denarius halved and soldiers just demanded twice as many coins for service, with vendors also demanding twice as many coins for goods.  There is no "fork", the market values the coins by metal content.  

Even if you could manage to trick people by doing this, the metal hasn't forked, it's still sitting there identically to how it was before.  Claiming it forked is like claiming if you have a gold eagle laying on the ground and a dog takes a shit on it that it's composition has changed somehow and is thus forked because something else is laying on top of it.  Two traits required of money are fungibility and durability, so because gold and silver are money, it can always be reconstituted in whole form without issue.

[Ibian]

when the entire system is based around whatever the longest chain is.

longest chain ... in a max size of 1Mb.

That excuse doesn't work when bitcoin launched with higher than 1MB blocks in the first place so a "bitcoin can never fork" purist doesn't even have a valid reference point to stand on.  The fact is, just about everything regarding bitcoin (and every other cryptocurrency) is completely arbitrary in nature and wide open to rough consensus attack.  There are TWO ethereums.  There could be 100 ethereums tomorrow.  It's pretty much inevitable there will be more than one bitcoin.

This is why it's called a cryptocurrency and not money.  Currencies are arbitrary games that people create, while money does not fork or change.  I don't have to worry about Adam sneaking into my house and trying to fork my gold or silver.  Nobody should even own currency in the first place unless you actively use it or are a forex trader.  90% of this forum are basically acting as forex traders without the skills to do so.  It's also far more common for people holding currencies pretending they're stores of value to get horrifically burned than to profit.

We have been over this. Gold and silver coins absolutely can and do fork.

Yes, we did go over this, and claiming gold and silver can "fork" is most idiotic thing I've ever heard.  Someone trying to debase or shave the currency is not "forking".  Calling that "forking" is laughable.  When they tried to do this in Rome, guess what happened?  The silver content of the denarius halved and soldiers just demanded twice as many coins for service, with vendors also demanding twice as many coins for goods.  There is no "fork", the market values the coins by metal content.  

Even if you could manage to trick people by doing this, the metal hasn't forked, it's still sitting there identically to how it was before.  Claiming it forked is like claiming if you have a gold eagle laying on the ground and a dog takes a shit on it that it's composition has changed somehow and is thus...forked because something else is laying on top of it.

When the king mixes his old solid gold coins with iron you end up with two different kinds of coins, both with his ugly face on them. That's a fork.

The good news for us is that if you use the wrong fork, you don't have to kiss madame guillotine.

[r0ach]

When the king mixes his old solid gold coins with iron you end up with two different kinds of coins, both with his ugly face on them. That's a fork.

Your definition of being able to "fork" elements on the periodic table is accepted by nobody else on earth besides yourself.  You're just making things up as you go.  All you're doing is describing a king trying to force people off a metals content based currency and onto a fiat currency.  Your argument has no point because nothing actually happened to change the metal.  It's still sitting there the same as before, just someone attempted to steal it through debasement.  Debasing is the same thing as shaving - physically removing a quantity.  Nothing about the metal actually "forked".

[Ibian]

When the king mixes his old solid gold coins with iron you end up with two different kinds of coins, both with his ugly face on them. That's a fork.

Your definition of being able to "fork" elements on the periodic table is accepted by nobody else on earth besides yourself.  You're just making things up as you go.

For that matter, we have forked gold now. Some of it is mixed with tungsten. Have you had yours checked?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I'm about to fork my peanut butter sandwich with some jam. 

Want some?

[Ibian]

I'm about to fork my peanut butter sandwich with some jam. 

Want some?

Depends. What does that do to the peanut's market value?

[r0ach]

This is fucking hilarious.  Bitfury sues to prevent bitcoin from being un-centralized!  This is why I can't stand bitcoin now.  These idiots even think it's supposed to be centralized.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/60ast5/bitfury_george_pledges_to_sue_all_involved_with/

[Ibian]

This is fucking hilarious.  Bitfury sues to prevent bitcoin from being un-centralized!  This is why I can't stand bitcoin now.  These idiots even think it's supposed to be centralized.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/60ast5/bitfury_george_pledges_to_sue_all_involved_with/

You are literally complaining that bitcoin is so successful than people other than internet nerds are becoming interested. This is Good News (Everyone)™.