Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Biro Bob]

We'll watch that chain split coin token on Bitfinex, but I would dare say other exchanges will be offering up split coin tokens as well, should there be an interest. Some may even get clever and find a way to split against an Alt lol

What a perfect wagering game.. BU  
This could get interesting...

What are they backing up these scam tokens with? Why would I want to buy scam tokens on finex when I can just buy BTC, and I'll have both BTC and BTU when and if the fork happens. I took a haircut, due to their "hack" and haven't been back since. I still have $.14 there. They can keep it.  

+1 - I was thinking the same thing. It's a ridiculous product. Not even a real alt-coin.

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[becoin]

Why would I want to buy scam tokens on finex when I can just buy BTC,

You won't. Neither do I.
But psychopaths like Ver and Wu might want to buy bitfinex tokens to prove their point!

[bitserve]

We'll watch that chain split coin token on Bitfinex, but I would dare say other exchanges will be offering up split coin tokens as well, should there be an interest. Some may even get clever and find a way to split against an Alt lol

What a perfect wagering game.. BU  
This could get interesting...

What are they backing up these scam tokens with? Why would I want to buy scam tokens on finex when I can just buy BTC, and I'll have both BTC and BTU when and if the fork happens. I took a haircut, due to their "hack" and haven't been back since. I still have $.14 there. They can keep it.  

Suppossedly they are backing up those token with the bitcoins used to buy them.... that if you trust that they are storing them in deposit to back it

[bones261]

We'll watch that chain split coin token on Bitfinex, but I would dare say other exchanges will be offering up split coin tokens as well, should there be an interest. Some may even get clever and find a way to split against an Alt lol

What a perfect wagering game.. BU  
This could get interesting...

What are they backing up these scam tokens with? Why would I want to buy scam tokens on finex when I can just buy BTC, and I'll have both BTC and BTU when and if the fork happens. I took a haircut, due to their "hack" and haven't been back since. I still have $.14 there. They can keep it.  

+1 - I was thinking the same thing. It's a ridiculous product. Not even a real alt-coin.

I guess some investards will throw their money at anything, hoping it sticks. They would probably have better luck just sticking to lotto tickets.

Suppossedly they are backing up those token with the bitcoins used to buy them.... that if you trust that they are storing them in deposit to back it

I would trust a mugger with a gun to my chest with my money more than Finex.

[Torque]

The Jihadi Woo malicious miner problem is something of nightmares for bitcoin but maybe the final test before mainstream adoption nirvana.

One thing Woo (and idiot Ver) may not have accounted for is by centralising so much power around themselves they are now major targets for any variant of the $5 wrench attack motivated by an incentive for control over a $20 billion monetary security system (or its demise) .... not smart guys by any stretch of the imagination. They might want to start spending that "$100 millions" they budgeted on attacking core (100's of decentralised developers) on some high class personal security.

You would think Ver knows enough of the cypherpunk history to know what happened to e-Gold, Liberty Reserve, e-Bullion, etc central actors. If you want to go centralised with your digital money expect to become the prime target for some major league criminals.

They are also underestimating the number of Bitcoin early adopters.... who hold rather LARGE amounts of bitcoin based on Libertarian principles as opposed to economic reasons. Decentralization of mining is a cornerstone principle to them. If these early adopters feel that the Bitcoin network is being threatened by a sense of centralized control (monopoly?) and developer incompetence, I'm sure they won't hesitate to dump the shit out of their BU whatever coins right into the ground.

[travwill]

we'll be back over 1000$ in no time.

Yep! 1k incoming,,,, maybe people are giving up the debate or just willing to get back to normal and let the chips fall where they may with BU... who knows lol

Nah, I'd assume we are the standard rolling wave down still, each time lower.

[bitserve]

we'll be back over 1000$ in no time.

Yep! 1k incoming,,,, maybe people are giving up the debate or just willing to get back to normal and let the chips fall where they may with BU... who knows lol

Someone made the analogy of increasing the blocksize of going from 1MB to 2MB to 4MB etc.. as the equivalent of going from 2400 to 14.4k, 28.8k, 33.6 modems etc... Whats the problem with that? My 28.8 was awesome compared to my 14.4.

You're not going to have rapid VISA scale transactions on a blockchain. Bitcoin works as it is... not necessarily for buying coffee... but in terms of 'adoption' it has a much wider circulation than any alt coin and can shift large chunks of money around relatively quickly.

The problem is that blockchain is suppossed to be a decentralised network. And for each doubling in block size you are wasting double reasource multiplied for each bitcoin node. Also, at present time, the resources needed in bandwidth and storage are so heavy that the number of nodes has remain almost constant for past years while the price and hashrate has been rising and rising.

At this time, you either have to choose between a (sorta) decentralised blockchain with small blocks or a more centralised blockchain with bigger blocks.

A compromise is segwit+LN which is the only really scalable solution.

Some miners don't like segwit+LN because that means many transactions would be done at LN layer and they wouldn't get a fee of that transactions. Maybe they could grow their current business by setting LN hubs themselves to get a piece of that cake... But I guess they are too obtuse to realise that posibility.

Sorry. I didn't mean 2MB, 4MB etc.. i was thinking more in terms of scaling upto < 2MB. So that could be 1.1MB or 1.2MB blocks.

The difference would be negligible. At present time Bitcoin needs almost double capacity. You don't solve anything with a 10% increase... and it would need a hard fork anways. Segwit would provide the equivalent of aprox 1.8MB. Also, adding LN on top of it would provide for almost unlimited transactions VISA/Paypal style.
You could always choose to use LN for your small unimportant transactions (ie: buying cofee) and directly blockchain for moving your "big" fund.

Also, increasing the block size in the future would not be out of question... but first must come first, and that is segwit.

[prcko]

Why are people even comparing btc with visa. First mass adoption should be the remittance market hence people should compare btc with western union. Btc wins hands down. 20 cents fee instead of the 10-20% ripoff WU? Wu takes 2hours at least vs half an hour btc. Oh yeah, btc works 24/7/365.

Also for coffee drinkers there are plenty of btc debit cards that one can use if so inclined.


Plus we need the "high" btc fees for future halvings, and eventually when all btcs are mined fees are the only rewards for miners.


IMO

[r0ach]

One thing Woo (and idiot Ver) may not have accounted for is by centralising so much power around themselves they are now major targets for any variant of the $5 wrench attack motivated by an incentive for control over a $20 billion monetary security system (or its demise) .... not smart guys by any stretch of the imagination. They might want to start spending that "$100 millions" they budgeted on attacking core (100's of decentralised developers) on some high class personal security.

You would think Ver knows enough of the cypherpunk history to know what happened to e-Gold, Liberty Reserve, e-Bullion, etc central actors. If you want to go centralised with your digital money expect to become the prime target for some major league criminals.

By that logic, such an attack would have occurred years ago on people like Gavinator, Wlad, or Gmaxwell already...

[Killerpotleaf]

we'll be back over 1000$ in no time.

Yep! 1k incoming,,,, maybe people are giving up the debate or just willing to get back to normal and let the chips fall where they may with BU... who knows lol

Nah, I'd assume we are the standard rolling wave down still, each time lower.

that was yesterday's thing

[Killerpotleaf]

One thing Woo (and idiot Ver) may not have accounted for is by centralising so much power around themselves they are now major targets for any variant of the $5 wrench attack motivated by an incentive for control over a $20 billion monetary security system (or its demise) .... not smart guys by any stretch of the imagination. They might want to start spending that "$100 millions" they budgeted on attacking core (100's of decentralised developers) on some high class personal security.

You would think Ver knows enough of the cypherpunk history to know what happened to e-Gold, Liberty Reserve, e-Bullion, etc central actors. If you want to go centralised with your digital money expect to become the prime target for some major league criminals.

Except such an attack would have occurred years ago on people like Gavinator, Wlad, or Gmaxwell already...

if anyone person had that kind of control, we wouldn't care about bitcoin.

[MinermanNC]

This is the part that boggles me a bit lol with Bitfinex.... or maybe I'm just tired lol   seems redundant or something

If, however, there is a fork, specifically Bitcoin Unlimited, then, as soon as we list Bitcoin Unlimited, we will exchange BCU tokens for Bitcoin Unlimited tokens as well as retiring BCC tokens in favor of Bitcoin Core tokens.

[andyatcrux]

The Jihadi Woo malicious miner problem is something of nightmares for bitcoin but maybe the final test before mainstream adoption nirvana.

One thing Woo (and idiot Ver) may not have accounted for is by centralising so much power around themselves they are now major targets for any variant of the $5 wrench attack motivated by an incentive for control over a $20 billion monetary security system (or its demise) .... not smart guys by any stretch of the imagination. They might want to start spending that "$100 millions" they budgeted on attacking core (100's of decentralised developers) on some high class personal security.

You would think Ver knows enough of the cypherpunk history to know what happened to e-Gold, Liberty Reserve, e-Bullion, etc central actors. If you want to go centralised with your digital money expect to become the prime target for some major league criminals.

They are also underestimating the number of Bitcoin early adopters.... who hold rather LARGE amounts of bitcoin based on Libertarian principles as opposed to economic reasons. Decentralization of mining is a cornerstone principle to them. If these early adopters feel that the Bitcoin network is being threatened by a sense of centralized control (monopoly?) and developer incompetence, I'm sure they won't hesitate to dump the shit out of their BU whatever coins right into the ground.

Both goods points, I was thinking the same thing and wondering if Roger Ver had some form of autism or some other impediment that may be preventing him from seeing the potential risks he is facing by destroying people's wealth; risks up to and including his own demise.

[Biro Bob]

Why are people even comparing btc with visa. First mass adoption should be the remittance market hence people should compare btc with western union. Btc wins hands down. 20 cents fee instead of the 10-20% ripoff WU? Wu takes 2hours at least vs half an hour btc. Oh yeah, btc works 24/7/365.

Also for coffee drinkers there are plenty of btc debit cards that one can use if so inclined.


Plus we need the "high" btc fees for future halvings, and eventually when all btcs are mined fees are the only rewards for miners.


IMO

I agree with this. The Philippines has an excellent web service called coins.ph - which allows people to maintain a balance in both pesos and bitcoin. Peso to peso transactions are instant and free. They also provide a fee free virtual visa card, great mobile wallet and an amazing network of outlets everywhere for cashing in and out. You can pay all your bills online and their customer service is excellent, If every country gets a coins.ph, Western Union, Xoom and paypal would become irrelevant and obsolete.

[European Central Bank]

Both goods points, I was thinking the same thing and wondering if Roger Ver had some form of autism or some other impediment that may be preventing him from seeing the potential risks he is facing by destroying people's wealth; risks up to and including his own demise.

you could say the exact same thing about mark karpeles. he must have destroyed the wealth of tens of thousands of people, possibly some completely.

what did vigilantes do? try to interrupt his coffee drinking on the way into the office.

[Killerpotleaf]

This is the part that boggles me a bit lol with Bitfinex.... or maybe I'm just tired lol   seems redundant or something

If, however, there is a fork, specifically Bitcoin Unlimited, then, as soon as we list Bitcoin Unlimited, we will exchange BCU tokens for Bitcoin Unlimited tokens as well as retiring BCC tokens in favor of Bitcoin Core tokens.

BCU isn't bitcoin unlimited coins because such a thing doesn't exist.
I guess they are going to create completely separate markets once it actually forks, to make it clear, that these current markets are trading "hypothetical coins"

BTC is dead.
Hello BCC and BCU!
what a shame...

[Torque]

This is the part that boggles me a bit lol with Bitfinex.... or maybe I'm just tired lol   seems redundant or something

If, however, there is a fork, specifically Bitcoin Unlimited, then, as soon as we list Bitcoin Unlimited, we will exchange BCU tokens for Bitcoin Unlimited tokens as well as retiring BCC tokens in favor of Bitcoin Core tokens.

BCU isn't bitcoin unlimited coins because such a thing doesn't exist.
I guess they are going to create completely separate markets once it actually forks, to make it clear, that these current markets are trading "hypothetical coins"

BTC is dead.
Hello BCC and BCU!
what a shame...

[r0ach]

Both goods points, I was thinking the same thing and wondering if Roger Ver had some form of autism or some other impediment that may be preventing him from seeing the potential risks he is facing by destroying people's wealth; risks up to and including his own demise.

Depends if you believe lightning network will function in a decentralized manner or will be a valid scaling solution in general or not.  If you think it won't, Bitcoin needs around 8MB blocks at minium to be globally relevant as a payment system, and even then transaction fees are gonna be yuge.  It would still be limited to things like realtors or car salesmen doing big transactions, or people transferring something like $10,000 of their bitcoin at a time to a centralized off-chain payment system like the Bitpay Visa.

Such a use case would still only place bitcoin in the status of settlement layer.  I personally believe bitcoin does not function as a store of value, which is inherently required to be a settlement layer.  If people were looking for the base of Exter's pyramid (store of value) you should be looking at gold and silver instead.  Due to this, the price of bitcoin has to be floated by just raw transaction processing numbers aka utility, so huge scaling is imperative to it's price.  

The only way currently known to get that type of scaling is a solution like LN, so it seems like to me that the life and death of Bitcoin may rest on the ability of LN to work or not.

[marcus_of_augustus]

One thing Woo (and idiot Ver) may not have accounted for is by centralising so much power around themselves they are now major targets for any variant of the $5 wrench attack motivated by an incentive for control over a $20 billion monetary security system (or its demise) .... not smart guys by any stretch of the imagination. They might want to start spending that "$100 millions" they budgeted on attacking core (100's of decentralised developers) on some high class personal security.

You would think Ver knows enough of the cypherpunk history to know what happened to e-Gold, Liberty Reserve, e-Bullion, etc central actors. If you want to go centralised with your digital money expect to become the prime target for some major league criminals.

By that logic, such an attack would have occurred years ago on people like Gavinator, Wlad, or Gmaxwell already...

No, you are wrong again. These guys were smart and stood down when it appears they are having the "ring" of power ... Gavin stood down as "Chief Scientist" when the debate began to centralise around him, Wlad has taken the lesser role of repository maintainer and judiciously stays out of any political dramas by sticking precisely to technical discussions, Gmaxwell gave up his commit access right keys to the Core repo as soon as he become a target.

You would think after the destruction of DreadPirateRoberts, Shrem, Karpeles, Hearn and others who try to become "leaders", people would have learned that is a fool's errand. Satoshi's example wasn't just a cute disappearing trick, it is a fundamental necessity to the security model for decentralised monetary network.

Any tiny abuse of 'power' by actors in the bitcoin space has been dealt with swiftly and severely by forces both within and from outside. I kind of feel sorry for Woo, it will drive him crazy before it destroys him.

[AlexGR]

You would think after the destruction of Hearn and others who try to become "leaders" people would have learned that is a fool's errand. Satoshi's example wasn't just a cute disappearing trick, it is a fundamental necessity to the security model for decentralised monetary network.

BU has sorted this out too... A Bitcoin ...President

https://www.bitcoinunlimited.info/articles

Article 2: Confederation
...
President: a publicly identified (real-life identity is known) BU Member who is responsible for the ongoing activities of the confederation. The president shall resolve BUIP number conflicts, organize BUIP discussion (in the forum designated by the secretary), and schedule/initiate voting (within the limits specified in these articles).

...you can't make this stuff up. I thought the reddit image might have been tampered or something and went to check myself.

...A president.

...A fucking president.