Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Gab0]

2011: 1 btc = 1 skateboard
2013: 1 btc = 1 bicycle
2014: 1 btc = 1 moped
2017: 1 btc = 1 fiat
2023: 1 btc = 1 lambo

 Yeah but the lambo tx is gonna take until 2030 to confirm.

And the fee is gonna cost 1 fiat.

I thought the same thing 

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[rolling]

This was on Seth Meyers last night too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMv9uKpAZg

[RejectedBanana]

Yeah, every trade is a taxable event to US persons. Whether that is buying coffee or litecoin. It is property according to the IRS.

Even if you thought you could get away with the like kind exchange rule, you still have to report every trade individually on the exemption form.

If it were classified as a stock, you could just report net gains and losses but not so with property.

They have made compliance nearly impossible so unless someone passes a law to exempt transactions prior to a certain date, a lot of people are going to owe back taxes and penalties if not jail time.

Simple solution: Become an expat.

Not so easy or simple, unfortunately. Have you heard of the Exit Tax? Capital gains are realized for high net worth individuals upon renouncing.

You still owe cap gains if you don't renounce and just expat. Unless you plan on just hiding and never setting foot in US again nor using any international banks cooperating with FinCen rules.

Puerto Rico offers tax free cap gains for residents, but you still owe on any gains realized up to the date you become a resident.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/02/27/renounce-u-s-heres-how-irs-computes-exit-tax/#45c8627287d4

No, I actually haven't heard of the exit tax. It does make sense to some degree, or at least it would if taxes were legitimate in the first place. But regardless of whether or not you'd choose to pay what you "owe" before renouncing, it still doesn't sound like anyone who expects any significant profits should be staying in the US any longer than absolutely necessary for whatever individual circumstances.

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response. Although she's warming up to it proportionally to crypto value.

Which begs the question, how much is US citizenship worth? A US passport gets you in a lot of places without visas or trouble. Attaining citizenship in another country takes time and often a good deal of (traceable, taxable) fiat. Although being stateless is an option, it's not recommended for long. You have no rights, anywhere.

Can't your wife just live with you while you "make all the money" as a renounced citizen? That way you wouldn't have to tax your profits, and she could visit her relatives without any issues.

And no, I don't live in the US so that's not a concern for me. And my family would follow me blindly if I asked them to and told them that I'd take care of everything.

And really, considering that the lowest CGT rate is 20% in the US I'd take the money and apply for visas over keeping citizenship to a mess of a country. There are other countries that have "free passes" to most relevant places and low taxes too, although I don't know how difficult it would be for an US citizen to get citizenship there. I'd imagine it can't be too bad.

If long term cap gains are your only income, then the first $70k (married) is 0%, the next half a million is 15%, anything over half a million is 20%.  The effect tax rate on half a million is only 12%.  On a modest $150k realized per year, the effective tax rate is 8%. That's like sales tax, dude.

Agreed that the country is a hot mess. After years of expating, I just returned. Poor timing.

[xhomerx10]

Listen, I know these are difficult times. But let's try to remain civil. Remember why we're here.

To crush souls and steal their money? Yeah, most of us seem to have forgotten.

To make sure (((Goldman Sachs))) is left holding the bag on completely valueless, imaginary assets like bitcoin and ethereum while the goyim sell retardedly overvalued craptocurrency to buy up the whole silver and gold market.

Do you really think the minnows that hang out here can possibly make even a dent in the PM supply?   Maybe you ought to hit up the Winklevoss twins. However, I don't think even they could muster enough to make a dent. Maybe you can get Barry to suddenly change the investment strategy of DCG.  

2 billion oz above ground silver = $32 billion
bitcoin market cap = $242 billion

 Come on man.  Peru alone has 120,000 MT of silver reserve.  That's 3.85 billion troy ounces.  I think your numbers are way off.

edit: World reserves are 1.832593e+10 troy ounces or ~$293,214,880,000
I guess Bitcoin is more desirable than silver right now... but the tables could turn.

[Rosewater Foundation]

This was on Seth Myers last night too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMv9uKpAZg

lel

[bitserve]

It was no joke, I actually did the calculation:

Current Bitcoin price: $15.000
Reasonable Average Lambo Price: $300.000

So for 1 BTC to be worth $300.000 we would need a 20x

If you have a somewhat fragmented wallet you can end with a $100 fee right now for "premium delivery". Note: You are a Lambo purchaser, so you don't want to look cheap, you go for premium of course.

$100*20x=$2000

Well, I have seen good condition second hand Fiats for less. So, there you go, 1 Fiat fee for a 1 Lambo purchase.

P.S.: Some figures slightly rounded for easy of comprehension. Some additional factors that could worsen or alleviate network congestion not taken into consideration. No animals were harmed during the making of the calculations. This is not investment advice.

[jojo69]

This was on Seth Myers last night too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMv9uKpAZg

wow...they actually packed a lot of information in that, and finished with a zinger...I like it

[adaseb]

The grand-finale would of been if it makes a double bottom @ $10K with piercing $10K slightly to hit the stops and rebounding.

Many retail traders/noobs probably got their stop-loss set at $10,000 exactly.

[bones261]

2 billion oz above ground silver = $32 billion
bitcoin market cap = $242 billion

 Come on man.  Peru alone has 120,000 MT of silver reserve.  That's 3.85 billion troy ounces.  I think your numbers are way off.

The "reserves" are not above ground, yet.

[annam2017]

BTC reduced and grab points to continue to increase a new point. Please wait

[PoolMinor]

Inverse H+S forming on 30 minute Stamp (target $14,900)






https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inverseheadandshoulders.asp

[404Revolution]

Listen, I know these are difficult times. But let's try to remain civil. Remember why we're here.

To crush souls and steal their money? Yeah, most of us seem to have forgotten.

I may be interpreting this incorrectly but you seem rather passive aggressive. How much in fiat have you lost so far?

I haven't lost anything in the market move because I divested from BTC but the constant attempt to make this process appear clean is exactly the evidence that it isn't.

Any gains are another's losses: Always. Sooner or later. It's easy to say everyone is winning when the market is on the ascent but all the flowery language about changing the world will never circumvent the carnal reality of this earth.

[orpington]

The grand-finale would of been if it makes a double bottom @ $10K with piercing $10K slightly to hit the stops and rebounding.

Many retail traders/noobs probably got their stop-loss set at $10,000 exactly.

in about 12 hours

[Gab0]

It was no joke, I actually did the calculation:

Current Bitcoin price: $15.000
Reasonable Average Lambo Price: $300.000

So for 1 BTC to be worth $300.000 we would need a 20x

If you have a somewhat fragmented wallet you can end with a $100 fee right now for "premium delivery". Note: You are a Lambo purchaser, so you don't want to look cheap, you go for premium of course.

$100*20x=$2000

Well, I have seen good condition second hand Fiats for less. So, there you go, 1 Fiat fee for a 1 Lambo purchase.

P.S.: Some figures slightly rounded for easy of comprehension. Some additional factors that could worsen or alleviate network congestion not taken into consideration. No animals were harmed during the making of the calculations. This is not investment advice.

I do not know whether to laugh or cry. I also do not know what to expect at this point: whether to accept the situation and resign myself to thinking that bitcoin has turned into digital gold and money from large financial institutions, or to continue waiting for some "solution"; and I'm not just talking about LN, because if we continue like this, inevitably opening and closing a channel will cost $ 1000 in fees.

[nikauforest]

Here is some info for those interested in 2nd countries.

http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-where-you-can-buy-citizenship-or-residency-2017-6?IR=T

http://nomadcapitalist.com/2014/04/06/top-5-expat-friendly-countries-with-no-capital-gains-taxes/

[bones261]

It was no joke, I actually did the calculation:

Current Bitcoin price: $15.000
Reasonable Average Lambo Price: $300.000

So for 1 BTC to be worth $300.000 we would need a 20x

If you have a somewhat fragmented wallet you can end with a $100 fee right now for "premium delivery". Note: You are a Lambo purchaser, so you don't want to look cheap, you go for premium of course.

$100*20x=$2000

Well, I have seen good condition second hand Fiats for less. So, there you go, 1 Fiat fee for a 1 Lambo purchase.

P.S.: Some figures slightly rounded for easy of comprehension. Some additional factors that could worsen or alleviate network congestion not taken into consideration. No animals were harmed during the making of the calculations. This is not investment advice.

I do not know whether to laugh or cry. I also do not know what to expect at this point: whether to accept the situation and resign myself to thinking that bitcoin has turned into digital gold and money from large financial institutions, or to continue waiting for some "solution"; and I'm not just talking about LN, because if we continue like this, inevitably opening and closing a channel will cost $ 1000 in fees.

If I spend all of the BTC that I have in a channel, I don't need to worry about closing it. That would be the other guy's problem. No? LN is not for HODLs. It's for people wanting to either use it as a cheap and easy arb channel or because they want coffee. I definitely wouldn't HODL my BTC in a LN channel. Are you kidding?

[realr0ach]

Listen, I know these are difficult times. But let's try to remain civil. Remember why we're here.

To crush souls and steal their money? Yeah, most of us seem to have forgotten.

To make sure (((Goldman Sachs))) is left holding the bag on completely valueless, imaginary assets like bitcoin and ethereum while the goyim sell retardedly overvalued craptocurrency to buy up the whole silver and gold market.

Do you really think the minnows that hang out here can possibly make even a dent in the PM supply?   Maybe you ought to hit up the Winklevoss twins. However, I don't think even they could muster enough to make a dent. Maybe you can get Barry to suddenly change the investment strategy of DCG.  

2 billion oz above ground silver = $32 billion
bitcoin market cap = $242 billion

Come on man.  Peru alone has 120,000 MT of silver reserve.  That's 3.85 billion troy ounces.  I think your numbers are way off.

I'm talking about above ground investment grade silver that can be delivered to market.  You're talking about so called "deep storage" silver, which isn't even economical to extract.  Even so, you referenced (the largest below ground silver reserve in the world?) and it's only $60.8 billion.  But that's like saying trees aren't valuable because I saw a tree over there we haven't cut down and dragged to market yet.  

It requires two neutron stars colliding to make that silver, so unlike the tree, once that largest in the world silver reserve is gone, you aren't getting another one.  And mostly unlike gold, civilization actually needs that silver to function and uses it up all the time.  It also might take some astronomical time span like 20 years to extract the silver you referenced, and might cost an order of magnitude higher silver prices for it to happen.  When you say the world has so and so amount of silver below ground, the number is meaningless because it might cost $100+ an ounce to extract the stuff you're talking about.

[bitserve]

It was no joke, I actually did the calculation:

Current Bitcoin price: $15.000
Reasonable Average Lambo Price: $300.000

So for 1 BTC to be worth $300.000 we would need a 20x

If you have a somewhat fragmented wallet you can end with a $100 fee right now for "premium delivery". Note: You are a Lambo purchaser, so you don't want to look cheap, you go for premium of course.

$100*20x=$2000

Well, I have seen good condition second hand Fiats for less. So, there you go, 1 Fiat fee for a 1 Lambo purchase.

P.S.: Some figures slightly rounded for easy of comprehension. Some additional factors that could worsen or alleviate network congestion not taken into consideration. No animals were harmed during the making of the calculations. This is not investment advice.

I do not know whether to laugh or cry. I also do not know what to expect at this point: whether to accept the situation and resign myself to thinking that bitcoin has turned into digital gold and money from large financial institutions, or to continue waiting for some "solution"; and I'm not just talking about LN, because if we continue like this, inevitably opening and closing a channel will cost $ 1000 in fees.

If I spend all of the BTC that I have in a channel, I don't need to worry about closing it. That would be the other guy's problem. No? LN is not for HODLs. It's for people wanting to either use it as a cheap and easy arb channel or because they want coffee.

Do you expect the other end to settle the channel and not to repeat the fee + profit to you? What kind of world do you think we live in?

[bones261]

I'm talking about above ground investment grade silver that can be delivered to market.  You're talking about so called "deep storage" silver, which isn't even economical to extract.  Even so, you referenced (the largest below ground silver reserve in the world?) and it's only $60.8 billion.  But that's like saying trees aren't valuable because I saw a tree over there we haven't cut down and dragged to market yet.  

It requires two neutron stars colliding to make that silver, so unlike the tree, once that largest in the world silver reserve is gone, you aren't getting another one.  And mostly unlike gold, civilization actually needs that silver to function and uses it up all the time.  It also might take some astronomical time span like 20 years to extract the silver you referenced, and might cost an order of magnitude higher silver prices for it to happen.

Silver can be produced through the s-process in larger stars and can also be produced in normal supernova through the r-process. The two neutron stars colliding is just an extreme way to get the r-process going.

[realr0ach]

Silver can be produced through the s-process in larger stars and can also be produced in normal supernova through the r-process. The two neutron stars colliding is just an extreme way to get the r-process going.

Unless you plan to hold a cup out on earth while standing in the blast zone of a supernova raining down on you, the semantics of that equation are not so important concerning the mostly closed ecosystem of this planet.