Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Biodom]

yeah me too, and I predict that it is gpoing to get harder and harder to convert your bitcoins to fiat, especially the early ones, that's why I have been selling all year and buying bitcoin cetificates instead. That way I get the money in to the system, and then I can use these "clean" money to buy "clean" bitcoin in the future. I am however saving 10% of my old stash just in case I need some old anonymous coins in the future.

Are you talking about swedish bitcoin ETN (Bitcoin tracker one)?
I bought some in Fidelity, not much, though.
I don't know about Sweden, but in Germany it could be done painlessly since btc cap gains over a year are not taxable.
In US, you would get hit with some tax (depending on exchanged value, could be as high as 23.4% of profits).

[Hueristic]

https://imgur.com/gallery/QjI8FUU

[d_eddie]

It will be worth it in your old age, when you are having to eat cat food and sleep in cardboard boxes because you spent most if not all of your BTC to deliver us original quality upside down heart nebula shots... and at least you enjoy it, right?  right?

Endgame of a life
Deliciously cheap ramen
Expensive cat food






#haiku

[Arriemoller]

yeah me too, and I predict that it is gpoing to get harder and harder to convert your bitcoins to fiat, especially the early ones, that's why I have been selling all year and buying bitcoin cetificates instead. That way I get the money in to the system, and then I can use these "clean" money to buy "clean" bitcoin in the future. I am however saving 10% of my old stash just in case I need some old anonymous coins in the future.

Are you talking about swedish bitcoin ETN (Bitcoin tracker one)?
I bought some in Fidelity, not much, though.
I don't know about Sweden, but in Germany it could be done painlessly since btc cap gains over a year are not taxable.
In US, you would get hit with some tax (depending on exchanged value, could be as high as 23.4% of profits).

No, I'm talking about these four.

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/563966/bitcoin-xbt

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/599180/bitcoin-xbte

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1164452/valour-bitcoin-btc-zero-sek

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1264363/track-bitcoin-ii-von

I have my money divided almost equal between the four, and I have them in a ISK, that's an account with very little tax.

https://thewahman.com/swedish-isk/#who-can-open-an-isk-investment-savings-account

In Sweden you pay 30% tax on the gain with a free sum of about 35000 SEK or thereabout if I remember correctly, regardless of how long you have had your coins.

[Biodom]

yeah me too, and I predict that it is gpoing to get harder and harder to convert your bitcoins to fiat, especially the early ones, that's why I have been selling all year and buying bitcoin cetificates instead. That way I get the money in to the system, and then I can use these "clean" money to buy "clean" bitcoin in the future. I am however saving 10% of my old stash just in case I need some old anonymous coins in the future.

Are you talking about swedish bitcoin ETN (Bitcoin tracker one)?
I bought some in Fidelity, not much, though.
I don't know about Sweden, but in Germany it could be done painlessly since btc cap gains over a year are not taxable.
In US, you would get hit with some tax (depending on exchanged value, could be as high as 23.4% of profits).

No, I'm talking about these four.

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/563966/bitcoin-xbt


https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/599180/bitcoin-xbte

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1164452/valour-bitcoin-btc-zero-sek

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1264363/track-bitcoin-ii-von

I have my money divided almost equal between the four, and I have them in a ISK, that's an account with very little tax.

https://thewahman.com/swedish-isk/#who-can-open-an-isk-investment-savings-account

In Sweden you pay 30% tax on the gain with a free sum of about 35000 SEK or thereabout if I remember correctly, regardless of how long you have had your coins.

since bitcoin tracker one has an exact same price as the first of "certificates" you are talking about (SEK 739.00), it probably means that it is the same thing, just called differently on US and swedish websites.
https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/COINXBT:SS

[Arriemoller]

yeah me too, and I predict that it is gpoing to get harder and harder to convert your bitcoins to fiat, especially the early ones, that's why I have been selling all year and buying bitcoin cetificates instead. That way I get the money in to the system, and then I can use these "clean" money to buy "clean" bitcoin in the future. I am however saving 10% of my old stash just in case I need some old anonymous coins in the future.

Are you talking about swedish bitcoin ETN (Bitcoin tracker one)?
I bought some in Fidelity, not much, though.
I don't know about Sweden, but in Germany it could be done painlessly since btc cap gains over a year are not taxable.
In US, you would get hit with some tax (depending on exchanged value, could be as high as 23.4% of profits).

No, I'm talking about these four.

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/563966/bitcoin-xbt


https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/599180/bitcoin-xbte

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1164452/valour-bitcoin-btc-zero-sek

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1264363/track-bitcoin-ii-von

I have my money divided almost equal between the four, and I have them in a ISK, that's an account with very little tax.

https://thewahman.com/swedish-isk/#who-can-open-an-isk-investment-savings-account

In Sweden you pay 30% tax on the gain with a free sum of about 35000 SEK or thereabout if I remember correctly, regardless of how long you have had your coins.

since bitcoin tracker one has an exact same price as the first of "certificates" you are talking about (SEK 739.00), it probably means that it is the same thing, just called differently on US and swedish websites.
https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/COINXBT:SS

Could be, or just a freak coincidence.

[gallianooo]

When we were bouncing around at $18K I was telling myself that I think the next leg down will be the one to buy.  As we dip into the 15's I can't help but think this is the dip people have been waiting for.  There's still a ton of uncertainty and even more bad news on the horizon, but I think we've gone low enough in the short term (once this Genesis stuff is cleared up).  I think we're likely to start seeing a runup before the halving soon, with a small crash as we go into the halving and people cash out profits, followed by the start of the next bull run.  That's how it's gone in the past anyway.

Mostly agree with you. Just the point related to the "crash" before the 2020 halving... Hmm It was caused  by the express covid crash... Unexpected and rare (hopefully) situation. Not sure if it's relevant to compare with this for 2024, but let see.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[philipma1957]

Of note....in Houston, TX, real estate taxes are 'killing" me every darned year.
They are roughly 2% per year per current year RE value...you can have 3X of the house (in $) in Cali, 4X in Colorado for the same tax.
As valuation rises, that 2% becomes more and more. The only limit of increase is 10% increase max for the year, but if, say, property value increased 20% in a year, this means that you would get hit with 10% tax increase two years in a row, unless value drops in year 2.

I know that New Jersey tax is even more (don't know if there are any deductions, age or other in NJ).
If bitcoin will truly "make it", I would definitely buy a second house in US, but ONLY in low RE tax places (hawaii, cali, CO, maybe even Virginia), not in NH or Vermont, even though i want that house to be in a colder climate. Heck, maybe i would even look at BC, Canada.

We get homestead rebate in NJ we are in a good town with okay taxes for NJ

but our home will go from 350k to 450k value by local Gov and taxes will push 9k rebate will be 1500 so maybe 7500 net next year.

We are in Howell Monmouth country.

My  house if in Teaneck Bergen county  in North Jersey my home would be  950k and tax would be 25k, but a very short ride to NYC which is why it is so costly.

[Biodom]

When we were bouncing around at $18K I was telling myself that I think the next leg down will be the one to buy.  As we dip into the 15's I can't help but think this is the dip people have been waiting for.  There's still a ton of uncertainty and even more bad news on the horizon, but I think we've gone low enough in the short term (once this Genesis stuff is cleared up).  I think we're likely to start seeing a runup before the halving soon, with a small crash as we go into the halving and people cash out profits, followed by the start of the next bull run.  That's how it's gone in the past anyway.

Mostly agree with you. Just the point related to the "crash" before the 2020 halving... Hmm It was caused  by the express covid crash... Unexpected and rare (hopefully) situation. Not sure if it's relevant to compare with this for 2024, but let see.

We can have expected 'unexpected' any time now, that's for sure.
Makes you either paranoid or philosophical about life and everything else, like having or not having more funds.

[eXPHorizon]

Forgive them Father, they know not what they do... And when the lamb opend the 7 seal there was silence in heaven , and the 7 angels before god were given 7 trumpets ... and there were noises, thunderings,  lightnings and an earthquake.. and i heard a GREAT Voice say to the Angels , go your ways... and POUR from the VIALS THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THE EARTH

[gallianooo]

Recently, I was thinking if the BTC ATH would have been higher without the COVID ?

I don't think I saw this argument on the WO discussion.

We can probably (easily) admit that we wouldn't have seen this crash below 4K$ in march 2020. But at the same time, we would have seen more than 69K$ at the top ?

FED, all central banks all around the world just printed printed brrrrrrrr without any limit or any plan and gave lot a fresh money for Wall Street and all investors to (over) speculate. This situation (at this level) didn't happen since decades.

I know some members here are not agree on it, but the fact is that BTC (or the crypto industry in general) is currently still fucking linked with the tech (nasdaq) movements (except for some specific issues and mess like with LUNA, Celsius, or FTX).

Without this free no limit money, probably the stocks and Nasdaq especially wouldn't go this high till end 2021 / before the war. And probably the same for BTC.

It's hard to say, but maybe this allows us to relativize a little bit.  Although most of us (myself included) thought that we would go higher than "only" x3.5 from 2017 ATH.

[gallianooo]

When we were bouncing around at $18K I was telling myself that I think the next leg down will be the one to buy.  As we dip into the 15's I can't help but think this is the dip people have been waiting for.  There's still a ton of uncertainty and even more bad news on the horizon, but I think we've gone low enough in the short term (once this Genesis stuff is cleared up).  I think we're likely to start seeing a runup before the halving soon, with a small crash as we go into the halving and people cash out profits, followed by the start of the next bull run.  That's how it's gone in the past anyway.

Mostly agree with you. Just the point related to the "crash" before the 2020 halving... Hmm It was caused  by the express covid crash... Unexpected and rare (hopefully) situation. Not sure if it's relevant to compare with this for 2024, but let see.

We can have expected 'unexpected' any time now, that's for sure.
Makes you either paranoid or philosophical about life and everything else, like having or not having more funds.

Sure, everything can happen any time now. Maybe with more probability that before. But still. If we stay rational and statistical, i don't see lot of probably to have new war, or new worldwide pandemic or other crazy things, every year or even every 5/10 years. Past and history never proved that till now.

[JayJuanGee]

Hello guys. It's difficult to follow up on all the drama, even if I'm not involved in most of these sites/schemes/shitcoins.
I have some USDC, not much as I'm at the bottom of my buying ladder so mostly in BTC (for my trading stashes), do you think it's safe enough ?

I was thinking I'm good as I can lose that amount without hurting much, but writing this I'm realizing I should probably cancel my sell orders as if USDC crashes, they will get executed and I will be holding bags or a worthless coin.

not sure where your exchange is and not sure if you follow usa tax law, but if you are usa based there is zero reason to have usdc.  Just use USD

He's a frog leg eater.

I get 42% for those 2021 numbers, but then again I don't math much anymore.

47902 / 28775 = 1.66 -> 66%

Yep, very simple and easy.

How he got 42%, rofl! And even if you divide 28K by 2 u get 14K + 28K (there u got your 42K (42%???)). But u are still short 5902$ till 47902$.        ... Math should be mandatory on this forum!!!
Bring back April Fools quiz before posting, BUT WITH MATH !!!        .... And also do some integer floating points on a 3D matrix function!!! No one will post anymore.      

You would end up being the ONLY "genius" posting.

You would have the whole place to your lil selfie.

Go figure. Literally

Just had a let down. Bought my Bitcoin in 2013 on Bitstamp with full verification as German citizen living in Germany. Now that my bank account is almost emptied because I have no job and no income, I wanted to cash out 3-4K to have some cash for the next months. Bitstamp asked for proof of where I got my crypto from to be able to cash out. So I showed em the buy history on my Bitstamp account. Now they asking me where I got that money in 2013 to buy the Bitcoins. How the hell can I proof money I saved over a time span of 10 years. For example by selling your old 2nd hand stuff etc. Ridiculous. Gonna try Binance now.

Lookie uie pooie.

The guy who supposedly "never selling any" who always seems to be selling at or near the bottom of the market.

Kind of an unofficial mindrust.

hahahahaha

Regarding the KYC question.. just say whatever the fuck.. give them some kind of an accounting.. Currently $4k is about 0.25 BTC, so even if you bought those 0.25 BTC at the top of the market in 2013 (around $1k per BTC), that would be $250-ish.   Say that you mowed lawns or whatever.. it's not like you need a lot of money to have had bought what is now $4k worth of bitcoin..   

Now if you have 100 BTC in your bitstamp bitcoin account that you have not moved for 9 years, then yeah, potentially you would need to be able to say where you got $100k to buy those BTC if you bought them at the top of the market in 2013.. .. It does not seem to be very healthy to be waiting for the last minute to figure out if you are able to sell your bitcoin, and for several years, we already knew that exchanges have been performing shotgun KYC .. so surprising that you are just finding out about this..

It seems to me that the exchange just needs some kind of a plausible explanation that doe snot raise any red flags.... so if you tell them something illegal.. such as you had hacked silk road or MTGOX then that might be problematic.

[philipma1957]

Recently, I was thinking if the BTC ATH would have been higher without the COVID ?

I don't think I saw this argument on the WO discussion.

We can probably (easily) admit that we wouldn't have seen this crash below 4K$ in march 2020. But at the same time, we would have seen more than 69K$ at the top ?

FED, all central banks all around the world just printed printed brrrrrrrr without any limit or any plan and gave lot a fresh money for Wall Street and all investors to (over) speculate. This situation (at this level) didn't happen since decades.

I know some members here are not agree on it, but the fact is that BTC (or the crypto industry in general) is currently still fucking linked with the tech (nasdaq) movements (except for some specific issues and mess like with LUNA, Celsius, or FTX).

Without this free no limit money, probably the stocks and Nasdaq especially wouldn't go this high till end 2021 / before the war. And probably the same for BTC.

It's hard to say, but maybe this allows us to relativize a little bit.  Although most of us (myself included) thought that we would go higher than "only" x3.5 from 2017 ATH.

China ripped the rally to pieces in spring of 2021 that kicked out 30-60% of the hash.  But maybe they did it due to covid.

[philipma1957]

Hello guys. It's difficult to follow up on all the drama, even if I'm not involved in most of these sites/schemes/shitcoins.
I have some USDC, not much as I'm at the bottom of my buying ladder so mostly in BTC (for my trading stashes), do you think it's safe enough ?

I was thinking I'm good as I can lose that amount without hurting much, but writing this I'm realizing I should probably cancel my sell orders as if USDC crashes, they will get executed and I will be holding bags or a worthless coin.

not sure where your exchange is and not sure if you follow usa tax law, but if you are usa based there is zero reason to have usdc.  Just use USD

He's a frog leg eater.  Okay he's french a I like frog legs and escargot b I l like Jacques Pepin.

As for how to manage money in France I am pretty much clueless.

I get 42% for those 2021 numbers, but then again I don't math much anymore.

47902 / 28775 = 1.66 -> 66%

Yep, very simple and easy.

How he got 42%, rofl! And even if you divide 28K by 2 u get 14K + 28K (there u got your 42K (42%???)). But u are still short 5902$ till 47902$.        ... Math should be mandatory on this forum!!!
Bring back April Fools quiz before posting, BUT WITH MATH !!!        .... And also do some integer floating points on a 3D matrix function!!! No one will post anymore.      

You would end up being the ONLY "genius" posting.

You would have the whole place to your lil selfie.

Go figure. Literally

Just had a let down. Bought my Bitcoin in 2013 on Bitstamp with full verification as German citizen living in Germany. Now that my bank account is almost emptied because I have no job and no income, I wanted to cash out 3-4K to have some cash for the next months. Bitstamp asked for proof of where I got my crypto from to be able to cash out. So I showed em the buy history on my Bitstamp account. Now they asking me where I got that money in 2013 to buy the Bitcoins. How the hell can I proof money I saved over a time span of 10 years. For example by selling your old 2nd hand stuff etc. Ridiculous. Gonna try Binance now.

Lookie uie pooie.

The guy who supposedly "never selling any" who always seems to be selling at or near the bottom of the market.

Kind of an unofficial mindrust.

hahahahaha

Regarding the KYC question.. just say whatever the fuck.. give them some kind of an accounting.. Currently $4k is about 0.25 BTC, so even if you bought those 0.25 BTC at the top of the market in 2013 (around $1k per BTC), that would be $250-ish.   Say that you mowed lawns or whatever.. it's not like you need a lot of money to have had bought what is now $4k worth of bitcoin..   

Now if you have 100 BTC in your bitstamp bitcoin account that you have not moved for 9 years, then yeah, potentially you would need to be able to say where you got $100k to buy those BTC if you bought them at the top of the market in 2013.. .. It does not seem to be very healthy to be waiting for the last minute to figure out if you are able to sell your bitcoin, and for several years, we already knew that exchanges have been performing shotgun KYC .. so surprising that you are just finding out about this..

It seems to me that the exchange just needs some kind of a plausible explanation that doe snot raise any red flags.... so if you tell them something illegal.. such as you had hacked silk road or MTGOX then that might be problematic.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

CZ going nuts and almost got kicked in the balls.

At first he claimed Coinbase not holding enough bitcoins as claimed.


https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1595126765143617536

https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/1595126123439923200

I don't know if it is a kick in the balls that CZ decided to pull down his earlier tweet - because it is good that people are asking these kinds of solvency, liquidation and even verification questions.

When we were bouncing around at $18K I was telling myself that I think the next leg down will be the one to buy.  As we dip into the 15's I can't help but think this is the dip people have been waiting for.  There's still a ton of uncertainty and even more bad news on the horizon, but I think we've gone low enough in the short term (once this Genesis stuff is cleared up).  I think we're likely to start seeing a runup before the halving soon, with a small crash as we go into the halving and people cash out profits, followed by the start of the next bull run.  That's how it's gone in the past anyway.

yea, everyone pretty much knows the "drill" by now, but buying at the lows and selling closer to bumps can still result in 50% more btc in the end, albeit I definitely don't know how to do it.
I typically sell when I need money and buy when I have extra.

In this cycle, I have a more detailed game plan, though. We shall see how it goes.

I just sell when holiday or star resto
I’m almost out of coin

Ah Ha!!!!!!!

I knew it!!!!  


I should have sent my harassing catfood eating and cardboard box sleeping message to you (Dude), rather than having had erroneously sent it to the sweet and innocent (#nohomo) OOM.

I just sell when holiday or star resto
I’m almost out of coin

I hope you don't disappear if you turn into a no-coiner ore are you holding some for longterm WO moon shot festivities?

I would have hoped you could tell when I was speaking nonsense  

Could you send some kind of a pic (doesn't have to be a pee pic) in order to provide a clue about whether it is for reals or whether nonsense?

yeah me too, and I predict that it is gpoing to get harder and harder to convert your bitcoins to fiat, especially the early ones, that's why I have been selling all year and buying bitcoin cetificates instead. That way I get the money in to the system, and then I can use these "clean" money to buy "clean" bitcoin in the future. I am however saving 10% of my old stash just in case I need some old anonymous coins in the future.

Are you talking about swedish bitcoin ETN (Bitcoin tracker one)?
I bought some in Fidelity, not much, though.
I don't know about Sweden, but in Germany it could be done painlessly since btc cap gains over a year are not taxable.
In US, you would get hit with some tax (depending on exchanged value, could be as high as 23.4% of profits).

No, I'm talking about these four.

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/563966/bitcoin-xbt

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/599180/bitcoin-xbte

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1164452/valour-bitcoin-btc-zero-sek

https://www.avanza.se/borshandlade-produkter/certifikat-torg/om-certifikatet.html/1264363/track-bitcoin-ii-von

I have my money divided almost equal between the four, and I have them in a ISK, that's an account with very little tax.

https://thewahman.com/swedish-isk/#who-can-open-an-isk-investment-savings-account

In Sweden you pay 30% tax on the gain with a free sum of about 35000 SEK or thereabout if I remember correctly, regardless of how long you have had your coins.

Gollie Gee Whiz..

Even long term "supposed" bitcoiners afraid to hold their own cornz.. and instead buying corn vouchers.  

what a world!  What a world!


What could go wrong.. ?  Asking for a friend.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation