Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bad trader]

I'm pretty sure this was a bear raid or price pumpers dumping. No reason for a legitimate seller to suddenly dump when there are apparent large buys going on (on Bitstamp).

Whale sells a small amount at market to incite panic/hit stops, lemmings sell into his walls = instant long position at lower average price than he would have gotten buying higher up, where he risks slippage and aggressive selling into his buying. At the same time it gives a false impression as to the direction of the market.

Yes, that's pretty much what I meant by bear raid.

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[Fatman3001]

what is your opinion on grexit? is it going to happen? will they let us leave eurozone? and if so, will this affect the price of bitcoin?

Nobody wants a grexit, not even Syriza. But something has to give soon, if Greece gets IMF on their side it might be difficult for the creditor nations to resist some kind of debt relief, but what form and what size is impossible to know right now.

Grexit will happen because there are three outcomes and grexit is the not the worst case scenario for either side. Possibilities:
1)Greek bank run with no bail-out leading to collapse of economy and government
2) Writedowns/write offs of Greek debt leading several other countries to re-negotiate austerity terms and massive losses to sovereign debt-holders.
3)  Grexit.

It's going to happen. The only real question is "when?"

You are assuming that the EU or Greece will choose the less bad option. Ballsy!

A more likely reason why there can be a grexit is simply because everyone fucks up and are forced to accept a grexit that nobody wants. That would be politics european style!

[aztecminer]

what is your opinion on grexit? is it going to happen? will they let us leave eurozone? and if so, will this affect the price of bitcoin?

Nobody wants a grexit, not even Syriza. But something has to give soon, if Greece gets IMF on their side it might be difficult for the creditor nations to resist some kind of debt relief, but what form and what size is impossible to know right now.

Grexit will happen because there are three outcomes and grexit is the not the worst case scenario for either side. Possibilities:
1)Greek bank run with no bail-out leading to collapse of economy and government
2) Writedowns/write offs of Greek debt leading several other countries to re-negotiate austerity terms and massive losses to sovereign debt-holders.
3)  Grexit.

It's going to happen. The only real question is "when?"

the EU's new round of QE is a round of desperation. The problem seems to be that the greeks are publicly admitting they are bankrupt and they cannot pay their debt. If they continue the road they are on with austerities then the greek people will suffer for years and years and possibly even more years. If the greeks default then everyone holding their debt will lose. If the EU gives in to restructuring greek debt without austerities then other EU countries will want the same treatment. If the greek exit the EU then we will could start to see a stampede out of the EU by other countries facing the same problems. I think we are watching the start of the world economic crisis.

[billyjoeallen]

what is your opinion on grexit? is it going to happen? will they let us leave eurozone? and if so, will this affect the price of bitcoin?

Nobody wants a grexit, not even Syriza. But something has to give soon, if Greece gets IMF on their side it might be difficult for the creditor nations to resist some kind of debt relief, but what form and what size is impossible to know right now.

Grexit will happen because there are three outcomes and grexit is the not the worst case scenario for either side. Possibilities:
1)Greek bank run with no bail-out leading to collapse of economy and government
2) Writedowns/write offs of Greek debt leading several other countries to re-negotiate austerity terms and massive losses to sovereign debt-holders.
3)  Grexit.

It's going to happen. The only real question is "when?"

You are assuming that the EU or Greece will choose the less bad option. Ballsy!

A more likely reason why there can be a grexit is simply because everyone fucks up and are forced to accept a grexit that nobody wants. That would be politics european style!

The fuck-up is not knowing the difference between what you want and a realistic expectation. Greece is out. The disaster for the EU would be if Greece leaves and is better off as a result. Then you're going to see a great unraveling of your whole experiment. What you should want and hope happens is that Greece suffers mightily. It's the only way your other deadbeat countries will stay in line.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[octaft]

If, however there is a grexit, some might decide to move their money into Bitcoin just make sure that neither the greek government nor the EU can get control over them.

Knowing little about this topic and giving significantly less fucks than any of you discussing it, I must say it makes it hard to take your (the collective) opinions seriously when you all say shit like this (although I never take BJA seriously, to be honest). To an outside observer, the question becomes are you knowledgeable, or are you falling victim to confirmation bias/trusting only certain sources because this is what you WANT to happen because it benefits you.

BTW, IMO it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

[fonzie]

BTW, IMO it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

You must be new in here?

[Fatman3001]

what is your opinion on grexit? is it going to happen? will they let us leave eurozone? and if so, will this affect the price of bitcoin?

Nobody wants a grexit, not even Syriza. But something has to give soon, if Greece gets IMF on their side it might be difficult for the creditor nations to resist some kind of debt relief, but what form and what size is impossible to know right now.

Grexit will happen because there are three outcomes and grexit is the not the worst case scenario for either side. Possibilities:
1)Greek bank run with no bail-out leading to collapse of economy and government
2) Writedowns/write offs of Greek debt leading several other countries to re-negotiate austerity terms and massive losses to sovereign debt-holders.
3)  Grexit.

It's going to happen. The only real question is "when?"

the EU's new round of QE is a round of desperation. The problem seems to be that the greeks are publicly admitting they are bankrupt and they cannot pay their debt. If they continue the road they are on with austerities then the greek people will suffer for years and years and possibly even more years. If the greeks default then everyone holding their debt will lose. If the EU gives in to restructuring greek debt without austerities then other EU countries will want the same treatment. If the greek exit the EU then we will could start to see a stampede out of the EU by other countries facing the same problems. I think we are watching the start of the world economic crisis.

If they "restructure" the debt of especially Greece and Portugal to a point where the debts are realistically manageable, the EU might avoid a recession which would be far more costly than any concessions they can possibly make to those two countries.

However, to your last point: I fear so too. The German Juggernaut and their north european co-creditors are not ready to make sufficient concessions. They have been spending the last seven years showing their own population how tough and ruthless they can be to Greece instead of preparing them for a situation where concessions might be needed. That kind of irrational shortsightedness might have already sent us off the cliff.

[octaft]

BTW, IMO it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

You must be new in here?

Oh no, believe me I know, but I figure if I can stop even one person from following in the footsteps of that retard BJA, it was all worth it.

[billyjoeallen]

the EU's new round of QE is a round of desperation. The problem seems to be that the greeks are publicly admitting they are bankrupt and they cannot pay their debt. If they continue the road they are on with austerities then the greek people will suffer for years and years and possibly even more years. If the greeks default then everyone holding their debt will lose. If the EU gives in to restructuring greek debt without austerities then other EU countries will want the same treatment. If the greek exit the EU then we will could start to see a stampede out of the EU by other countries facing the same problems. I think we are watching the start of the world economic crisis.

Finally someone around here gets it. There is no way out. The Banksters who run the world have painted themselves into a corner.

[Wary]

@fatman. It makes no sense to talk about it anyway. I said it took me months to know what i know. I read in Every Direction. This is fucked. And i can assure You that giving the kiev leaders weapons will not soften that Problem.
Why are they the ukrainian leaders? Half of the country was not even allowed to vote

Nothing personal, but after months of reading you are further from the truth that you was before it. If you assume that you know absolutely nothing about EU, Germany, Greece, USA, Russia and Ukraine, you would be closer to the truth than you are now.

There are two prerequisites to reading about money/politics:
1. You have to assume that most of what you are reading is a lie. It can be the lie the author believes in himself, like it's with Marxism, Christianity or democracy, but it is lie nerveless.
2. You should be able to tell a lie from the truth. It's not that easy as it seems. You enemy are not outside only - your biggest enemy is your own desire to believe in what you want to be truth.

I can't tell about myself, but most of people lack these prerequisites and fall easy prey to all kinds of bastards, that feeding them with all kinds of lies, to get their money/support. I'm afraid, you are among their victims.

tl;dr; The books/articles you are reading are poisoned. Unless you are immune to poisons, just keep away from them!

I'm curious what books/articles you'd recommend, if there are any.

The key is not specific books, but being immune to poison. With the immuinity, you can read everything. Without it, no source is safe for you.
Most of people have no immunity. For them the best solution is MYOB. That's because the closer is an area to your daily activity and experience, the harder it is to mislead you about it. When it's about your weekly paycheck, everybody is expert. When it's about your country's budget, everybody is fooled.

Having said this, I can say what sources I've personally have found less poisoned:

-About religion: Atheistic writings.
-About economics: Microeconomics. Macroeconomics is poisoned.
-About politics: Libertarian writings.
-About EU: S.N.Parkinson and his laws.
-About Putin: Machiavelli.
-About Ukraine: http://www.stopfake.org/en/

[bitcoinvest]

what is your opinion on grexit? is it going to happen? will they let us leave eurozone? and if so, will this affect the price of bitcoin?

Nobody wants a grexit, not even Syriza. But something has to give soon, if Greece gets IMF on their side it might be difficult for the creditor nations to resist some kind of debt relief, but what form and what size is impossible to know right now.

Grexit will happen because there are three outcomes and grexit is the not the worst case scenario for either side. Possibilities:
1)Greek bank run with no bail-out leading to collapse of economy and government
2) Writedowns/write offs of Greek debt leading several other countries to re-negotiate austerity terms and massive losses to sovereign debt-holders.
3)  Grexit.

It's going to happen. The only real question is "when?"

the EU's new round of QE is a round of desperation. The problem seems to be that the greeks are publicly admitting they are bankrupt and they cannot pay their debt. If they continue the road they are on with austerities then the greek people will suffer for years and years and possibly even more years. If the greeks default then everyone holding their debt will lose. If the EU gives in to restructuring greek debt without austerities then other EU countries will want the same treatment. If the greek exit the EU then we will could start to see a stampede out of the EU by other countries facing the same problems. I think we are watching the start of the world economic crisis.

i am from Greece, and i can tell you that: it was wrong to enter euro zone back in 2000 because books have been cooked...stock market at that time if you remember went crazy and lot of people lost almost everything....after prime minister was saying in the news people play in the stockmarket...and after we entered the euro...this was a game they played and they played well...after that we had Olympic Games.. and after the US Crisis and today they named Greek Crisis and we all know it's not a crisis of Greece, after 5 years that they are "saving" us they putted us deeper into crisis and they continue... this will move to Italy, Spain and eventualy all over the Euro zone. You know we say here in Greece....if you hear bad things for your neighbour...wait yours soon.....

But even if we accept that WE MUST stay in euro zone and play this game.. do you know that German pays as we speak pensions for world crimes to a lot of people in Israel etc?? and this in not past like they said about the loans that have to pay back to Greece... So they want us to pay more debts that 5 years now are getting bigger and bigger but the strong German country can make wars? destroy people and hole nations and not pay anything back??

sorry for my English i am not a native speaker but i think you can all read it easily.

[billyjoeallen]

^^ Zorba's right. They lied to get in so now the Greeks must suffer or take all or Europe down with them.

it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

Either the Greeks suffer or all of Europe suffers. I prefer less suffering to more suffering so I don't see what's loathsome about that. You can quarantine the diseased or you can let the infection turn into a plague. If you don't have the stomach to make the tough choices then it's prolly good that you're in no position to do so.

[octaft]

I'm curious what books/articles you'd recommend, if there are any.

The key is not specific books, but being immune to poison. With the immuinity, you can read everything. Without it, no source is safe for you.
Most of people have no immunity. For them the best solution is MYOB. That's because the closer is an area to your daily activity and experience, the harder it is to mislead you about it. When it's about your weekly paycheck, everybody is expert. When it's about your country's budget, everybody is fooled.

Having said this, I can say what sources I've personally have found less poisoned:

-About religion: Atheistic writings.
-About economics: Microeconomy. Macroeconomy is poisoned.
-About politics: Libertarian writings.
-About EU: S.N.Parkinson and his laws.
-About Putin: Machiavelli.
-About Ukraine: http://www.stopfake.org/en/

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

[octaft]

it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

Either the Greeks suffer or all of Europe suffers. I prefer less suffering to more suffering so I don't see what's loathsome about that.

Oh spare me. Of all of you discussing it, I am confident you are the one who would give the least fucks about who suffers or how much as long as you think it will help you make a few extra bucks.

[Fatman3001]

If, however there is a grexit, some might decide to move their money into Bitcoin just make sure that neither the greek government nor the EU can get control over them.

Knowing little about this topic and giving significantly less fucks than any of you discussing it, I must say it makes it hard to take your (the collective) opinions seriously when you all say shit like this (although I never take BJA seriously, to be honest). To an outside observer, the question becomes are you knowledgeable, or are you falling victim to confirmation bias/trusting only certain sources because this is what you WANT to happen because it benefits you.

BTW, IMO it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

I never said I hoped for this to happen. I never said it would be a significant percentage of the population who would do it either. But it might be noticeable in the Bitcoin economy in the short run. If Greece and the EU figures things out in such a way that we can have real growth in Europe, Bitcoin, as well as everything and everyone else, would be much better off. To think that Bitcoin would somehow grow to infinity when the rest of the world crumbles around us is just a retarded right-wing anarchist fantasy.

[macsga]

it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

Either the Greeks suffer or all of Europe suffers. I prefer less suffering to more suffering so I don't see what's loathsome about that.

Oh spare me. Of all of you discussing it, I am confident you are the one who would give the least fucks about who suffers or how much as long as you think it will help you make a few extra bucks.

I LOL'd... 

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

Tears of hopium

[ParabellumLite]

what is your opinion on grexit? is it going to happen? will they let us leave eurozone? and if so, will this affect the price of bitcoin?

Nobody wants a grexit, not even Syriza. But something has to give soon, if Greece gets IMF on their side it might be difficult for the creditor nations to resist some kind of debt relief, but what form and what size is impossible to know right now.

Grexit will happen because there are three outcomes and grexit is the not the worst case scenario for either side. Possibilities:
1)Greek bank run with no bail-out leading to collapse of economy and government
2) Writedowns/write offs of Greek debt leading several other countries to re-negotiate austerity terms and massive losses to sovereign debt-holders.
3)  Grexit.

It's going to happen. The only real question is "when?"

You are assuming that the EU or Greece will choose the less bad option. Ballsy!

A more likely reason why there can be a grexit is simply because everyone fucks up and are forced to accept a grexit that nobody wants. That would be politics european style!

The fuck-up is not knowing the difference between what you want and a realistic expectation. Greece is out. The disaster for the EU would be if Greece leaves and is better off as a result. Then you're going to see a great unraveling of your whole experiment. What you should want and hope happens is that Greece suffers mightily. It's the only way your other deadbeat countries will stay in line.

As a European myself I have rather mixed feelings by your attempts of acting interesting towards everyone else here. Hate is one of those feelings, although I won't deny that a feeling of humor is present as well. It is really impressive to see how you constantly confuse the EMU with the EU and seem to have no idea of the latter its institutions, its goals or why it is there in the first place.

Not to mention the surety that only an ideological maniac can put forward: Greece is out. No doubt about it. You know it already. No idea how, but you know it.  After Greece is out, which is 100% certain to happen according to your crystal ball, the whole experiment (the EU I take it) would unravel. Granted, the diplomatic damage would be considerable, but there is no way in hell that Europe will throw away 60-ish years of cooperation because Greece can't keep its internal finances in check. The EU is much, much more than the single currency some of its countries are using nowadays, although I don't expect you to understand that shit.

Truth be told, the way you crusade against the EU - and the level of uninformedness - really comes close to the level of Fox News.

[Fatman3001]

Having said this, I can say what sources I've personally have found less poisoned:

-About Putin: Machiavelli.

LOL, true dat.