Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[smooth]

Vitalik just got finished describing SegWit as basically an ugly kludge of code. Doesn't he know about the transaction malleability? Mt. Gox? Kittens??

There is no need for that ugly kludge -- split transactions and blocks into two records -- to fix transaction malleability.  It would sufflice to skip the signatures when computing the transaction id.

Blockstream's reasons to want that kludge, ignoring all objections, are obscure.  It is not necessary or helpful for fixing malleability, and does not reduce bandwidth or storage costs.  On the contrary, there are alternative solutions to save bandwith from miners to clients that are simpler and more effective.

One possiblility is that they want the freedom to muck around with the signatures withot having to justify or explain to anyone, since they could claim that the "main" record contains the information that other ordinary wallets need, while the contents of the extension block neeed to be understood only by them.

Ot perhaps the LN will require some horrendoulsy complicated signatures; then SegWit would be a way to accomodate such  transactions without impacting the bandwidth or requiring an an increase in the block size limit.  Ans maybe also a way to keep the LN fees down: Pieter suggested that the fee rate (mBTC/kB) for the signature record would be a fraction of that of the main records, ostensibly to encourage use of the SegWit format.

So assuming there are no scaling advantages, what is the point exactly of separating signatures from transaction chains or whatever?

There is a modest scale advantage, but it is equivalent to a one-time increase in the block size (different numbers have been cited as for how much, depending on various assumptions). There is no scaling advantage, as it doesn't help with ongoing increases in bandwidth, storage, or anything else.

The benefits are:

1. Can introduce a new signature format.

2. Fixes malleability

3. New nodes don't need to download signatures below a checkpoint, since they aren't going to verify them anyway.

4. One time effective block-size increase.

All of these could also be achieved other ways.

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[1714851070]

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[JayJuanGee]

Vitalik Buterin, the developer and co-founder of crypto 2.0 platform Ethereum and co-founder of Bitcoin Magazine, has received the award at the WTN’s 2014 summit held at the Time & Life building in New York City and joins now the illustrious circle of recipients nominated by the World Technology Network each year. The event has been organized together with Fortune and Time. Besides, Buterin has been involved in multiple crypto projects over the years, including KryptoKit and Dark Wallet. Furthermore, this is not the first time the youthful developer has been rewarded for his efforts: in July this year Buterin benefitted a US$100,000 maintenance grant from Peter Thiel, PayPal co-founder and venture capitalist, which allow him to further progress in his start-up projects, including Ethereum. Multiple prominent industry leaders and companies have received World Technology Awards since the turn of the century, including the likes of Pinterest, Tesla, Skype, Apple, IBM, Amazon and other individuals and organizations that have made their mark in the world of technology. Vitalik Buterin was the only big name in the digital currency industry to win an award at this year’s WTN event.

well done m8 Smiley

hahahahaha


 


sure it is funny how the likes of Mr. Pumperitis ... likes to continuously pump alts in this bitcoin thread, including Ethereum...


and it is also funny how some big industries will also pump alts, to some extent, in order to create impressions of competition with bitcoin... when bitcoin remains the main game in town... and ethereum, if it becomes a contender, is years away from bitcoin... .. will be interesting to see if ethereum is still being pumped in a couple of years... and if it catches up to bitcoin in any ways.. including the computing power behind bitcoin.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

40MB in the pool. All the MB's in the pool!!!

Vitalik just got finished describing SegWit as basically an ugly kludge of code. Doesn't he know about the transaction malleability? Mt. Gox? Kittens??

There is no need for that ugly kludge -- split transactions and blocks into two records -- to fix transaction malleability.  It would sufflice to skip the signatures when computing the transaction id.

Blockstream's reasons to want that kludge, ignoring all objections, are obscure.  It is not necessary or helpful for fixing malleability, and does not reduce bandwidth or storage costs.  On the contrary, there are alternative solutions to save bandwith from miners to clients that are simpler and more effective.

One possiblility is that they want the freedom to muck around with the signatures withot having to justify or explain to anyone, since they could claim that the "main" record contains the information that other ordinary wallets need, while the contents of the extension block neeed to be understood only by them.

Ot perhaps the LN will require some horrendoulsy complicated signatures; then SegWit would be a way to accomodate such  transactions without impacting the bandwidth or requiring an an increase in the block size limit.  Ans maybe also a way to keep the LN fees down: Pieter suggested that the fee rate (mBTC/kB) for the signature record would be a fraction of that of the main records, ostensibly to encourage use of the SegWit format.

So assuming there are no scaling advantages, what is the point exactly of separating signatures from transaction chains or whatever?

There is a modest scale advantage, but it is equivalent to a one-time increase in the block size (different numbers have been cited as for how much, depending on various assumptions). There is no scaling advantage, as it doesn't help with ongoing increases in bandwidth, storage, or anything else.

The benefits are:

1. Can introduce a new signature format.

2. Fixes malleability

3. New nodes don't need to download signatures below a checkpoint, since they aren't going to verify them anyway.

4. One time effective block-size increase.

All of these could also be achieved other ways.

You seem slightly more optimistic than the professor. Thanks Dude.

In other news: this person has been mixing over and over and reconsolidating again over and over every so often for years.

[Richy_T]

Blockstream's reasons to want that kludge, ignoring all objections, are obscure.  

The simple answer is that they seek complexity because complexity takes time to implement and simply increasing the block size limit could have been done without much further ado.

You can argue motivation but the stonewalling of Gavin and others (people who should be regarded as influential people at least worthy of some attention) and then the stalling of the so-called scaling conferences and now this "We really have a way to fix this, just give us some more time" indicates to me that core just really do not want to scale Bitcoin.

Jorge, as a professor, I'm sure you see this kind of behavior in your students all the time, typically those who have a bit of maturing to do.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Mrpumperitis]

Vitalik Buterin, the developer and co-founder of crypto 2.0 platform Ethereum and co-founder of Bitcoin Magazine, has received the award at the WTN’s 2014 summit held at the Time & Life building in New York City and joins now the illustrious circle of recipients nominated by the World Technology Network each year. The event has been organized together with Fortune and Time. Besides, Buterin has been involved in multiple crypto projects over the years, including KryptoKit and Dark Wallet. Furthermore, this is not the first time the youthful developer has been rewarded for his efforts: in July this year Buterin benefitted a US$100,000 maintenance grant from Peter Thiel, PayPal co-founder and venture capitalist, which allow him to further progress in his start-up projects, including Ethereum. Multiple prominent industry leaders and companies have received World Technology Awards since the turn of the century, including the likes of Pinterest, Tesla, Skype, Apple, IBM, Amazon and other individuals and organizations that have made their mark in the world of technology. Vitalik Buterin was the only big name in the digital currency industry to win an award at this year’s WTN event.

well done m8 Smiley

hahahahaha


 


sure it is funny how the likes of Mr. Pumperitis ... likes to continuously pump alts in this bitcoin thread, including Ethereum...


and it is also funny how some big industries will also pump alts, to some extent, in order to create impressions of competition with bitcoin... when bitcoin remains the main game in town... and ethereum, if it becomes a contender, is years away from bitcoin... .. will be interesting to see if ethereum is still being pumped in a couple of years... and if it catches up to bitcoin in any ways.. including the computing power behind bitcoin.

http://www.wtn.net/summit-2014/2014-world-technology-awards-winners
dude this isnt a pump...its a realization...an awakening of the crypto masses, all of us have realized btc is not in capable hands anymore. Many smart traders saw this coming months ago(some even yrs ago), if btc fails what should we do...go to fiat or another coin??.
crypto isnt dying ,its evolving  
A coin that does not have the issues btc is having..and if it does have issues in the future "who would fix it"?  people trust VB more than any btc future dev , its that simple

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[peonminer]

[Mrpumperitis]

  https://blockchain.info/charts/output-volume  get ready 

[peonminer]

  https://blockchain.info/charts/output-volume  get ready  

[Mrpumperitis]

Currency Stats Bitcoin currency statistics
Blocks Mined    170
Time Between Blocks    8.47 (minutes)
Bitcoins Mined    4,250 BTC
Total Transaction Fees    38.06806048 BTC    
No. of Transactions    189094    
Total Output Volume    44,414,562.57721106 BTC    
Estimated Transaction Volume    169,724.07124416 BTC    
Estimated Transaction Volume (USD)    66,073,580.94 USD    
Market Summary
Market Price    $389.3 USD (weighted)    
Trade Volume    $2,005,774.95 USD
Trade Volume    5,152.26 BTC
Mining Cost
Total Miners Revenue    $1,669,318.4
% earned from transaction fees    0.89%
% of transaction volume    2.53 %    
Cost per Transaction    $8.83    
Hash Rate and Electricity Consumption
Difficulty    113,354,299,801.47
Hash Rate    957,928,377.16 GH/s    

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Richy_T]

[hodl_2015]

The peak in total output disappears if you exclude returned change. Someone is buying ice creams directly with a multi-million wallet:
https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume

[Mrpumperitis]

again incase some missed it.....
Currency Stats Bitcoin currency statistics
Blocks Mined    170
Time Between Blocks    8.47 (minutes)
Bitcoins Mined    4,250 BTC
Total Transaction Fees    38.06806048 BTC   
No. of Transactions    189094   
Total Output Volume    44,414,562.57721106 BTC   
Estimated Transaction Volume    169,724.07124416 BTC   
Estimated Transaction Volume (USD)    66,073,580.94 USD   
Market Summary
Market Price    $389.3 USD (weighted)   
Trade Volume    $2,005,774.95 USD
Trade Volume    5,152.26 BTC
Mining Cost
Total Miners Revenue    $1,669,318.4
% earned from transaction fees    0.89%
% of transaction volume    2.53 %   
Cost per Transaction    $8.83   
Hash Rate and Electricity Consumption
Difficulty    113,354,299,801.47
Hash Rate    957,928,377.16 GH/s   

[Mrpumperitis]

  https://blockchain.info/charts/output-volume  get ready 

[coinzat]

   https://blockchain.info/charts/output-volume  get ready  

what does this mean ? some whales moved their coins ?    

and Is this good for price or these big volume are dumping and we will see a new fall ?

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[rebuilder]

[blockchain. info total output chart]

The peak in total output disappears if you exclude returned change. Someone is buying ice creams directly with a multi-million wallet:
https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume

This. TX volume is relevant to speculation, total output not so much.