Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BitUsher]

Your conclusion might be a bit premature. Bitfury is about to roll out its latest chips. If P2Pool's share decreases, along with the smaller ones, Bitcoin Classic might have +80% by the end of February.

Now, if we could get a confirmation of the defection rumours all of this is moot of course.

Yet, we should indeed have a neutral stance on bitfury at the moment because with one breath they give a nod to classic , and another long article they attack all of the principles that support classic.

[Fatman3001]

Your conclusion might be a bit premature. Bitfury is about to roll out its latest chips. If P2Pool's share decreases, along with the smaller ones, Bitcoin Classic might have +80% by the end of February.

Now, if we could get a confirmation of the defection rumours all of this is moot of course.

Yet, we should indeed have a neutral stance on bitfury at the moment because with one breath they give a nod to classic , and another long article they attack all of the principles that support classic.

You can if you want to. One is a woolly defence of Bitcoin in general while the other is a firm announcement of support. Things can change due to other events, but atm I see no need to class them as "neutral". Then again, it doesn't matter how I view them, the proof is in the pudding.

[BitUsher]

You can if you want to. One is a woolly defence of Bitcoin in general while the other is a firm announcement of support. Things can change due to other events, but atm I see no need to class them as "neutral". Then again, it doesn't matter how I view them, the proof is in the pudding.

So, you Support all the principles he defined in the article? Why do I hear the exact opposite statements from BU/XT/Classic proponents? Please read his statements below and indicate to me if you agree or disagree with them.

https://medium.com/@BitFuryGroup/keep-calm-and-bitcoin-on-4f29d581276#.lsa4ml1p6

Bitcoin Is Not an Electronic Payments System Like PayPal
You simply need an additional system operating on top of the Bitcoin Blockchain (with the Blockchain acting as a settlement layer)

Do we hear XT/BU/Classic proponents stressing the importance for tx to be spent on payment channels or on the main chain? From what I hear the sentiment is high volume on the main chain to directly pay the miners instead of a settlement system like Bitfury and core propose.

As the Bitcoin network continues to evolve, transaction fees need to grow in order to maintain a high level of security within and for the network.As BitFury has outlined in our white paper on Bitcoin security incentives, the transaction fee market is currently actively developing....
Overlay networks, such as Lightning and sidechains, can successfully deal with this challenge while in-service ledgers already do.

Do we hear XT/BU/Classic proponents stressing the importance for tx fees be raised and a fee market being created? Notice how he stresses the cheap tx's will be on the sidechains and payment channels like LN , and not on the main chain like being proposed by XT/BU/Classic proponents .

Bitcoin Transaction Processing Is Not Presently Clogged

Do we here this clarification from XT/BU/Classic proponents, or from Core proponents?

As the Scaling Bitcoin conferences have shown, miners are generally in support of cautious increases of the block size limit — just not abrupt increases — because such sudden change could undermine the foundation of the Bitcoin network.

Could that Abrupt increase be referring to a hard fork?

Mass Rule is Not Appropriate for Bitcoin

The pipe dream of some in the Bitcoin community is to govern the system by having ordinary users vote for changes by adopting the corresponding full node software. This approach is not only impractical, it is also not desirable.

This directly refutes the Bitcoin Classic And Bitcoin Unlimited governance model.

[becoin]

Speaking of volatility... I am not sure what to make of this recent price action.

BTCC just like XT altcoin fork is dead and market is pricing that in.

You are so funny.

Big Blocktards laugh at everything. Even if I show them a finger.

[aztecminer]

if china has new coin that will change the landscape.. max kieser pumping bitcoin bigtime.. yeah better get to mining cuz china might be about take portion of hash power.. not sure if mining is worth it in usa just to fund the irs though .. may as well skip the mining and buy bitcoin at an exchange.

[Fatman3001]

@Bitusher What are you talking about? I want BIP101. But nobody gives a shit about what I think. Bitfury obviously wants a 2MB Block Size Cap without burning too many bridges. I guess a hard fork from 1MB to 2MB isn't considered "abrupt" by Valery.

[BitUsher]

@Bitusher What are you talking about? I want BIP101. But nobody gives a shit about what I think. Bitfury obviously wants a 2MB Block Size Cap without burning too many bridges.

Almost Everyone wants an effective 2MB block capacity. You aren't making any distinctions.

So You are you suggesting that Classic supports those statements from Bitfury?

Here is a hint-

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 07:11:29:i have misgivings about the vision of the fee market as a way to pay for mining, and i think that fee market + lightning would be terrible for earning fees as a miner

I guess a hard fork from 1MB to 2MB isn't considered "abrupt" by Valery.

What gives you that indication? A nod of support and a long article directly refuting most of Classic's principles?

P.S... yes, and Bitfury doesn't like XT or Bip 101 either.

[cbeast]

Bitcoin as global currency. Locally regulated and exchanged digital currencies will organically emerge. There's your scalability roadmap.

[CuntChocula]

<>

Mass Rule is Not Appropriate for Bitcoin

The pipe dream of some in the Bitcoin community is to govern the system by having ordinary users vote for changes by adopting the corresponding full node software. This approach is not only impractical, it is also not desirable.

This directly refutes the Bitcoin Classic And Bitcoin Unlimited governance model.

"Thus the Bitcoin dream turned belly up, turned green, bobbed to the scummy surface of cupidity unlimited, filled with gas, went bang in the noonday sun.”

http://s15.postimg.org/pzn6su0iz/nice0.gif

[Fatman3001]

@Bitusher What are you talking about? I want BIP101. But nobody gives a shit about what I think. Bitfury obviously wants a 2MB Block Size Cap without burning too many bridges.

Almost Everyone wants an effective 2MB block capacity. You aren't making any distinctions.

So You are you suggesting the Classic supports those statements from Bitfury?

Here is a hint-

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 07:11:29:i have misgivings about the vision of the fee market as a way to pay for mining, and i think that fee market + lightning would be terrible for earning fees as a miner

I guess a hard fork from 1MB to 2MB isn't considered "abrupt" by Valery.

What gives you that indication? A nod of support and a long article directly refuting most of Classic's principles?

? ? ?

Are you slow or something?

I am not the CEO of Bitfury.

Here: https://mobile.twitter.com/valeryvavilov/status/688054411650818048

Troll Valery instead.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin


Explanation

[BitUsher]

? ? ?

Are you slow or something?

I am not the CEO of Bitfury.

Here: https://mobile.twitter.com/valeryvavilov/status/688054411650818048

Troll Valery instead.

I am not trolling you or insinuating that you know his mind. This is the speculation forum where we discuss data and speculate upon it. I am asking for your opinion on why Bitfury gives a nod of support and than shortly after attacks most of the principles that support the implementation he gave a nod of support to.

Do you have an opinion on this or do you believe the list of statements I laid out don't fundamentally undercut XT/BU/Classics principles?  

Or is this merely an issue you prefer not to discuss because you rather not acknowledge it? If so, I will happily leave you alone and apologize for upsetting you.

[aztecminer]

Bitcoin as global currency. Locally regulated and exchanged digital currencies will organically emerge. There's your scalability roadmap.

i am not sure how ?? we are still arguing over scalability.. and the argument has become more complex with more versions of bitcoin.. looks more like a big giant clusterfuk .

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Bitfurys article strongly rejects XT principles. Not Classic.  XT != Classic.

Read it again, and the underlying tone is that they prefer development to be more open.

You must have skipped to the end of the article instead of reading the whole thing. Additionally , most of us want development to be more open. Stop creating false wedge issues where none exist ... we agree on this! Lets support Libbitcoinconsensus!

 https://medium.com/@BitFuryGroup/keep-calm-and-bitcoin-on-4f29d581276#.lsa4ml1p6


This directly refutes the Bitcoin Classic And Bitcoin Unlimited governance model.

Meh, not too sure. That Medium piece was written in the context of Hearns exit piece, so yes, I still think it was largely directed at that, and not specifically at Classic.
We could argue the interpretation of various pieces of that artical, but I would prefer to simply quote the man himself's view on Classic, as he posted on twitter:

https://twitter.com/valeryvavilov/status/688054411650818048?s=09

@BitFuryGroup - the largest private miner and security provider is ready to move forward and support 2MB increase with @Bitcoin Classic

That seems pretty unequivocal.

edit: posted before i saw you address it earlier. But point still stands - your view that the article denegrades Classic is only your interpretation of it. And condidering his explicit support for Classic, I'd say you could redress the dichotomy by simply saying that maybe the article was about XT and Hearn.

[cbeast]

Bitcoin as global currency. Locally regulated and exchanged digital currencies will organically emerge. There's your scalability roadmap.

i am not sure how ?? we are still arguing over scalability.. and the argument has become more complex with more versions of bitcoin.. looks more like a big giant clusterfuk .

You don't need to know how. That's how "organic" works. Bitcoin doesn't need to buy every coffee, nor does anyone really need to use it. The blocksize argument is only a short-term adoption solution. Altcoins are the obvious and most popular solution to adoption overall to date. Exchanges have always and will always take Bitcoin. It's just that simple.

[DieJohnny]

We are heading towards a hard fork and two coins. China BTC and everyone else on Classic.

Nobody is buying coins mined by two mining companies in China..... that only trade on chinese exchanges.... just saying...

Also, this is going to sound nuts but classic should road map a change to POW in 12 months. The future hard forks have to be much easier, more miners is the only way to make this happen.

[DieJohnny]

Bitcoin as global currency. Locally regulated and exchanged digital currencies will organically emerge. There's your scalability roadmap.

i am not sure how ?? we are still arguing over scalability.. and the argument has become more complex with more versions of bitcoin.. looks more like a big giant clusterfuk .

You don't need to know how. That's how "organic" works. Bitcoin doesn't need to buy every coffee, nor does anyone really need to use it. The blocksize argument is only a short-term adoption solution. Altcoins are the obvious and most popular solution to adoption overall to date. Exchanges have always and will always take Bitcoin. It's just that simple.

This is a single view that is frankly bizarre, only recently have statements like these become commonplace. Bitcoin was always going to record every transaction.

[cbeast]

Altcoins are the obvious and most popular solution to adoption overall to date.

Save us, BBQ Coin, you're our only hope!

There are thousands to choose from. Ask your local regulators which one you are required to register for.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Where are we at, are people just pretending Toomin-Coin is still happening?

As far as I can see (read) Chinese mining pools have rejected it & shown their support for Core?

Can we add Toomin-Coin to the list of failed take overs?

[cbeast]

Bitcoin as global currency. Locally regulated and exchanged digital currencies will organically emerge. There's your scalability roadmap.

i am not sure how ?? we are still arguing over scalability.. and the argument has become more complex with more versions of bitcoin.. looks more like a big giant clusterfuk .

You don't need to know how. That's how "organic" works. Bitcoin doesn't need to buy every coffee, nor does anyone really need to use it. The blocksize argument is only a short-term adoption solution. Altcoins are the obvious and most popular solution to adoption overall to date. Exchanges have always and will always take Bitcoin. It's just that simple.

This is a single view that is frankly bizarre, only recently have statements like these become commonplace. Bitcoin was always going to record every transaction.

If it's so bizarre, then why are all the banks developing blockchains and there are thousands of experimental coins? I have been saying this all along. Local currencies will be regulated with violence and the anarchists can't do anything about that.