Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

It is the [use cost] that need to be increased!

Said no successful business in a competitive market anywhere.

Longterm Bitcoin has to gather enough fees to survive, without fees no miners.

Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.

edit: the fees will longterm lead 1:1 to Bitcoins security. the higher the gathered fees the higher the security of the network.

Nobody will disagree with that. The question is if those fees will be paid by many tx, or just a few. If you limit the size of blocks to 1 MB (and hence, the number of tx to ~1700), the average fee/tx has to become very expensive (~$5 per tx).

With 1MB blocks Danny Hamilton estimates fees could reach as high as $100 a transaction.

[gentlemand]

With 1MB blocks Danny Hamilton estimates fees could reach as high as $100 a transaction.

Schweeet. The rest of Planet Earth will be beating down the blockchain's doors for the honour of one transaction. I can see them being given as wedding presents or instead of a dowry.

[AlexGR]

Nobody will disagree with that. The question is if those fees will be paid by many tx, or just a few. If you limit the size of blocks to 1 MB (and hence, the number of tx to ~1700), the average fee/tx has to become very expensive (~$5 per tx).

Size is already 1mb, "blocks are full", "mempool has a backlog of XX mb" and tx fees for 1st block inclusion are currently at 0.04USD.

https://bitcoinfees.21.co/

"The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 30 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 369 bytes, this results in a fee of 11,070 satoshis."

[ImI]

...
Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.
...

Depends on what you mean by "for free" :- There's Google...

you pay google by advertisement

maybe we can put some advertisements on every TXs 

"sponsored by Coca-Cola"

[CuntChocula]

It is the [use cost] that need to be increased!

Said no successful business in a competitive market anywhere.

Longterm Bitcoin has to gather enough fees to survive, without fees no miners.

Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.

edit: the fees will longterm lead 1:1 to Bitcoins security. the higher the gathered fees the higher the security of the network.

Nobody will disagree with that. The question is if those fees will be paid by many tx, or just a few. If you limit the size of blocks to 1 MB (and hence, the number of tx to ~1700), the average fee/tx has to become very expensive (~$5 per tx).

With 1MB blocks Danny Hamilton estimates fees could reach as high as $100 a transaction.

Not sure how that works. Tx cost is (BTC $Price) * (25 BTC per block) / (2.7tps * 60sec * ~10mins) = 10,000 / 1620 = $6.17 <==lowest cost possible, i.e. blocks are full.
What am I doing wrong?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

With 1MB blocks Danny Hamilton estimates fees could reach as high as $100 a transaction.

Schweeet. The rest of Planet Earth will be beating down the blockchain's doors for the honour of one transaction. I can see them being given as wedding presents or instead of a dowry.

Proclaim your love for her on the Blockchain. If you really love her?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Not sure how that works. Tx cost is (BTC $Price) * (25 BTC per block) / (2.7tps * 60sec * ~10mins) = 10,000 / 1620 = $6.17 <==lowest cost possible, i.e. blocks are full.
What am I doing wrong?

IDK. I'd have to find the sauce.

Don't MAKE me find the sauce.

[CuntChocula]

...
Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.
...

Depends on what you mean by "for free" :- There's Google...

you pay google by advertisement

maybe we can put some advertisements on every TXs 

"sponsored by Coca-Cola"

Google didn't start out by charging for searches, email, etc. Had zero ad revenues because zero ads.
I guess Google should have started out by charging for its services, would have been a multi-gazillion-dollar co. by now.

[Richy_T]

With 1MB blocks Danny Hamilton estimates fees could reach as high as $100 a transaction.

To be fair, there is a mechanism to keep those fees down as others have suggested.

The problem is, that mechanism is disinterest in using Bitcoin.

[AlexGR]

It is the [use cost] that need to be increased!

Said no successful business in a competitive market anywhere.

Longterm Bitcoin has to gather enough fees to survive, without fees no miners.

Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.

edit: the fees will longterm lead 1:1 to Bitcoins security. the higher the gathered fees the higher the security of the network.

Nobody will disagree with that. The question is if those fees will be paid by many tx, or just a few. If you limit the size of blocks to 1 MB (and hence, the number of tx to ~1700), the average fee/tx has to become very expensive (~$5 per tx).

With 1MB blocks Danny Hamilton estimates fees could reach as high as $100 a transaction.

Not sure how that works. Tx cost is (BTC $Price) * (25 BTC per block) / (2.7tps * 60sec * ~10mins) = 10,000 / 1620 = $6.17 <==lowest cost possible, i.e. blocks are full.
What am I doing wrong?

He's talking about fees.

[CuntChocula]

...
He's talking about fees.

Ah, gotcha, my bad. When > tx than can fit in a block, the fee becomes undefined. Meaning I'm simply gambling on my fee not getting pushed out by a higher one, blind auction style.

The actual cost per transaction, tho... On a positive note, if BTC price falls ~99%, we're back in reasonable territory

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^It'll be fun

[JayJuanGee]

We wont give our costumers what they need

Your customers need free money. No doubt about that.

...especially with other better and efficient services raising... this really seems like a smart move.

Yes, it is a smart move. Get rid of such customers! Let them go to and ruin the other 'efficient services'.
If it is the only type of customers you have then you don't offer value in your service and you should change your business!

Read my previous comment, you really fail to understand the issue here, it is not about free or cheap transactions (although this is how we always advertised bitcoin) but it is about Block size, 90% of transactions in the queue have a valid paid fees. but there is no space to include them.

However, If you want me to pay $1 fee for a $20 worth of goods/services then I am telling you that Bitcoin is for sure failing.

I don't know what the fuck you are doing back and hanging out here and spreading your additional FUD regarding the perils and death of bitcoin?

Didn't you cash out of your total bitcoins about a year and a half ago, and you were proclaiming the same bullshit and then wouldn't leave the forum in order to keep rubbing in about how right you were about bitcoin going to zero, etc...etc. etc....

Why don't you go off and enjoy your bitcoin free life?  What you need to be hanging around this thread and telling bitcoin investors that bitcoin is dying, when you really are just making things up for some seemingly malicious intermeddling purpose.

[Andre#]

It is the [use cost] that need to be increased!

Said no successful business in a competitive market anywhere.

Longterm Bitcoin has to gather enough fees to survive, without fees no miners.

Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.

edit: the fees will longterm lead 1:1 to Bitcoins security. the higher the gathered fees the higher the security of the network.

Nobody will disagree with that. The question is if those fees will be paid by many tx, or just a few. If you limit the size of blocks to 1 MB (and hence, the number of tx to ~1700), the average fee/tx has to become very expensive (~$5 per tx).

With 1MB blocks Danny Hamilton estimates fees could reach as high as $100 a transaction.

My $5/tx comes from providing the same revenue to miners as today, without the current block reward (the original calculation was based on a BTC price of $340). What will happen if demand totally outstrips the supply of blockspace, that can be anything.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[mmitech]

We wont give our costumers what they need

Your customers need free money. No doubt about that.

...especially with other better and efficient services raising... this really seems like a smart move.

Yes, it is a smart move. Get rid of such customers! Let them go to and ruin the other 'efficient services'.
If it is the only type of customers you have then you don't offer value in your service and you should change your business!

Read my previous comment, you really fail to understand the issue here, it is not about free or cheap transactions (although this is how we always advertised bitcoin) but it is about Block size, 90% of transactions in the queue have a valid paid fees. but there is no space to include them.

However, If you want me to pay $1 fee for a $20 worth of goods/services then I am telling you that Bitcoin is for sure failing.

I don't know what the fuck you are doing back and hanging out here and spreading your additional FUD regarding the perils and death of bitcoin?

Didn't you cash out of your total bitcoins about a year and a half ago, and you were proclaiming the same bullshit and then wouldn't leave the forum in order to keep rubbing in about how right you were about bitcoin going to zero, etc...etc. etc....

Why don't you go off and enjoy your bitcoin free life?  What you need to be hanging around this thread and telling bitcoin investors that bitcoin is dying, when you really are just making things up for some seemingly malicious intermeddling purpose.

I thought you were in my ignore list, I think it is time to revisit it... yea, but if you are curious: I am a developer and I develop services around crypto, besides, any developer can have an opinion about the Bitcoin block size issue...


BTW: it is not your problem how I do spend my precious time, instead of attacking my person you can argue my points (not that I think you understand a single thing about the technical side of Bitcoin)


Edit1: BTW, don't bother responding to this, you are already back to my ignore list, a troll with an inflated ego is what you are.

Edit2: I never left, I just stopped speculating, I had/have full hands with work on actual development.

[Yakamoto]

...
Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.
...

Depends on what you mean by "for free" :- There's Google...

you pay google by advertisement

maybe we can put some advertisements on every TXs 

"sponsored by Coca-Cola"

Google didn't start out by charging for searches, email, etc. Had zero ad revenues because zero ads.
I guess Google should have started out by charging for its services, would have been a multi-gazillion-dollar co. by now.

Part of why Google is so popular is because it did absolutely zero ads during their first startup, and this lead to everyone using it to recommend Google over other search engines, as there were barely any ads. And it's pretty much the same way now. The ads are very non-intrusive, and this is what is making them so much money.

I think Google migght only be the size of Bing or Yahoo if they started with ads, and there would most likely also be a more distributed market share.

[ImI]

...
Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.
...

Depends on what you mean by "for free" :- There's Google...

you pay google by advertisement

maybe we can put some advertisements on every TXs 

"sponsored by Coca-Cola"

Google didn't start out by charging for searches, email, etc. Had zero ad revenues because zero ads.
I guess Google should have started out by charging for its services, would have been a multi-gazillion-dollar co. by now.

Part of why Google is so popular is because it did absolutely zero ads during their first startup, and this lead to everyone using it to recommend Google over other search engines, as there were barely any ads. And it's pretty much the same way now. The ads are very non-intrusive, and this is what is making them so much money.

I think Google migght only be the size of Bing or Yahoo if they started with ads, and there would most likely also be a more distributed market share.

the important part is: is google free in terms of no revenue? answer is: no. google obv get revenue. no revenue = no service. as simple as that.

[CuntChocula]

...
Or in your business language: We can give away our product for free, said no successful business ever.
...

Depends on what you mean by "for free" :- There's Google...

you pay google by advertisement

maybe we can put some advertisements on every TXs  

"sponsored by Coca-Cola"

Google didn't start out by charging for searches, email, etc. Had zero ad revenues because zero ads.
I guess Google should have started out by charging for its services, would have been a multi-gazillion-dollar co. by now.

Part of why Google is so popular is because it did absolutely zero ads during their first startup, and this lead to everyone using it to recommend Google over other search engines, as there were barely any ads. And it's pretty much the same way now. The ads are very non-intrusive, and this is what is making them so much money.

I think Google migght only be the size of Bing or Yahoo if they started with ads, and there would most likely also be a more distributed market share.

the important part is: is google free in terms of no revenue? answer is: no. google obv get revenue. no revenue = no service. as simple as that.

The important part is had Google charged fees, or tried to monetize its services too early, it would have flopped.
That's why block rewards exist, think of those as VC cheddar, to let Bitcoin grow up before sending it out to earn its keep. And that's why capping blocksize is shortsighted at best.

[JayJuanGee]

We wont give our costumers what they need

Your customers need free money. No doubt about that.

...especially with other better and efficient services raising... this really seems like a smart move.

Yes, it is a smart move. Get rid of such customers! Let them go to and ruin the other 'efficient services'.
If it is the only type of customers you have then you don't offer value in your service and you should change your business!

Read my previous comment, you really fail to understand the issue here, it is not about free or cheap transactions (although this is how we always advertised bitcoin) but it is about Block size, 90% of transactions in the queue have a valid paid fees. but there is no space to include them.

However, If you want me to pay $1 fee for a $20 worth of goods/services then I am telling you that Bitcoin is for sure failing.

I don't know what the fuck you are doing back and hanging out here and spreading your additional FUD regarding the perils and death of bitcoin?

Didn't you cash out of your total bitcoins about a year and a half ago, and you were proclaiming the same bullshit and then wouldn't leave the forum in order to keep rubbing in about how right you were about bitcoin going to zero, etc...etc. etc....

Why don't you go off and enjoy your bitcoin free life?  What you need to be hanging around this thread and telling bitcoin investors that bitcoin is dying, when you really are just making things up for some seemingly malicious intermeddling purpose.

I thought you were in my ignore list, I think it is time to revisit it... yea, but if you are curious: I am a developer and I develop services around crypto, besides, any developer can have an opinion about the Bitcoin block size issue...


BTW: it is not your problem how I do spend my precious time, instead of attacking my person you can argue my points (not that I think you understand a single thing about the technical side of Bitcoin)


Edit1: BTW, don't bother responding to this, you are already back to my ignore list, a troll with an inflated ego is what you are.

Edit2: I never left, I just stopped speculating, I had/have full hands with work on actual development.

sounds like you are here to help to save us from ourselves... and so we will be experiencing more of your bullshit that selectively picks the facts you want to discuss all of the negative aspects of bitcoin... great... we have some additional trolling to look forward to...