Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fatman3001]

They can't kill bitcoin. Alts are already decreasing and bitcoin is coming back up. China is also buying again.

Ehem...

https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/

If you look at "Bitcoin Percentage of Total Market Capitalization" you'll see Bitcoin hit an all time low today of 66.64% of total crypto market cap.

In other words: Alts are increasing. Alarmingly so.

[K~Ehleyr]

I've held back from trying to discuss my concerns here because I know I'll only get accused of spreading FUD but, since I do have skin in the game too, I'm going to post anyway.

The way I see it, Bitcoin Core vs. Unlimited isn't the problem, the prospect of a hardfork isn't the problem.  The problem is the total inability for Bitcoin to reach any sort of consensus.  I think many of us now are past giving a fuck about how the blocksize issue is resolved.  Double the blocksize or halve it, implement some wizardry or tell the microtransactions to sod off and use alts instead, it really doesn't matter.  What matters is that it is resolved one way or another.  The lack of governance is the real problem, only compounded by the refusal of so many to even acknowledge that there is a problem at all.

As others have said here before me, what makes this crash so difficult to stomach isn't the falling price.  We've all seen bitcoin win all sorts of challenges before.  What makes this one so disturbing is that the threat is on the inside, bitcoin's lack of governance, lack of ability to say "this is a problem and this is how we're going to fix it" is actually tearing it apart from the inside.  I'd rather see bitcoin drop to $200 because of China or the US government than to $900 because of infighting.  At least then I'd have some confidence that it would come through, but Bitcoin can only win through if it's in good fighting form and right now it isn't.

At risk of incurring the wrath of the Bad Analogy Police, Bitcoin right now reminds me of Ellen Ripley.  She could fight off any predator and overcome any threat until the threat came from within her own body.  Then she was forced to destroy herself before it destroyed her.

Yes, she was resurrected stronger and cooler for the fourth movie but that took many years and many failed attempts, and even when they succeeded in bringing her back to life she was fundamentally different as a result of incorporating the alien DNA into her own 


tl;dr: we just need a solution, any solution, but that does mean first accepting that there's a problem in the first place.

[gentlemand]

I'd rather see bitcoin drop to $200 because of China or the US government than to $900 because of infighting.

Agreed, but a drop to sub $400 might be what's needed to get all these squealing ninnies to actually do something. They're only in the position to squeal because millions of users put them there. If said users abandon them en masse, and a falling price and rampant alts would be the signal, then just maybe there'll be some actual action before they have nothing left to squabble over.

Real people getting on board is what drives this train. I think there's a systemic amnesia amongst the people with influence regarding that who only rattle around their own echo chambers. One day they may peak out and see no one out there.

[notme]

-snip-
This is why I say I hope you people bought some physical, tangible items with your moon priced bitcoins, because everything about digital currency trading and price is so heinously fraudulent (as can be seen by 0.1 btc priced darkcoins), that it's all going to come collapsing down in a big way someday.  It's obviously not a store of value when nobody is even putting anything of value on the line in a lot of cases in the first place...leveraging illiquid assets...

Enough of your nonsense metals propaganda. The market of metals is one of the corruptest and overpriced markets out there. Neither gold nor silver are worth anywhere near what they're priced at right now (don't make me go into diamonds and other crap).

Did you even read the BIP before asking questions? This does not really need miners, especially not 95% as the BIP9 activation does. It sets a flag day. When this day is reached, anyone running this BIP (Bitfury is already testing it) is producing Segwit blocks and this is compatible with all >0.13.1 nodes.

What sort of timescale are you suggesting for this?

It is already defined in the BIP. October 2017. Anyone who has a client supporting Segwit already does not have to do anything.

It takes two to tango, doesn't it?

There is no tango here.

To the degree people are choosing alts over BTC, Ver & Jihan can hardly be held accountable. Core has dropped the ball. Can they pick it up? That would require a schism (another one) in Core. UASF is almost as divisive as BU. And without leadership...

This is bullshit. Nobody in their right fucking mind would attempt to use one of these scam coins. The only reason that people go in those is to gather more Bitcoin. That said, both Ver & Jihan are directly responsible for this, with their power-grab attempt. Core has done nothing wrong. They provided a very good (Segwit isn't perfect) scaling solution that would provide ~2.1 MB worth of TXs with adoption. In addition to that, they'd implement Schnorr post Segwit which would give the network even more capacity without requiring a HF.

-snip-
argh..just pump to 2k already and I'd not be worrying about frigging 2.25k of btc in my attic in $$$ towards ebay

My understanding is that, some price decline post ETF denial was to be expected and healthy. However, this is starting to become too much. People are *scared*, and this is directly due to the threats from Jihan to fork BTC into BTC & BTU (altcoin). If there was never a BTU, and Segwit activated in late December or early Q1 2017, we could have probably been at $2000 already (at least for a moment).

Anybody else remember when we tried to have rational discussions on these topics since over a year ago?  Too bad certain moderators kept deleting our conversations.  Without discussion, opinions polarized and now the situation has boiled over.

If you are mad Lauda, look in the mirror.

[kurious]

They can't kill bitcoin. Alts are already decreasing and bitcoin is coming back up. China is also buying again.

Ehem...

https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/

If you look at "Bitcoin Percentage of Total Market Capitalization" you'll see Bitcoin hit an all time low today of 66.64% of total crypto market cap.

In other words: Alts are increasing. Alarmingly so.

I clocked it at 66.3% yesterday, I think - but either way, it's less than two thirds.  Which IS significant.  It is an alts bubble, effectively - but it can only continue as long as BTC carries on looking like a beached whale waiting for the tide to come in.

[york780]

I've held back from trying to discuss my concerns here because I know I'll only get accused of spreading FUD but, since I do have skin in the game too, I'm going to post anyway.

The way I see it, Bitcoin Core vs. Unlimited isn't the problem, the prospect of a hardfork isn't the problem.  The problem is the total inability for Bitcoin to reach any sort of consensus.  I think many of us now are past giving a fuck about how the blocksize issue is resolved.  Double the blocksize or halve it, implement some wizardry or tell the microtransactions to sod off and use alts instead, it really doesn't matter.  What matters is that it is resolved one way or another.  The lack of governance is the real problem, only compounded by the refusal of so many to even acknowledge that there is a problem at all.

As others have said here before me, what makes this crash so difficult to stomach isn't the falling price.  We've all seen bitcoin win all sorts of challenges before.  What makes this one so disturbing is that the threat is on the inside, bitcoin's lack of governance, lack of ability to say "this is a problem and this is how we're going to fix it" is actually tearing it apart from the inside.  I'd rather see bitcoin drop to $200 because of China or the US government than to $900 because of infighting.  At least then I'd have some confidence that it would come through, but Bitcoin can only win through if it's in good fighting form and right now it isn't.

At risk of incurring the wrath of the Bad Analogy Police, Bitcoin right now reminds me of Ellen Ripley.  She could fight off any predator and overcome any threat until the threat came from within her own body.  Then she was forced to destroy herself before it destroyed her.

Yes, she was resurrected stronger and cooler for the fourth movie but that took many years and many failed attempts, and even when they succeeded in bringing her back to life she was fundamentally different as a result of incorporating the alien DNA into her own 


tl;dr: we just need a solution, any solution, but that does mean first accepting that there's a problem in the first place.

Never going to happen. Even if you and many other traders want to. Miners wont allow this so they would pump the price.

[becoin]

The way I see it, Bitcoin Core vs. Unlimited isn't the problem, the prospect of a hardfork isn't the problem.  The problem is the total inability for Bitcoin to reach any sort of consensus.

You are missing the big picture!

Every commercial entity is created for PROFIT! A miner that is profitable likes the status quo and will oppose every change (like segwit, LN, sidechains, etc.). In business there is a general rule - don't fix anything that isn't broken! For commercial entities an indication that something is broken is ONLY when profits start decreasing!

If you want change then make bitcoin mining less profitable! This can be achieved in two ways. Firstly by increasing competition but not only as number of mining pools and hash rate but mainly by increasing the number of ASIC manufacturers. If that is not done only other option is decreasing of bitcoin price. This is what we see at the moment. Bitcoin is balancing itself perfectly! The more miners oppose segwit the more price will go down until we reach a point when majority of miners will accept the inevitable!

[Fatman3001]

I've held back from trying to discuss my concerns here because I know I'll only get accused of spreading FUD but, since I do have skin in the game too, I'm going to post anyway.

The way I see it, Bitcoin Core vs. Unlimited isn't the problem, the prospect of a hardfork isn't the problem.  The problem is the total inability for Bitcoin to reach any sort of consensus.  I think many of us now are past giving a fuck about how the blocksize issue is resolved.  Double the blocksize or halve it, implement some wizardry or tell the microtransactions to sod off and use alts instead, it really doesn't matter.  What matters is that it is resolved one way or another.  The lack of governance is the real problem, only compounded by the refusal of so many to even acknowledge that there is a problem at all.

As others have said here before me, what makes this crash so difficult to stomach isn't the falling price.  We've all seen bitcoin win all sorts of challenges before.  What makes this one so disturbing is that the threat is on the inside, bitcoin's lack of governance, lack of ability to say "this is a problem and this is how we're going to fix it" is actually tearing it apart from the inside.  I'd rather see bitcoin drop to $200 because of China or the US government than to $900 because of infighting.  At least then I'd have some confidence that it would come through, but Bitcoin can only win through if it's in good fighting form and right now it isn't.

At risk of incurring the wrath of the Bad Analogy Police, Bitcoin right now reminds me of Ellen Ripley.  She could fight off any predator and overcome any threat until the threat came from within her own body.  Then she was forced to destroy herself before it destroyed her.

Yes, she was resurrected stronger and cooler for the fourth movie but that took many years and many failed attempts, and even when they succeeded in bringing her back to life she was fundamentally different as a result of incorporating the alien DNA into her own 


tl;dr: we just need a solution, any solution, but that does mean first accepting that there's a problem in the first place.

A Klingon with a remarkably apt Alien analogy to explain our current conundrum. A wave of euphoria and satisfaction shook through my body as I read it.

I bow down in awe at your greatness.

[JayJuanGee]

York I apologize for publicly criticizing you. Great calls, I must say. Hope you are right. The past week has been kind of stressful for us bitcoiners.

You must really be quite depressed by price going down? Can't you see that yorky is making two opposite calls every 10 minutes? This is the typical chaotic behavior of every noob. Yorky is just more vocal than average noobs.

Making opposite calls is also a purposeful tool of trolls to get attention to their attempts at spreading nonsense.


It can be very difficult to suss out whether Yorky is a troll or an innocent noob, and that is why some folks just block out newbie accounts as soon as they start to talk any kind of nonsense.   

I personally don't block out any accounts, but I understand the rationale to do so, especially when some of them can really be all over the place and really distracting from providing any kind of meaningful  bitcoin related information.

How about a trader that raised his BTC with 40% in 4 months? You can hate me or you can triumpf with me. Your choice. I know that i am not always right, but most of the time i am. You just dont have the balls to do something else than holding and never trading. My ROI will be much higher than yours. Losers look and judge winners. Winners keep winning and trying to help other folks. SSDD.

This is not a competition of winners and losers (or at least it shouldn't be).  Ultimately, each of us should attempt to find an investment strategy that works for him/her whether that is buying and holding, trading, shorting refraining, diversifying into alts or metals or some other personally tailored strategy. 

So, if feel better categorizing folks as winners and losers, then that is on you... 

[Cassius]

I've held back from trying to discuss my concerns here because I know I'll only get accused of spreading FUD but, since I do have skin in the game too, I'm going to post anyway.

The way I see it, Bitcoin Core vs. Unlimited isn't the problem, the prospect of a hardfork isn't the problem.  The problem is the total inability for Bitcoin to reach any sort of consensus.  I think many of us now are past giving a fuck about how the blocksize issue is resolved.  Double the blocksize or halve it, implement some wizardry or tell the microtransactions to sod off and use alts instead, it really doesn't matter.  What matters is that it is resolved one way or another.  The lack of governance is the real problem, only compounded by the refusal of so many to even acknowledge that there is a problem at all.

As others have said here before me, what makes this crash so difficult to stomach isn't the falling price.  We've all seen bitcoin win all sorts of challenges before.  What makes this one so disturbing is that the threat is on the inside, bitcoin's lack of governance, lack of ability to say "this is a problem and this is how we're going to fix it" is actually tearing it apart from the inside.  I'd rather see bitcoin drop to $200 because of China or the US government than to $900 because of infighting.  At least then I'd have some confidence that it would come through, but Bitcoin can only win through if it's in good fighting form and right now it isn't.

At risk of incurring the wrath of the Bad Analogy Police, Bitcoin right now reminds me of Ellen Ripley.  She could fight off any predator and overcome any threat until the threat came from within her own body.  Then she was forced to destroy herself before it destroyed her.

Yes, she was resurrected stronger and cooler for the fourth movie but that took many years and many failed attempts, and even when they succeeded in bringing her back to life she was fundamentally different as a result of incorporating the alien DNA into her own 


tl;dr: we just need a solution, any solution, but that does mean first accepting that there's a problem in the first place.

I get what you're saying and it's a good analogy up to a point, but seriously, some things should be allowed to die. 4th Aliens movie is like the 3rd Mad Max. No need to bring that stuff up.

[york780]

York I apologize for publicly criticizing you. Great calls, I must say. Hope you are right. The past week has been kind of stressful for us bitcoiners.

You must really be quite depressed by price going down? Can't you see that yorky is making two opposite calls every 10 minutes? This is the typical chaotic behavior of every noob. Yorky is just more vocal than average noobs.

Making opposite calls is also a purposeful tool of trolls to get attention to their attempts at spreading nonsense.


It can be very difficult to suss out whether Yorky is a troll or an innocent noob, and that is why some folks just block out newbie accounts as soon as they start to talk any kind of nonsense.   

I personally don't block out any accounts, but I understand the rationale to do so, especially when some of them can really be all over the place and really distracting from providing any kind of meaningful  bitcoin related information.

How about a trader that raised his BTC with 40% in 4 months? You can hate me or you can triumpf with me. Your choice. I know that i am not always right, but most of the time i am. You just dont have the balls to do something else than holding and never trading. My ROI will be much higher than yours. Losers look and judge winners. Winners keep winning and trying to help other folks. SSDD.

This is not a competition of winners and losers (or at least it shouldn't be).  Ultimately, each of us should attempt to find an investment strategy that works for him/her whether that is buying and holding, trading, shorting refraining, diversifying into alts or metals or some other personally tailored strategy. 

So, if feel better categorizing folks as winners and losers, then that is on you... 

Thats not the point for this matter. Calling me a troll when you are not objective at all and talking on this forum to fulfill your own greed. Thats what this is about. And now Becoin is buthurt because the price is going down and he want to flame on other bitcoiners that were expecting this. Fine.

[K~Ehleyr]

I get what you're saying and it's a good analogy up to a point, but seriously, some things should be allowed to die. 4th Aliens movie is like the 3rd Mad Max. No need to bring that stuff up.

Come on, that basketball scene more than redeems the rest of the movie 

[Searing]

Well, word is that various exchanges, miners and developers will be meeting in May to discuss the path forward. I know the previous summit on block size did not pan out but just the word of SOMETHING breaking the logjam with an ASAP reversal of 51% attack threats would allow consensus to form a little more while the community can chill out and stabilize this market.

I thought I read bitcoin core is not coming. Likely wrong but can't find the frigging link. Anyone?

[gentlemand]

I thought I read bitcoin core is not coming. Likely wrong but can't find the frigging link. Anyone?

http://www.coindesk.com/major-bitcoin-scaling-meeting-take-place-may/

That's the one. Perhaps a few fingers will be pulled out of arses between now and then.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I didn't mean centralised control, I just think the debate level is entrenched and hostile - all I see is is purile bickering.  What mechanism we can have for decisions is difficult to envisage.  Surely the default is the Core team - I have a feeling they could have done things better,or we wouldn't be here.  I don't think too many people disagree we have scaling issues, so starting from there, how did we get to this shitstorm?

In a community as large as that of bitcoin, there will always be many different opinions.  I think the constant bickering is a consequence of the fact that there is no mechanism of conflict resolution.

As for the default being Core: I certainly don't want to cast aside the value of the technical expertise of the devs.  That's an issue I have with 1 BTC = 1 vote (or rather 1 Satoshi = 1 vote).  However, putting all decision power in the hands of the devs is giving them an enormous amount of responsibility and power.  And while I think they have thus far been acting in good faith and for the benefit of bitcoin, I think much of the current conflict is because a significant part of the community has an issue with the amount of decision power a relatively small group of people have.

[criptix]

Cheap coinz eh.

Becoin must own trillions of bitcoins by now 

[york780]

Cheap coinz eh.

Becoin must own trillions of bitcoins by now 

Nah because he only hodl.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

The problem is the total inability for Bitcoin to reach any sort of consensus.
What matters is that it is resolved one way or another.  The lack of governance is the real problem, only compounded by the refusal of so many to even acknowledge that there is a problem at all.

As others have said here before me, what makes this crash so difficult to stomach isn't the falling price.  We've all seen bitcoin win all sorts of challenges before.  What makes this one so disturbing is that the threat is on the inside, bitcoin's lack of governance, lack of ability to say "this is a problem and this is how we're going to fix it" is actually tearing it apart from the inside.  I'd rather see bitcoin drop to $200 because of China or the US government than to $900 because of infighting.  At least then I'd have some confidence that it would come through, but Bitcoin can only win through if it's in good fighting form and right now it isn't.

Exactly. By the way, I also find it disturbing that some people claim everything is peachy.  Cognitive dissonance much?

[savetherainforest]

Cheap coinz eh.

Becoin must own trillions of bitcoins by now 

He can probably buy all the ladies on this forum and make a harem...

[HanvanBitcoin]

Up up up we go again people! fasten your seatbelts!