Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Torque]

Bitcoin trading on FoxBit (Brazilian exchange):

LAST PURCHASE: R$7151.77 ($2110.41 USD)
HIGH: R$7350 ($2168.91 USD)
LOW: R$6570 ($1938.74 USD)

[bitserve]

This year could become remembered as the Great Fee Bubble of 2017.

With the number of unconfirmed rising rapidly now, and fees up above $1 and rising, a lot of Bitcoin could become locked out circulation, artificially shorting its supply. Even for those who wait hours and days for their transaction to go through - having the option to panic sell Bitcoin right now, without risking holding coin on an exchange for extended period of time, isn't really possible. This reduces selling pressure. The bubble would peak shortly after a scaling solution is reached (I think one will be - too much has been invested in Bitcoin to let another coin take to the top spot).

YOu are wrong in your assesment. In worst case, current fee market might DELAY some of txs intended to be sold on the market, BUT:

1) ANyone with a significant amount of Bitcoins should know better to use the right fee so that their BTC arrives in time.
2) Even if the sellers are somewhat stupid, their BTC will eventually arrive at the exchanges to be sold.
3) I have been hearing this argument since some time now. All that delayed tx's should have arrived by now. Where is the big selling?
...

Bitcoin needs to scale, and yes, it might be holding the price down instead of rising incontrollably.... But I don't think that is so bad in the medium/long term.

Trying to justify that current price would be LOWER if it were not because of the high fees is absurd. The oppossite is probably correct.

[rjclarke2000]

F**k sake stamp......time for 1900. 1700-1870 region is not exciting now.

Stop being stubborn

[gembitz]

Bitcoin trading on FoxBit (Brazilian exchange):

LAST PURCHASE: R$7151.77 ($2110.41 USD)
HIGH: R$7350 ($2168.91 USD)
LOW: R$6570 ($1938.74 USD)

^Brazil stock market rekt ~ ALL INTO BITCOIN!! weeee $4000 closeeee..tbc

[bitserve]

This year could become remembered as the Great Fee Bubble of 2017.

With the number of unconfirmed rising rapidly now, and fees up above $1 and rising, a lot of Bitcoin could become locked out circulation, artificially shorting its supply. Even for those who wait hours and days for their transaction to go through - having the option to panic sell Bitcoin right now, without risking holding coin on an exchange for extended period of time, isn't really possible. This reduces selling pressure. The bubble would peak shortly after a scaling solution is reached (I think one will be - too much has been invested in Bitcoin to let another coin take to the top spot).

do you really believe this nonsense?

That is a decent theory.

While the spam attack is taking place, and the mempool is backed up, it becomes easier to move dollars around rather than bitcoins... so you have however many coins that you have on the exchanges, and they run out.

Are you seriosly saying that if you, for example, try now to move 5BTC to an exchange and, being in a great hurry, add a fee of, lets say 5$, your tx won't be processed timely?

I don't even think you need $5, probably much more less (edited typo), but what the heck, try that to prove your point. (Also don't use a long list of inputs and neither unconfirmed ones, that'd be cheating).

[tk3609]

Pulled out my bitcoin app and it was defaulted to Kraken. I noticed the price high was $2589. Some crazy anomoly from the looks of it.

Looks like shorts had no coverage

[bitserve]

Pulled out my bitcoin app and it was defaulted to Kraken. I noticed the price high was $2589. Some crazy anomoly from the looks of it.

You sure that's the USD price and not CAD?

Current CAD prices at Bitcoinaverage are $2539 global and $2648 CAD index. I always quote global prices.

It was a fat finger 1000 BTC buy. Why anyone would use USD on Kraken is beyond me. It's a very creaky set up over there and as that price demonstrates rather thin.

I have sometimes used USD on kraken for leaving crazy bid and asks just in case that sort of slippage happens due to the thin order book. Not doing it anymore, but I guess I should get back to it.

[Dabs]

OMG!

I just sent $18,195.29 and it cost me $11.13 in transaction fees.

well... that's what you gotta pay I guess. Still, 0.06% ? (unless i missed a point) is cheap.

[JayJuanGee]

This year could become remembered as the Great Fee Bubble of 2017.

With the number of unconfirmed rising rapidly now, and fees up above $1 and rising, a lot of Bitcoin could become locked out circulation, artificially shorting its supply. Even for those who wait hours and days for their transaction to go through - having the option to panic sell Bitcoin right now, without risking holding coin on an exchange for extended period of time, isn't really possible. This reduces selling pressure. The bubble would peak shortly after a scaling solution is reached (I think one will be - too much has been invested in Bitcoin to let another coin take to the top spot).

do you really believe this nonsense?

That is a decent theory.

While the spam attack is taking place, and the mempool is backed up, it becomes easier to move dollars around rather than bitcoins... so you have however many coins that you have on the exchanges, and they run out.

Are you seriosly saying that if you, for example, try now to move 5BTC to an exchange and, being in a great hurry, add a fee of, lets say 5$, your tx won't be processed timely?

I don't even think you need $5, probably much more less (edited typo), but what the heck, try that to prove your point. (Also don't use a long list of inputs and neither unconfirmed ones, that'd be cheating).

Probably there are some folks doing these kinds of experiments.

I have done it in the past, and I really am not in the mood to send transactions to experiment.

Sure, it could be true that a $5 fee would cause a large number of transactions to go through, but most of the time, people are going to follow the recommendation of their wallet or they may not be able to change the fee in some circumstances... sometimes, also, if they can adjust the fee downwards they will, too.

Sure the more experienced traders and the whales will increase their fees to ensure more rapid transactions, but others are going to decide not to send their transactions because they will see the back up or they will not realize whether increasing the fee will help.

You cannot make blanket assumptions regarding what people are doing, and it is not only whales who control the price and the dumps, and sometimes smaller players will change their minds about dumping if they see that the price keeps going up.

Anyhow, in the end, it is not so clear that the mempool back up causes a negative effect on price as you want to suggest, and whether it causes a positive effect is another possibility that you cannot rule out without looking at evidence and a broader level of behavior, if that can be found and measured.

[JayJuanGee]

OMG!

I just sent $18,195.29 and it cost me $11.13 in transaction fees.

well... that's what you gotta pay I guess. Still, 0.06% ? (unless i missed a point) is cheap.

Did you have the option to change the fees?  What wallet were you using?  And, did it go through?  If so, how long did it take?

[steelboy]

I made a couple of average size transactions recently when the tx list was over 100k. One went through without any delay and one took a little longer. Nothing that I was bothered about at all.

I suppose if you are moving money with the intention of trying to buy a dip or sell a top then it could be frustrating but then I also suppose you should have money ready for that case.

[bitserve]

OMG!

I just sent $18,195.29 and it cost me $11.13 in transaction fees.

well... that's what you gotta pay I guess. Still, 0.06% ? (unless i missed a point) is cheap.

How many inputs did your tx have? How long did it take to be confirmed?

[podyx]

Regarding TX fees, is it really such a huge problem? It's barely used as a currency as of now.

There are scaling solutions obviously so in the future, it's not a worry.

[Ibian]

Regarding TX fees, is it really such a huge problem? It's barely used as a currency as of now.

There are scaling solutions obviously so in the future, it's not a worry.

Why do we want to cause problems for ourselves now?

[bitserve]

Pulled out my bitcoin app and it was defaulted to Kraken. I noticed the price high was $2589. Some crazy anomoly from the looks of it.

You sure that's the USD price and not CAD?

Current CAD prices at Bitcoinaverage are $2539 global and $2648 CAD index. I always quote global prices.

It was a fat finger 1000 BTC buy. Why anyone would use USD on Kraken is beyond me. It's a very creaky set up over there and as that price demonstrates rather thin.

I have sometimes used USD on kraken for leaving crazy bid and asks just in case that sort of slippage happens due to the thin order book. Not doing it anymore, but I guess I should get back to it.

Ok, I have now put some BTC for sale at $2390. If whoever did it want to repeat that stunt and sell up to $2539 again, I am ready now

I will inmediately rebuy at the EUR order book if that happens.

[spooderman]

1945 on finex.

the war is over boys! (the second world war that is).

[Meuh6879]

Waiting the friday PURGE ...

[nanobtc]

It's awfully quiet in here.

[PoolMinor]

OMG!

I just sent $18,195.29 and it cost me $11.13 in transaction fees.

well... that's what you gotta pay I guess. Still, 0.06% ? (unless i missed a point) is cheap.

Bitcoin Stats
Summary of bitcoin statistics for the previous 24 hour period.

MINING COST

Total Miners Revenue (USD)            $3,988,421.96   
% Earned From Transaction Fees              18.16%    Yeah this isn't high at all! One day it will be 100%
% Of Transaction Volume                      0.59%   
Cost per Transaction (USD)                      $14.15   

https://blockchain.info/stats

[JayJuanGee]

Regarding TX fees, is it really such a huge problem? It's barely used as a currency as of now.

There are scaling solutions obviously so in the future, it's not a worry.

I don't think we should completely poo poo transaction fees (or transaction times) - however, part of the problem of these various big blocker whiners who are constantly complaining about bitcoin being broken is that they are trying to ascribe some kinds of micropayment expectations to bitcoin and to suggest that bitcoin is broken if it cannot achieve these kinds of use cases in an expedited way and to compete with credit card companies, etc. 

The claims of these various big blocker nutjobs are a bit ridiculous because they constantly whine and exaggerate these kinds of matters to suggest that bitcoin is broken, defective deficient and maybe want to pump some stupid-ass alt coin while failing and refusing to recognize bitcoin for its variety of current and amazing values and the likelihood that a lot of these kinds of future use case propositions regarding bitcoin to be worked out in the coming years and seeming that some of these will be more practical as second layer solutions.. and we are seeing these kinds of second layer solutions to be developed and evolve and likely not going to take away from the various value propositions that bitcoin already currently has as a secure decentralized and immutable way to store and transmit value that is beyond what the world has ever seen before. 

So, yeah, we have some growing pains in regards to fees and in regards to transaction times, but these are not likely taking away from bitcoin's various fundamental values that currently also seem to be recognized by the market with the ongoing and persistent upward price pressures.