Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Elwar]

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

btc decentralises nation states - what is for example the USG without the US$? and what is the USA without the USG? Angry people with guns.
and boats. any ship or island when that shtf will be a sitting target for pirates.

Pirates sound scary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxK7o74-kY

Could even make a sport out of them...target practice.

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[rjclarke2000]

Where is correction?

Maybe now? Who knows.

[savetherainforest]

Where is correction?

Maybe now? Who knows.

It doesn't seem powerful enough to bother...

[ErisDiscordia]

Long explanation of seasteding

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

I see, that makes the whole thing much clearer, thank you for taking the time to type that! It's a great concept and I'll be happy to support it when and if I can.

I'd be interested to find out more about the logistics of such a thing - are there plans to grow food and produce energy within the seasteads?

[Dakustaking76]

Can someone answer Why then price is getting So Fast down And up the whole time?
Were not in a correction mode i geus...

[Last of the V8s]

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

btc decentralises nation states - what is for example the USG without the US$? and what is the USA without the USG? Angry people with guns.
and boats. any ship or island when that shtf will be a sitting target for pirates.

Pirates sound scary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxK7o74-kY

Could even make a sport out of them...target practice.

lol well yes they weren't much of a match. point is pirates will seize bigger gvt assets

[Searing]

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

btc decentralises nation states - what is for example the USG without the US$? and what is the USA without the USG? Angry people with guns.
and boats. any ship or island when that shtf will be a sitting target for pirates.

Pirates sound scary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxK7o74-kY

Could even make a sport out of them...target practice.

lol well yes they weren't much of a match. point is pirates will seize bigger gvt assets

lol how old money and banks see bitcoin... a sub they can't track and can't control ..that can nuke their ass.....lol

[bitserve]

Can someone answer Why then price is getting So Fast down And up the whole time?
Were not in a correction mode i geus...

So fast up and down?

Are you thinking in terms of percentage or absolute numbers?

Because it is percentage what counts.

When/IF Bitcoin is at $50.000 we will probably see swings of $1000-$5000 a day as if it wasn't any big deal. That's a 2-10% a day. Which is not that rare in stocks market btw (not the index, individual stocks).

[Elwar]

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

btc decentralises nation states - what is for example the USG without the US$? and what is the USA without the USG? Angry people with guns.
and boats. any ship or island when that shtf will be a sitting target for pirates.

Pirates sound scary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxK7o74-kY

Could even make a sport out of them...target practice.

lol well yes they weren't much of a match. point is pirates will seize bigger gvt assets

So you're basically saying that seasteads will be such a great thing that people will be clamoring to get to one.

Reminds me of the early days of Bitcoin when the Keynesians were saying that nobody will ever buy bitcoins because the value will keep rising.

[JayJuanGee]

We'll see the bull keep going until later next week and then likely a major dump. However, we'll see 5 digits by Feb 2018 w/ a major breakout coming in 2019. That's right I said it.

That is the question. I have 100 btc and nothing in anymore but time/hobby/labor....I mined my way into the 100 btc being all profit...thus how the hell can I even think
about selling....triumph or tulips at this point in time for me.

But the question is again how high will it go....if it goes to say 6k drops to 3k and recovers....slowly say 4-5 months of sideways..then repeats

I expect a 'staircase' kind of climb...right now it looks like a high speed escalator at WTH speed

but anyway ...there will be a correction dump or whatever you want to call it...but damn from how high to how far a correction will it be

and IF it is all about adoption..it may NOT stop rising for a few months yet depending on demand

anyway the pucker factor to sell will be immense when if it hits 5,000 usd btc imho.....shit got real


But again...say it dumps back to 2k ....well hell it was $450 usd last July 2016 or so right? ......the real question is does btc and crypto have legs to NOT

drop below 2k anymore etc etc.....if so that means it must be a combo of 'adoption' and 'holding' of a pretty substantial scale imho...more so if it pumps to 5k eventually

anyway, out of my hands ..just have to ride this sled down the hill ....exciting times

A case could be made for me selling out now..but I'd feel ok at 1k btc again vs 5k btc if I jumped out now....such is the bet..such are folks choices

It's not all or nothing, Searing.  Intuitively, you seem to know that, even though you are spouting out about selling just in case prices go to $1k... hahahaha 

I have seen before that you seem to like this number 100BTC and you seem to want to maintain your holdings at that, even when you sell some you want to get them back, and there is nothing wrong with that - except you seem a little bit nervous about holding that much and how much actual dollars it represents (and of course profits), and in that regard, maybe you should take some profits.  Maybe, you could take 5 BTC off the table or or 10btc or a greater amount or a smaller amount.  You do not have to bet the whole lot.

Even taking 1 BTC off the lot for every $200 rise, would still leave you with nearly 90BTC if we were to reach $5k, but sounds to me that you would like to take a bit more off the table, even though you like that 100BTC number.

Go on, tweak the number in order that you feel more comfortable and plan for the rise.  At least make an outline of a plan that is comfortable for you and that you can live with either way.

I'm at about 91% BTC in my BTC investment fund, and I am pretty comfortable with that at these prices - however, if prices shoot up to $5k, I will probably be around 85% - but that still can leave me in a kind of quandary about whether I believe my cash is working hard enough.  Yeah, of course, if the price drops, you wish that you would have sold more and if the price goes up, you wished you would not have sold so much.  You are never going to get around that dilemma, so you gotta just embrace whatever plan you make and just tweak it on the edges, rather than taking drastic steps.

[Searing]

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

btc decentralises nation states - what is for example the USG without the US$? and what is the USA without the USG? Angry people with guns.
and boats. any ship or island when that shtf will be a sitting target for pirates.

Pirates sound scary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxK7o74-kY

Could even make a sport out of them...target practice.

lol well yes they weren't much of a match. point is pirates will seize bigger gvt assets

So you're basically saying that seasteads will be such a great thing that people will be clamoring to get to one.

Reminds me of the early days of Bitcoin when the Keynesians were saying that nobody will ever buy bitcoins because the value will keep rising.

The powers that be...nation states with the ships etc..will simply say that such endeavors are a hazard to international comerce and shipping and not allow them
that way imho.....IF such an endeavor was ever a true tax haven.....(can you say blockaide or worse)

I suppose it could be a 'niche' thing and ignored or tolerated..but doubtful if enough people use it as a tax haven (at least from usa irs point of view)

too many avenues to strangle this baby in the crib imho for it to really work at the scale folks want it to work

then again I drank the kool aid at one time and believed in BFL Miners ..so wth do I know

[Last of the V8s]

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

btc decentralises nation states - what is for example the USG without the US$? and what is the USA without the USG? Angry people with guns.
and boats. any ship or island when that shtf will be a sitting target for pirates.

Pirates sound scary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxK7o74-kY

Could even make a sport out of them...target practice.

lol well yes they weren't much of a match. point is pirates will seize bigger gvt assets

So you're basically saying that seasteads will be such a great thing that people will be clamoring to get to one.

Reminds me of the early days of Bitcoin when the Keynesians were saying that nobody will ever buy bitcoins because the value will keep rising.

I concede they might be a great thing well after the anarchy of hyperbitcoinization has settled down.

For now and during the chaos they are a tiny 51%-able altcoin.

[ActiveP]

I remember when the price shot up to 60 dollars when I had bought at 20, all my friends at work were saying I should sell. Calling me crazy for not selling as it went over 100.

I will diversify into Seasteading later this year as I see that as the next world changing technology that I believe in.

You know what I tell these people? "You didn't tell me when to buy, so don't tell me when to sell!"

Can you post something elaborating on why seasteading is a world changing technology? I fail to see the implications...

Though currently it is being spun as a "green technology" to appease the environmental mafia, the concept is similar to cryptocurrencies in that you can spin up your own "government" and let the best one win.

We're just about to start Phase 1 which is building a prototype in a nation's protected harbor with limited autonomy. Phase 2 is moving 12nm outside of the nation's borders but still in fairly shallow waters and inside the nation's EEZ. The final phase, Phase 3 is an autonomous seastead 200nm from any nation in international waters. Basically creating a new floating nation. The first one will be like Bitcoin and grow bigger and better over time. While others will duplicate the technology and concept and build their own seasteads in various places around the world implementing their own concepts in the hopes that people will join them.

One of the keys to the concept is that your home/platform is mobile. If you don't like the way things are being run you just float to another seastead that you do like. It allows for competing governments in an incubator type of fashion where something much better than our current governments will arrise due to the free market force of choice.

One example given is that if the government of a seastead declared war with someone, they might be surprised to wake up in the morning to discover that all of their citizens floated away in middle of the night to form a new seastead.

I spent a week in Tahiti last month at a conference with some very intelligent people who are working to bring the first seastead to French Polynesia. The president welcomed us and they are very open to giving us a special economic zone in one of their protected harbors. The company that was formed, Blue Frontiers, should be taking investors soon. I spoke with their finance guy and told him to contact me as soon as they are ready for investors. I also sat down with their crypto workgroup and was humbled by the amount of talent that team brings with it. We definitely want people to be able to use Bitcoin to invest and record property ownership on the blockchain. The legislation should go through around January, then things will take off from there.


TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

Mmm I like this sea stead idea, creating a state on the high seas sounds novel and a bit utopian. Will decentralised nations use decentralised currency?

Good concept on paper, but I don't think it practical, and already there are murmurs that a it could be a refuge for the wealthy to avoid taxes or other problems.

[Searing]

We'll see the bull keep going until later next week and then likely a major dump. However, we'll see 5 digits by Feb 2018 w/ a major breakout coming in 2019. That's right I said it.

That is the question. I have 100 btc and nothing in anymore but time/hobby/labor....I mined my way into the 100 btc being all profit...thus how the hell can I even think
about selling....triumph or tulips at this point in time for me.

But the question is again how high will it go....if it goes to say 6k drops to 3k and recovers....slowly say 4-5 months of sideways..then repeats

I expect a 'staircase' kind of climb...right now it looks like a high speed escalator at WTH speed

but anyway ...there will be a correction dump or whatever you want to call it...but damn from how high to how far a correction will it be

and IF it is all about adoption..it may NOT stop rising for a few months yet depending on demand

anyway the pucker factor to sell will be immense when if it hits 5,000 usd btc imho.....shit got real


But again...say it dumps back to 2k ....well hell it was $450 usd last July 2016 or so right? ......the real question is does btc and crypto have legs to NOT

drop below 2k anymore etc etc.....if so that means it must be a combo of 'adoption' and 'holding' of a pretty substantial scale imho...more so if it pumps to 5k eventually

anyway, out of my hands ..just have to ride this sled down the hill ....exciting times

A case could be made for me selling out now..but I'd feel ok at 1k btc again vs 5k btc if I jumped out now....such is the bet..such are folks choices

It's not all or nothing, Searing.  Intuitively, you seem to know that, even though you are spouting out about selling just in case prices go to $1k... hahahaha 

I have seen before that you seem to like this number 100BTC and you seem to want to maintain your holdings at that, even when you sell some you want to get them back, and there is nothing wrong with that - except you seem a little bit nervous about holding that much and how much actual dollars it represents (and of course profits), and in that regard, maybe you should take some profits.  Maybe, you could take 5 BTC off the table or or 10btc or a greater amount or a smaller amount.  You do not have to bet the whole lot.

Even taking 1 BTC off the lot for every $200 rise, would still leave you with nearly 90BTC if we were to reach $5k, but sounds to me that you would like to take a bit more off the table, even though you like that 100BTC number.

Go on, tweak the number in order that you feel more comfortable and plan for the rise.  At least make an outline of a plan that is comfortable for you and that you can live with either way.

I'm at about 91% BTC in my BTC investment fund, and I am pretty comfortable with that at these prices - however, if prices shoot up to $5k, I will probably be around 85% - but that still can leave me in a kind of quandary about whether I believe my cash is working hard enough.  Yeah, of course, if the price drops, you wish that you would have sold more and if the price goes up, you wished you would not have sold so much.  You are never going to get around that dilemma, so you gotta just embrace whatever plan you make and just tweak it on the edges, rather than taking drastic steps.

yeah I agree....100 btc was pretty much unobtainable for me from like 2013 to 2016 from LTC mining. I used to sign my posts "my never to ROI $10,131.80 KNC Titan miner" (boy was I wrong) in 2014.

all this was mostly due to luck etc...so yeah 100 btc is my hoard comfort level....so if it goes to 1k I'll hold at 100 btc free and clear of any real $$$ in that hoard is all profit...at 3k I'll hold too

at 5k each or $500k usd I'll probably fold like an accordion in that 1 year and 1 day will be past for all of it and no more 40% capital gains on the last of it...and it shall mock me to pay

the IRS 20% capital gains and run amuck

I mean holy crap. 5k BTC at 100 btc..sheesh...got a btc woody just thinking about it

But I"m still mining 10k a month...so perhaps before all my equip goes doorstop by say Dec at worst....I can just muck around and play with that...esp if it hits 5K usd then when
they doorstop that is $50k to blow on stupid stuff and I can leave the 100 btc alone

there really is no wrong answer..its the lack of control.or to say (i've no idea i'm on a rocket..i don't know how safe the rocket is as it goes up...I don't know if the rocket
has a parachute...and everyone is telling me it will be all just dandy and enjoy the ride)

ahem..yeah the pucker factor is getting interesting to say the least

we will see if I have the balls to hold at 10k....(likely the sheer joy of such an event would kill me dead) ...but damn just a couple months ago they were saying it would be

nice if btc was more then gold....now it is double gold...heady times for a guy who got his first miner of BTC in 2013 to help those in micro lending and such in India as a draw

(hell, I thought it was like 'folding' I'd help with a crypto in crummy countries like India...and before it doorstopped pay my utils for 6-9 months...my goals were modest)

so anyway ....I just need to suck it up and be less of a cup cake...but I guess Satoshi is right...it is either gonna work well and be worth something or not at all and worth
nothing

Be careful what you wish for you may surely get it

[JayJuanGee]

Anyhow, sometimes we have to invest a bit and then just stay the course and just write off our principle.

I've pulled out ~13x my original investment in the last few weeks. And it only dented my principal.

Well, I didn't really pull it out. It's overwhelmingly on exchange in open buy orders. At profit, of course.

Sure as shit, there'll be a nasty overshoot correction. We're still not doubling per days, so not yet. 3x more? 10x more? Who knows? But I'll be ready to buy back in the aftermath.

If my exchanges don't cut'n'run in the meantime, that is. Calculated Spitballed risk.

Even though you and I argue about some of the specifics, we likely are following a pretty similar practice - except it is quite likely that your investment amount was at a lower cost per BTC than mine, which causes you more ability to have pulled out the principle or even pulled it out multiple times.

Possibly, I was not describing very specifically, but if we employ a kind of dollar cost averaging investing and  investing non-leveraged and not more than you can afford to lose (while being able to easily maintain your cashflow without any emergency needs to pull out your BTC), then you don't have to get so worked up about whether or not you got your principle back or not.. because you can pull some of that money out and just leave it as a kind of "cash rich" status, and like you said, prepared for the correction... Sure we could get a 10% to 20% correction at any time, but it does not seem too likely since we already experienced the correction from $2,760 to $1,850, so maybe between here and $3600 we might get 10% or 15% corrections.  On the other hand, by the time we get into the $4k to $6k territory, a correction of 50% or even more (even breaking below $2k) would not be unreasonable - especially if we can get some extra press with UASF or some other uncertainties like that including maybe even an actual fork threat... 

Anyhow, having money prepared to buy is not going to be a bad thing, as long as you do not get so excited and shoot your wad too early by buying back too much too soon... which is also not easy to measure with any kind of accuracy.

[Elwar]

TL;DR Seasteading will allow for the decentralizing of nations the same way Bitcoin decentralizes currency.

btc decentralises nation states - what is for example the USG without the US$? and what is the USA without the USG? Angry people with guns.
and boats. any ship or island when that shtf will be a sitting target for pirates.

Pirates sound scary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxK7o74-kY

Could even make a sport out of them...target practice.

lol well yes they weren't much of a match. point is pirates will seize bigger gvt assets

So you're basically saying that seasteads will be such a great thing that people will be clamoring to get to one.

Reminds me of the early days of Bitcoin when the Keynesians were saying that nobody will ever buy bitcoins because the value will keep rising.

The powers that be...nation states with the ships etc..will simply say that such endeavors are a hazard to international comerce and shipping and not allow them
that way imho.....IF such an endeavor was ever a true tax haven.....(can you say blockaide or worse)

I suppose it could be a 'niche' thing and ignored or tolerated..but doubtful if enough people use it as a tax haven (at least from usa irs point of view)

too many avenues to strangle this baby in the crib imho for it to really work at the scale folks want it to work

then again I drank the kool aid at one time and believed in BFL Miners ..so wth do I know

The Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos, Belize, Bermuda...all tax havens. Not too many ships rolling up attacking them for their freedoms.

I am sure between the time of Phase 1 in a protected harbor of a nation state and Phase 3 out in international waters, the people actually living on the seasteads will figure out stuff that people right now on an Internet forum cannot even fathom.

Imagine someone trying to explain Purse.io's business concept back in 2009.

[JayJuanGee]

Can someone answer Why then price is getting So Fast down And up the whole time?
Were not in a correction mode i geus...

When there are big price moves, sometimes people get a little paralyzed and they do not put money back on the order books, so the order books become somewhat thin.. therefore the price continues to move alot once it started to move and there continues to be disagreement about the price.  Sometimes this will settle down and then becomes a bit more difficult to get it to move and the order books fill up too.

[fluidjax]

Can someone answer Why then price is getting So Fast down And up the whole time?
Were not in a correction mode i geus...

When there are big price moves, sometimes people get a little paralyzed and they do not put money back on the order books, so the order books become somewhat thin.. therefore the price continues to move alot once it started to move and there continues to be disagreement about the price.  Sometimes this will settle down and then becomes a bit more difficult to get it to move and the order books fill up too.

The price movements 'absolutely' are large compared to what we have been used to in the past, however 'relatively' to the price they are only a few %. Even that 'correction' yesterday was only $244, which at $2800 is only 8.7%.
Of course a $240 swing when the price was only $800 would be more like 30% which is much more significant.
If the price continues to rise we must get used to much larger price changes, eventually if could move  $1000's or even $10,000's (here's hoping) in a day.

[savetherainforest]

Can someone answer Why then price is getting So Fast down And up the whole time?
Were not in a correction mode i geus...

You must be new here... ... If you check the historical data, you will see that it is much more stable now than what it was in the past! ... Some made even 100% profits in bitcoin in a matter of days! But now if you make 5-10% in the best week. The thing is that when we look at fiat numbers, we don't see value in them! We only look at the percentage volatility of bitcoin.

[Biro Bob]

Technically, we're only marginally above the 2013 price  if you adjust for inflation . In 2013 I wanted to buy a house costing £430,000.

Now in 2017, the house is back on the market for £760,000.