Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ElectricMucus]

Starting to look bad from here... 

Since when cheap coins look bad?

Always. It hurts the coin.

No only when you are "all in" (which means you are broke and invested more than you can afford to lose)

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[Frozenlock]

bears taking advantage  of the usa memorial day arent they ? no worries we can buy coins back at higher prices soon lol

well, 1% daily trading profit is 3678% annual trading profit if you manage that consistently...
(But almost nobody does, that doesn't stop one from trying though...)

And the exchanges would sooooo love you.

[Rampion]

Starting to look bad from here... 

Since when cheap coins look bad?

Always. It hurts the coin.

No only when you are "all in" (which means you are broke and invested more than you can afford to lose)

This. 

Just a remark: you can be "all in" in the sense that you bought coins with all the funds you have at your disposal for BTC trading/investing, which is obviously needs to be an amount you can afford to lose.

[michaelGedi]

Starting to look bad from here... 

Since when cheap coins look bad?

Always. It hurts the coin.

No only when you are "all in" (which means you are broke and invested more than you can afford to lose)

I've been wondering recently what is "more than you can afford to lose"?

should there be a distinction between "more than you can afford to lose" and "an amount that you can afford to lose, but it's quite a large percentage of what you own"...?

[Rampion]

Starting to look bad from here... 

Since when cheap coins look bad?

Always. It hurts the coin.

This is not true. Bitcoin already went from $32 to $2. Did it "hurt the coin"? No. Bitcoin is resilient, but very much prone to volatility because of its scarcity. Don't fool yourself thinking that it can only go up. It will go up, then down, then it will bubble, then it will lose 85% of its value.

Been there, seen that. Nothing to worry about. Just be cold-minded enough to do not shit yourself when it loses 85% of its value, just BUY more.

 

[Frozenlock]

I've been wondering recently what is "more than you can afford to lose"?

should there be a distinction between "more than you can afford to lose" and "an amount that you can afford to lose, but it's quite a large percentage of what you own"...?

Well yeah, there is a distinction. That's why you expressed it differently.  

[samson]

Starting to look bad from here... 

Since when cheap coins look bad?

Always. It hurts the coin.

This is not true. Bitcoin already went from $32 to $2. Did it "hurt the coin"? No. Bitcoin is resilient, but very much prone to volatility because of its scarcity. Don't fool yourself thinking that it can only go up. It will go up, then down, then it will bubble, then it will lose 85% of its value.

Been there, seen that. Nothing to worry about. Just be cold-minded enough to do not shit yourself when it loses 85% of its value, just BUY more.

 

Quite right but don't hold it like an idiot all the way down - sell it and buy it back much cheaper.

[Ultraviolet]

I've been wondering recently what is "more than you can afford to lose"?

should there be a distinction between "more than you can afford to lose" and "an amount that you can afford to lose, but it's quite a large percentage of what you own"...?

It's really up to the individual. You can set hard limits at the level of "an amount where if you lost it you'd be bankrupt/in serious trouble" etc, but for each individual what they're comfortable with risking on an investment/speculation, what they can recover, and what they can mentally and emotionally endure are all different for each person.

General principle: don't invest an amount where if you lose it your life will change for the worse in significant ways.

[Rampion]

Starting to look bad from here...  

Since when cheap coins look bad?

Always. It hurts the coin.

No only when you are "all in" (which means you are broke and invested more than you can afford to lose)

I've been wondering recently what is "more than you can afford to lose"?

should there be a distinction between "more than you can afford to lose" and "an amount that you can afford to lose, but it's quite a large percentage of what you own"...?

Well, the % you can afford to lose is different for every person, depending on his circumstances.

Some guy in his 20s could totally afford to lose all his fiat denominated savings on BTC - the cost of losing the opportunity could be higher than the damage done if his few $'s vanish.

A guy completely debt-free and with a nice and secure monthly income could also risk a relatively high % of his savings to BTC.

Au contraire, someone with a family to feed and a monthly income that is just enough to cover the expenses, should risk very little of his savings on BTC.

It's just a matter of personal situation. I know that in other times of my life I would have risked all my fiat savings, which is something I wouldn't do now.

[adamstgBit]

definitely put more then you can afford to lose in BTC... trust me don't make the same mistake i made

[Rampion]

definitely put more then you can afford to lose in BTC... trust me don't make the same mistake i made

Sorry adam, but that's bad advice. Bitcoin is a high-risk investment, and that's why it has such a potentially huge return. If you put more than you can afford to lose (meaning that your life would change significantly if you lose it, that you may not be able to pay debts, send your kid to school, etc.) you are just a nuthead or a pathologic gambler. Because at the end of the day, BTC is more a gamble than an investment.

[Rampion]

Starting to look bad from here... 

Since when cheap coins look bad?

Always. It hurts the coin.

This is not true. Bitcoin already went from $32 to $2. Did it "hurt the coin"? No. Bitcoin is resilient, but very much prone to volatility because of its scarcity. Don't fool yourself thinking that it can only go up. It will go up, then down, then it will bubble, then it will lose 85% of its value.

Been there, seen that. Nothing to worry about. Just be cold-minded enough to do not shit yourself when it loses 85% of its value, just BUY more.

 

Quite right but don't hold it like an idiot all the way down - sell it and buy it back much cheaper.

That's the ideal, but it's not so easy to spot the tops and the bottoms. I very much prefer to hold than to make a mistake and end up with less BTC's.

I admit a daytrade a bit, but only with play money, for the fun of it. Most of my trading consists in spotting the bottom to buy more, that's it.

[michaelGedi]

I've been wondering recently what is "more than you can afford to lose"?

should there be a distinction between "more than you can afford to lose" and "an amount that you can afford to lose, but it's quite a large percentage of what you own"...?

Well yeah, there is a distinction. That's why you expressed it differently.  

yes

..I feel the phrase gets thrown around a lot... personally more than I can afford to lose would mean I can't support myself if I lost it. I lost so much that I can't afford other things.


for someone else the same phrase will mean something different, e.g. if they lost their savings. They may still have their house and enough money coming in to survive and maintain a certain quality of life... the distinction is present but the phrase stays the same.

I'm enquiring more as to what a possible "standard definition" of the phrase should be.


e.g. I read some advice somewhere that it's not a good idea to have more than 5-10% of your assets in one investment. For those who subscribe to that practice, if they lost more than 11% then that would be their "more than they can afford".



EDIT - thanks for the other replies, typing rather slow today...

Rampion essentially covered what I've written here

[phorensic]

It's any dump on MtGox now? (from $ 135.5 to $ 132.5)

Just the normal weekend dip I have been waiting for 

You waited all weekend for a 3 dollar dip?

Depending on how many BTC you are trading a $3 dip could be huge. But I highly doubt they are playing with a couple thousand BTC

I'm sorry.  That was when it was just starting.  Here is the real dip.  Buy up fellas!

[adamstgBit]

definitely put more then you can afford to lose in BTC... trust me don't make the same mistake i made

Sorry adam, but that's bad advice. Bitcoin is a high-risk investment, and that's why it has such a potentially huge return. If you put more than you can afford to lose (meaning that your life would change significantly if you lose it, that you may not be able to pay debts, send your kid to school, etc.) you are just a nuthead or a pathologic gambler. Because at the end of the day, BTC is more a gamble than an investment.

ok fine, definitely put the MAXIMUM amount of money you can afford to lose.

[Coinseeker]

Coinseeker, we all knew that suckers would have panicked after the Dwolla situation, and this is why everybody following this thread sold just before or at the beginning of the dip to buy back cheaper shortly after. But you were actually saying that the panic was justified, that the situation was indeed very bad news for BTC mid-term and that this was just a first step in a coordinated attack that would have killed Bitcoin - all these statements were based on superficial and flawed analysis that was destroyed by regulars with a better understanding of Bitcoin.

And BTW, here you are now "predicting" that BTC will go up up up.

I still totally believe that DHS and the USG aren't done with Bitcoin.  Not by a long shot. But are you really riding me for "speculating" in a speculation thread?  You don't have to agree that it's that dire, that's your right.  I do and only time will tell what's actually true.  I make my decisions based on how I interpret incoming information, just as you do.  I shouldn't be demonized just because it may be contrary to majority opinion.  

I get frustrated and say silly things just like anyone but I feel most of what I say is genuine based on my view of the information.  Last week I said clearly that it "appears" as if DHS is at least pretending to only care about not being in compliance of FinCEN.  That could prove to be absolutely true.  I don't believe that but I could be wrong.  I had information last week and I used that information, free from ideology, to correctly determine a rise in price.  If I was concerned with just being "right", according to ideology, I would never had said such.  

I don't come here to be "right".  I come here to learn from a couple I deem worthy and to share my view of the incoming information.  I make predictions and I've been pretty good at it.  I have weakness for getting sucked into nonsense and that's why you see that passage under my avatar.  It's not for any of you...it's to remind myself of what's most important because I am just as flawed as any of you.

[Frozenlock]

How dare you think Bitcoin will not always go up Up UP?! 

[Rampion]

definitely put more then you can afford to lose in BTC... trust me don't make the same mistake i made

Sorry adam, but that's bad advice. Bitcoin is a high-risk investment, and that's why it has such a potentially huge return. If you put more than you can afford to lose (meaning that your life would change significantly if you lose it, that you may not be able to pay debts, send your kid to school, etc.) you are just a nuthead or a pathologic gambler. Because at the end of the day, BTC is more a gamble than an investment.

ok fine, definitely put the MAXIMUM amount of money you can afford to lose.

There we have an agreement, my friend

I will say more: STOP buying silly things with your "spare" money, just throw it to Bitcoin!

[michaelGedi]

definitely put more then you can afford to lose in BTC... trust me don't make the same mistake i made

Sorry adam, but that's bad advice. Bitcoin is a high-risk investment, and that's why it has such a potentially huge return. If you put more than you can afford to lose (meaning that your life would change significantly if you lose it, that you may not be able to pay debts, send your kid to school, etc.) you are just a nuthead or a pathologic gambler. Because at the end of the day, BTC is more a gamble than an investment.

ok fine, definitely put the MAXIMUM amount of money you can afford to lose.

There we have an agreement, my friend

I will say more: STOP buying silly things with your "spare" money, just throw it to Bitcoin!

yes, this has already been done of course

after webmoney, VC announcements and conference default stance changed to all in.

more BTC accepting vendors for day to day shopping in UK would be nice... those purchases would have to be far more carefully considered and wouldn't have to keep "spare money" around to buy food/drinks/travel etc...

[Frozenlock]

after webmoney, VC announcements and conference default stance changed to all in.

You won't be able to prop up the price then.