Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[milkshock100]

Futures is restricting btc growth from now on

How so? Not that I disagree...

Setting an artificial benchmark for valuation

And what does that mean?

Well if they set a price people *may* elect to follow it.

Why on earth would they do that?

As I said let’s hope not. It would tie in with a rush to alts though .

I fail to see how alts ties in.

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

[realr0ach]

Since this market is nothing but one giant scam with centralized mining, a centralized technocracy controlling coin parameters, and centralized collusion controlling where the price goes among a handful of corporate entites like Pantera Capital, the fact that all alts turned green means BTC dump imminent because they're clearly signaling they now want to try and sell you overpriced altcoins instead of overpriced btc.

[Arriemoller]

Futures is restricting btc growth from now on

How so? Not that I disagree...

Setting an artificial benchmark for valuation

And what does that mean?

Well if they set a price people *may* elect to follow it.

Why on earth would they do that?

As I said let’s hope not. It would tie in with a rush to alts though .

I fail to see how alts ties in.

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

Paranoia can be good.

[Arriemoller]

Since this market is nothing but one giant scam with centralized mining, a centralized technocracy controlling coin parameters and development, and centralized collusion controlling where the price goes among a handful of corporate entites like Pantera Capital, the fact that all alts turned green means BTC dump imminent because they now want to try and sell you overpriced altcoins instead of overpriced btc.

But of course Mr Roach.

[European Central Bank]

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

let's see what happens when both futures markets are running for a while, but i think you could be on to something.

bitcoin and alt traders are used to commanding the market. if that's taken away from bitcoin then they have a whole world of other coins that they do have more control of. it's possible futures might make a two speed crypto market. as certain alts gets bigger they too might have futures at which point they're left to the bigger boys too.

it'll drive more regulation and much more discerning exchanges. they won't list shitcoins.

but whatever happens it's gonna take a while to figure out the effects.

[realr0ach]

Since this market is nothing but one giant scam with centralized mining, a centralized technocracy controlling coin parameters and development, and centralized collusion controlling where the price goes among a handful of corporate entites like Pantera Capital, the fact that all alts turned green means BTC dump imminent because they now want to try and sell you overpriced altcoins instead of overpriced btc.

But of course Mr Roach.

They may have been wrong before, but not from what I recall, so these Wall Street style, douchebag "coin hedge funds" massive shift from BTC to alts in one giant wave is probably a valid indicator of what's going on.  These markets are entirely nothing but pump and dumps and nothing else.  They just try and run up one vapor worthless asset as high as they can, then as soon as they have successfully created a bubble there and it starts to falter, they then move on to the next place to try and create an artifical bubble somewhere else.  

Since each cryptocurrency is entirely as worthless as the next one with no valid valuation metrics possible because they're imaginary 0's and 1's, they believe they can just shift back and forth from one to another infinitely to extract money from people.  Most retail "investors" usually exit the market and never come back after either gaining or losing big, meaning if someone buys bitcoin for $1 and sells for $1000, they're never going to purchase a $17,000 bitcoin.  So this whole thing is one unsustainable trainwreck scam.

[Arriemoller]

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

let's see what happens when both futures markets are running for a while, but i think you could be on to something.

bitcoin and alt traders are used to commanding the market. if that's taken away from bitcoin then they have a whole world of other coins that they do have more control of. it's possible futures might make a two speed crypto market. as certain alts gets bigger they too might have futures at which point they're left to the bigger boys too.

it'll drive more regulation and much more discerning exchanges. they won't list shitcoins.

but whatever happens it's gonna take a while to figure out the effects.

How is a cash settled bet on bitcoin taking away command of the market?

[European Central Bank]

How is a cash settled bet on bitcoin taking away command of the market?

it doesn't on its own of course, but it inspires people with futures positions to take some direct involvement in the bitcoin market and they have a lot more money to play with than the last generation of whales.

[rolling]

Raoul posted the full story today, an absolutely must read for all... .

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/12/bitcoin-doesnt-exist-the-full-story/

This is truly awesome. Very well written!

[svdleer]

In the meanwhile we finally broke through the 17,200 on GDAX

[Arriemoller]

How is a cash settled bet on bitcoin taking away command of the market?

it doesn't on its own of course, but it inspires people with futures positions to take some direct involvement in the bitcoin market and they have a lot more money to play with than the last generation of whales.

But that should be bullish rather than bearish.

[erre]

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

let's see what happens when both futures markets are running for a while, but i think you could be on to something.

bitcoin and alt traders are used to commanding the market. if that's taken away from bitcoin then they have a whole world of other coins that they do have more control of. it's possible futures might make a two speed crypto market. as certain alts gets bigger they too might have futures at which point they're left to the bigger boys too.

it'll drive more regulation and much more discerning exchanges. they won't list shitcoins.

but whatever happens it's gonna take a while to figure out the effects.

How is a cash settled bet on bitcoin taking away command of the market?

Interesting question, here is the (partial but we'll written) answer:

https://medium.com/swlh/will-the-futures-market-do-to-bitcoin-what-it-did-to-gold-b7d35704641

[Arriemoller]

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

let's see what happens when both futures markets are running for a while, but i think you could be on to something.

bitcoin and alt traders are used to commanding the market. if that's taken away from bitcoin then they have a whole world of other coins that they do have more control of. it's possible futures might make a two speed crypto market. as certain alts gets bigger they too might have futures at which point they're left to the bigger boys too.

it'll drive more regulation and much more discerning exchanges. they won't list shitcoins.

but whatever happens it's gonna take a while to figure out the effects.

How is a cash settled bet on bitcoin taking away command of the market?

Interesting question, here is the (partial but we'll written) answer:

https://medium.com/swlh/will-the-futures-market-do-to-bitcoin-what-it-did-to-gold-b7d35704641

Are the gold futures cash settled as well?

[European Central Bank]

Interesting question, here is the (partial but we'll written) answer:

https://medium.com/swlh/will-the-futures-market-do-to-bitcoin-what-it-did-to-gold-b7d35704641

maybe i'm being dumb but that didn't address the question at all, all it did was make some historic comparisons to precious metals and it didn't explain the actual mechanism as to why futures affected them either.

[realr0ach]

Raoul posted the full story today, an absolutely must read for all... .

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/12/bitcoin-doesnt-exist-the-full-story/

This is truly awesome. Very well written!

Didn't read it all yet, but the quote and it's conclusions "So money at its most austere is simply a promise" was kind of bullshit.  The real crux of the situation is that money is an imaginary or social construct humans use to try and gain leverage over one another, and so the further you abstract human trade away from barter, the bigger an immoral scam you have created.  THIS is why only physical commodity currencies can be money, whether it's gold, silver, oil, wheat, or what have you.  Anything that does not have some type of roots in the real world is a flat out scam because you're inherently trying to con other humans into accepting something of no value for a real world good of value.

[Ibian]

1. Bitcoin

2. Litecoin (only because of Atomic-Swaps)

3. .....

4. .....

5. .....

Rest is a huge pile of dogshit.

Lightning network will make litecoin obsolete. Rootstock will make ETH obsolete.

The only altcoin with good long term prospects is Monero. It has the two important aspects that bitcoin cannot and/or will not ever have: anonymity and fungibility.

Mimblewimble/tumblebit will make Monero unnecessary

Mimblewimble will be launching as an altcoin now, and not a BTC sidechain as originally planned. Tumblebit is 100% centralized, and requires absolute trust in the tumblebit server operators

That's why you need dribblewomble

The best part is that I can't tell if that's a real thing, or sarcasm.

[savetherainforest]

Pullback. I blame futures.

Just wait till those altcoins start pulling back and all this money flows back into BTCitcoin 

They expect that fiat whales will play both markets and they are counting on dumps. But the thing is that if they buy it is more easy to make the price go up than dump for the price to get down and win their bets on the futures exchange.

[bitcoinPsycho]

I Was Wrong About Bitcoin. Here’s Why.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/technology/bitcoin-predictions.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

[Meuh6879]

it doesn't on its own of course, but it inspires people with futures positions to take some direct involvement in the bitcoin market ...

Well, limited supply (and so available coins to buy) solve this ... and trust me when we know that Holder don't release easily the coins.

[Ibian]

The whole energy argument is stupid. It's in the best interests of miners to have the cheapest electricity possible, right? Well, once you pay the up front costs for solar and wind and such, that's basically it, for years. So it's a self solving problem, because miners will seek profit, and they means reducing recurring costs. I mean, with enough solar/wind, even GPU miners would be profitable with btc mining. Sure is only a few hundred Satoshi a day, but so what? It doesn't cost anything!

Oh no you didn't. Run the numbers for us. Show us how right you are.