Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[erre]

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

let's see what happens when both futures markets are running for a while, but i think you could be on to something.

bitcoin and alt traders are used to commanding the market. if that's taken away from bitcoin then they have a whole world of other coins that they do have more control of. it's possible futures might make a two speed crypto market. as certain alts gets bigger they too might have futures at which point they're left to the bigger boys too.

it'll drive more regulation and much more discerning exchanges. they won't list shitcoins.

but whatever happens it's gonna take a while to figure out the effects.

How is a cash settled bet on bitcoin taking away command of the market?

Interesting question, here is the (partial but we'll written) answer:

https://medium.com/swlh/will-the-futures-market-do-to-bitcoin-what-it-did-to-gold-b7d35704641

[Arriemoller]

Alts aren’t part of futures. Anyway Forget it. I’m probably just being paranoid.

let's see what happens when both futures markets are running for a while, but i think you could be on to something.

bitcoin and alt traders are used to commanding the market. if that's taken away from bitcoin then they have a whole world of other coins that they do have more control of. it's possible futures might make a two speed crypto market. as certain alts gets bigger they too might have futures at which point they're left to the bigger boys too.

it'll drive more regulation and much more discerning exchanges. they won't list shitcoins.

but whatever happens it's gonna take a while to figure out the effects.

How is a cash settled bet on bitcoin taking away command of the market?

Interesting question, here is the (partial but we'll written) answer:

https://medium.com/swlh/will-the-futures-market-do-to-bitcoin-what-it-did-to-gold-b7d35704641

Are the gold futures cash settled as well?

[European Central Bank]

Interesting question, here is the (partial but we'll written) answer:

https://medium.com/swlh/will-the-futures-market-do-to-bitcoin-what-it-did-to-gold-b7d35704641

maybe i'm being dumb but that didn't address the question at all, all it did was make some historic comparisons to precious metals and it didn't explain the actual mechanism as to why futures affected them either.

[realr0ach]

Raoul posted the full story today, an absolutely must read for all... .

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/12/bitcoin-doesnt-exist-the-full-story/

This is truly awesome. Very well written!

Didn't read it all yet, but the quote and it's conclusions "So money at its most austere is simply a promise" was kind of bullshit.  The real crux of the situation is that money is an imaginary or social construct humans use to try and gain leverage over one another, and so the further you abstract human trade away from barter, the bigger an immoral scam you have created.  THIS is why only physical commodity currencies can be money, whether it's gold, silver, oil, wheat, or what have you.  Anything that does not have some type of roots in the real world is a flat out scam because you're inherently trying to con other humans into accepting something of no value for a real world good of value.

[Ibian]

1. Bitcoin

2. Litecoin (only because of Atomic-Swaps)

3. .....

4. .....

5. .....

Rest is a huge pile of dogshit.

Lightning network will make litecoin obsolete. Rootstock will make ETH obsolete.

The only altcoin with good long term prospects is Monero. It has the two important aspects that bitcoin cannot and/or will not ever have: anonymity and fungibility.

Mimblewimble/tumblebit will make Monero unnecessary

Mimblewimble will be launching as an altcoin now, and not a BTC sidechain as originally planned. Tumblebit is 100% centralized, and requires absolute trust in the tumblebit server operators

That's why you need dribblewomble

The best part is that I can't tell if that's a real thing, or sarcasm.

[savetherainforest]

Pullback. I blame futures.

Just wait till those altcoins start pulling back and all this money flows back into BTCitcoin 

They expect that fiat whales will play both markets and they are counting on dumps. But the thing is that if they buy it is more easy to make the price go up than dump for the price to get down and win their bets on the futures exchange.

[bitcoinPsycho]

I Was Wrong About Bitcoin. Here’s Why.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/technology/bitcoin-predictions.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

[Meuh6879]

it doesn't on its own of course, but it inspires people with futures positions to take some direct involvement in the bitcoin market ...

Well, limited supply (and so available coins to buy) solve this ... and trust me when we know that Holder don't release easily the coins.

[Ibian]

The whole energy argument is stupid. It's in the best interests of miners to have the cheapest electricity possible, right? Well, once you pay the up front costs for solar and wind and such, that's basically it, for years. So it's a self solving problem, because miners will seek profit, and they means reducing recurring costs. I mean, with enough solar/wind, even GPU miners would be profitable with btc mining. Sure is only a few hundred Satoshi a day, but so what? It doesn't cost anything!

Oh no you didn't. Run the numbers for us. Show us how right you are.

[Meuh6879]

Bitcoins price is set by supply and demand, and no cash settled futures can change that.

and we have already disseminate 79,7% of the bitcoins.

[criptix]

guys kwuckduck is back .- anyone saw notlampchop and stolfi?  

Bitcoins price is set by supply and demand, and no cash settled futures can change that.

and we have already disseminate 79,7% of the bitcoins.

Did you guys follow MSM? There are articles everywhere about ppl getting loans on their houses to buy BTC at 17k.

Wall Street just needs to dump BTC to 10 k and the sheeps will most probaly dump their whole stash they bought at 15+k

[realr0ach]

and we have already disseminate 79,7% of the bitcoins.

In the grand scheme of things, bitcoin will probably have zero effect on the trajectory the world is locked into.  The only portion of the population that is doing okay is the 35% or so who are all-in on helicopter money fueled stocks, and bitcoin distribution is so terrible due to ASICs that it probably only alters that 35% of who are ok to 35.1 at most%.  So in America at least, the country is doomed to civil unrest and implosion no matter what.

[Arriemoller]

Bitcoins price is set by supply and demand, and no cash settled futures can change that.

and we have already disseminate 79,7% of the bitcoins.

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

[orpington]

Raoul posted the full story today, an absolutely must read for all... .

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/12/bitcoin-doesnt-exist-the-full-story/

This is truly awesome. Very well written!

Didn't read it all yet, but the quote and it's conclusions "So money at its most austere is simply a promise" was kind of bullshit.  The real crux of the situation is that money is an imaginary or social construct humans use to try and gain leverage over one another, and so the further you abstract human trade away from barter, the bigger an immoral scam you have created.  THIS is why only physical commodity currencies can be money, whether it's gold, silver, oil, wheat, or what have you.  Anything that does not have some type of roots in the real world is a flat out scam because you're inherently trying to con other humans into accepting something of no value for a real world good of value.

you could just buy some bitcoin, wait a bit, then buy even more gold/silver and then contribute even more to weakening the Jewish bankster.

Goyim of the world unite!

[criptix]

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

im a superbull - but thats even too much for me:

[Ibian]

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

im a superbull - but thats even too much for me:

It's maff. And yes it sounds ludicrous. But if bitcoin becomes widespread enough, which it will if the global fiat economy collapses, which it will, then it really could happen.

Let's just not forget our principles if we end up as billionaires one day.

[Arriemoller]

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

im a superbull - but thats even too much for me:

That's what some people said in here when I predicted 10000 by the end of this year and 80000 by the end of next year, and look where we are now.

[rolling]

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

im a superbull - but thats even too much for me:

That's what some people said in here when I predicted 10000 by the end of this year and 80000 by the end of next year, and look where we are now.

Yeah, the human brain is not very good at understanding big numbers. $100-$10,000 seems doable but $10,000 to $1,000,000 seems impossible. That's why they created the stock split to keep people buying with astronomical stock prices.

[criptix]

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

im a superbull - but thats even too much for me:

It's maff. And yes it sounds ludicrous. But if bitcoin becomes widespread enough, which it will if the global fiat economy collapses, which it will, then it really could happen.

Let's just not forget our principles if we end up as billionaires one day.

Yes one day we will be there for sure - but i really doubt that day is in 2 years.
We have to fix a lot of problems before that especially regarding scaling and mining centralisation.
I dont want to wake up one day seeing communist china nationalizing all mining farms.

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

im a superbull - but thats even too much for me:

That's what some people said in here when I predicted 10000 by the end of this year and 80000 by the end of next year, and look where we are now.

Mate, 1000 to 18.000 is a bit much different then 18.000 to 1 million

If it is true that only 0,01% of the population today uses bitcoin, and the price is almost 20000 USD, imagine the price when 50% of the population uses bitcoin. We are talking several hundred million dollars, maybe even in the range of a billion. One million will be reached within two years at this rate.

im a superbull - but thats even too much for me:

That's what some people said in here when I predicted 10000 by the end of this year and 80000 by the end of next year, and look where we are now.

Yeah, the human brain is not very good at understanding big numbers. $100-$10,000 seems doable but $10,000 to $1,000,000 seems impossible. That's why they created the stock split to keep people buying with astronomical stock prices.

I dont think you understand how much fiat money has to be put into btc for a 1 million valuation.

[Ludwig Von]

Raoul posted the full story today, an absolutely must read for all... .

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/12/bitcoin-doesnt-exist-the-full-story/

This is truly awesome. Very well written!

Didn't read it all yet, but the quote and it's conclusions "So money at its most austere is simply a promise" was kind of bullshit.  The real crux of the situation is that money is an imaginary or social construct humans use to try and gain leverage over one another, and so the further you abstract human trade away from barter, the bigger an immoral scam you have created.  THIS is why only physical commodity currencies can be money, whether it's gold, silver, oil, wheat, or what have you.  Anything that does not have some type of roots in the real world is a flat out scam because you're inherently trying to con other humans into accepting something of no value for a real world good of value.

Wether I borrow your fishing net with the promise to give you a fish, or a gram of gold or a satoshi, or a cent, it all remains the same : a promise that I will reward you for doing something for me. Money is  a means to facilitate barter. It only goes wrong when the facilitator is manipulated. And that is equally true for fiat or gold(look at the gold markets, it is laughable). So maybe you make the right point but are as misguided by the fiat scam as so many are. (we all are to some extend).