Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jojo69]

Oh noes.



edit: Is my image not showing? (My bitcoins are only worth what they were worth yesterday.)

well look what the cat dragged in

did someone have a little sleepover?

[1715594633]

1715594633

[TERA2]

I dont see images either. I posted a pic of a robotic bear.

[realr0ach]

CME dragging down futures out of the gate.

Bleh.

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin.html

So tell me, if both metals and bitcoin are rigged by the CME, what is the purpose of holding bitcoin when they can only naked short metals to cost of production but they can short bitcoin to zero? Bitcoin's cost of production is not based on an external variable like metals (the price of oil), but entirely recursive and based on it's own demand via hash rate.  Meaning if the cost of production of bitcoin is $3000 and you naked short it to $1000, all the miners will be forced to turn off, lowering the cost of production even further in a downward spiraling feedback loop while the same amount of bitcoins still hits the market in the form of mined reward or transaction fees.

If the bankers short metals below cost of production, the miners shut down and silver and gold stops entering the market creating a shortage.  Thus shorting below cost of production in metals is counterintuitive to price suppression, while it's beneficial to short below cost of production to suppress price in bitcoin.  Can you say checkmate?

[Rosewater Foundation]

Random thought. Do you think if we had a more sophisticated name less people would have thought it was a scam and took it seriously? And consequently we might not have got cheap coins? Like if it was a cool acronym for decentralized permissionless censorship-resistant cryptographically-secure asset, more people would have got the idea? I mean technically there are no actual coins.

Alternatively, if it had been called ScamWowMoneyButton, would it have made any kind of difference?

/random though

[d_eddie]

Can you say checkmate?

Checkmate.
We all know.
Crypto is done.
The corn is dead.
Blame on the Jews.
Decent summary eh?
So no need for you to repeat.
(That would be in a perfect world.)

[synamufafat]

With Direxion, people are probably going to get rekt with some inverse (bear) 3x (leverage) BTC fund though.  Probably going to break record for a listed ETF going to zero (or splitting).  

Also, it takes a while for crowds used to buy-low-sell-high and pump-and-dump in CB dominated inflationary world to figure out that with deflationary currency, it's all pump-and-pump and sell-high-and-buyback-even-higher as people hoard it to oblivion.

Direxion 3x BTC bullish and inverse funds would be fun. LOL.

For those keeping track, this is how long it has taken the cryptocurrency to cross the key psychological levels:

    $0000 - $1000: 1789 days
    $1000- $2000: 1271 days
    $2000- $3000: 23 days
    $3000- $4000: 62 days
    $4000- $5000: 61 days
    $5000- $6000: 8 days
    $6000- $7000: 13 days
    $7000- $8000: 14 days
    $8000- $9000: 9 days
    $9000-$10000: 2 days
    $10000-$11000: 1 day
    $11000-$12000: 6 days
    $12000-$13000: 17 hours
    $13000-$14000: 4 hours
    $14000-$15000: 10 hours
    $15000-$16000: 5 hours
    $16000-$17000: 2 hours
    $17000-$18000: 10 minutes
    $18000-$19000: 3 minutes


source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-07/bitcoin-blasts-through-15000?page=18

So $20k is way behind schedule? HURRY!

Naw, $19k is the maximum in this year 

[d_eddie]

Random thought. Do you think if we had a more sophisticated name less people would have thought it was a scam and took it seriously? And consequently we might not have got cheap coins? Like if it was a cool acronym for decentralized permissionless censorship-resistant cryptographically-secure asset, more people would have got the idea? I mean technically there are no actual coins.

Alternatively, if it had been called ScamWowMoneyButton, would it have made any kind of difference?

/random though

Would a rose smell less sweeeeet by any other name?
I think 'Sweetcorn' would have been cooler than DUTOV (Decentralized Uncensorable Transfer Of Value).

[svdleer]

Anoying bots

[realr0ach]

Random thought. Do you think if we had a more sophisticated name less people would have thought it was a scam and took it seriously?

In case you didn't realize the problem bitcoin attempts to solve but fails anyway, allow me to demonstrate:

The name is fine, it's just that bitcoin attempts to solve an unsolvable problem (decentralization), so it's a miracle it's fooled as many people as it has.  The way it managed to fool so many people is by claiming it can be constantly upgraded, so even if it's blatantly centralized to the common idiot right now, they make believe some change in the future by someone smarter than they are will fix it.  If you have a sufficiently high enough IQ (you don't need to be a genius), you can already sort through all the possible ways such a system can be changed and realize it's not possible to fix.

For example, if you can just put a miner on cruise control and collect payments from it while not actually doing any type of work yourself, this works out to be roughly the same thing as collecting interest and we all know how compound interest spirals out of control.  So you can then parlay all your interest into continuous expansion until complete monopoly (which is what many of these miners have done).  To prevent this compound interest effect, you would need to do something like require miners to do physical labor (solve captchas) for the block reward so they can't continuously expand.

The problem you encounter here is that...you can create bots to solve the captchas for you, and you're right back to square one again and have fixed nothing.  The system always turns into slum lords collecting money for nothing through a monopoly.

[windjc]

blah blah blah blah blah

^^^ This person dedicates literally hours a day, hundreds of hours a month and thousands of hours a year discussing a topic that he despises. Now, I ask you, what kind of a person would do this and what kind of a life outside of this forum might such a person have?

Now, if this is the type of life or person you would like to be, then you should listen to everything he says. Because, we become who we listen to.

Of course that is why I have him on ignore.

[Rosewater Foundation]

Random thought. Do you think if we had a more sophisticated name less people would have thought it was a scam and took it seriously? And consequently we might not have got cheap coins? Like if it was a cool acronym for decentralized permissionless censorship-resistant cryptographically-secure asset, more people would have got the idea? I mean technically there are no actual coins.

Alternatively, if it had been called ScamWowMoneyButton, would it have made any kind of difference?

/random though

Would a rose smell less sweeeeet by any other name?
I think 'Sweetcorn' would have been cooler than DUTOV (Decentralized Uncensorable Transfer Of Value).

The Shitwater Foundation wouldn't work, for example. But that's probably a bad example.

[HairyMaclairy]

blah blah blah blah blah

^^^ This person dedicates literally hours a day, hundreds of hours a month and thousands of hours a year discussing a topic that he despises. Now, I ask you, what kind of a person would do this and what kind of a life outside of this forum might such a person have?

Now, if this is the type of life or person you would like to be, then you should listen to everything he says. Because, we become who we listen to.

Of course that is why I have him on ignore.

Everyone talks their book.  He is obviously a trader that got caught on the wrong side of a rocket candle and has been trying to talk the price down ever since.

[fabiorem]

Novogratz said there will be a sell-off at some point, but that we are very far from it.

So, thats what bitcoin is, just a speculative asset to increase fiat money. Digital currency? Just a dream.

I'm day-dreaming when I think bitcoin would just replace fiat currency one day, and governments would bow down to it, with central banks losing their power over peoples money. Its just a dream. People are in for profits, and only that. When we reach 2013 bubble levels, then there will be this massive sell-off, and we will be back to fiat, to taxes, to government control. Thats it.

[Rosewater Foundation]

I've got a collection of ignored users^^like you wouldn't believe. It's why I talk to myself half the time

[d_eddie]

Wow, some juicy details add a thrilling gust of fresh air to your lines! This deserves a quasi-normal response.

For example, if you can just put a miner on cruise control and collect payments from it while not actually doing any type of work yourself, this works out to be roughly the same thing as collecting interest and we all know how compound interest spirals out of control.  So you can then parlay all your interest into continuous expansion until complete monopoly (which is what many of these miners have done).

Mining has eventual low, uniform profit per unit of (hardware $  + energy $). Both hardware and energy markets are seriously skewed, that's what allows monopolies. Once the hardware market levels out, the energy market will find its way with optimal offshore relocations of the actual farms. Or solar power, you can figure it out probably.

To prevent this compound interest effect, you would need to do something like require miners to do physical labor (solve captchas) for the block reward so they can't continuously expand.
The problem you encounter here is that...you can create bots to solve the captchas for you, and you're right back to square one again and have fixed nothing.  The system always turns into slum lords collecting money for nothing through a monopoly.

No, Roach. Some details are still off. Bots won't cut the mustard. Captchas are for humans, you see. In my version, once a block captcha is flunked, the nodes reject that particular block nonce forever, so the slum lord will need real human slaves to make sure no (hardware $ + energy $) is lost to the feeble competition.

Come on, elaborate a little better. The slaves could be found... where could the average Jew find some decent slaves that more or less work without dying on you after a few months?

[jojo69]

Novogratz said there will be a sell-off at some point, but that we are very far from it.

So, thats what bitcoin is, just a speculative asset to increase fiat money. Digital currency? Just a dream.

I'm day-dreaming when I think bitcoin would just replace fiat currency one day, and governments would bow down to it, with central banks losing their power over peoples money. Its just a dream. People are in for profits, and only that. When we reach 2013 bubble levels, then there will be this massive sell-off, and we will be back to fiat, to taxes, to government control. Thats it.

nah, plenty of us old school ideological hodlers here

inflationary fiat fedbux or an actual store of value, humanity has finally been given the choice, Gresham's law will dictate the outcome

[d_eddie]

blah blah blah blah blah

^^^ This person dedicates literally hours a day, hundreds of hours a month and thousands of hours a year discussing a topic that he despises. Now, I ask you, what kind of a person would do this and what kind of a life outside of this forum might such a person have?

Now, if this is the type of life or person you would like to be, then you should listen to everything he says. Because, we become who we listen to.

I find his posts less annoying than some other member's. Besides, they're easy to skip on sight.

Of course that is why I have him on ignore.

I like to be reminded about the less lucky sometimes. It keeps my pride in check.

[Rosewater Foundation]

I dunno man, those seem like some pretty good lines.  What is that? 8 point brush in maroon with radiused ends?  Nice.

MOON!

[jojo69]

that's no moon

[HairyMaclairy]

 I’m not sure I want to go back up to 19,000. I don’t think I can handle the responsibility.   I’m feeling pretty comfortable here.