Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[mah87]

Bitcoin is now stable

STOP DREAMING , THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE FALL !!!

[fonzie]

Doge FTW

The only real choooo choooo

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc

[analytics]

Once a viable exchange comes online in the US, and governments are done cleaning up the illicit side of bitcoins (tumblers, localbitcoins unregistered users, drug/weapon trading sites, people who don't report taxes--they can find you now or later....its not worth it),  the price will skyrocket.

It's just a matter of time.   Campbx doesn't have a bank any longer at the moment, and CoinMKT is just getting started, Secondmarket is serving the affluent.......it's just a matter of time though before Bitcoin goes up after major illicit flows are slowed enough and regulated banks back the exchanges.   So I am a holder.   The monkeys like coindesk and kids who post here who trade on misleading media so they can make a dime shorting will fade.  The utility of cryptocurrency is just too high; the disruption has already started and can't be stopped.

All the fools who speak of bitcoin replacing centralized banking are simply, well, foolish.  It will never happen, but bitcoin has it's place as some fraction due to the utility in certain situations  (world wide standardized, fast+easy with simple addressses, no middle party, irreversible).   I bet we will see banks who have their own bitcoin layer "banks" on top of their banks as a way to keep that capital in-house, give their customers a way to get access to the good side of bitcoin transactions when they need it.  With traceable transactions supplied by having confirmed identities tied to addresses.  The only other option it seems banks have is to create their own cryptocurreny "coins" layer (eg is this what chase is doing?),  but that almost certainly seems doomed as it won't be a standard that works internationally and for everyone.

Personally I can't wait to see anonymous side of bitcoin get hacked away (tumblers, start to add social identities to wallets so people can trust each other and the governments are comfortable about taxes and what is being traded).  And its just a matter of time before these anonymous supporting people who are involved in bitcoin get weeded out; it's clear why they want anonymous and the gov is picking them off one by one as their hidden reasons for supporting it are exposed and they wind up in jail.   I won't be surprised too if we see some existing companies get strung up on charges around fraud for hedging customer assets and their own.  

[fonzie]

If it is no longer anonymous, and i can´t use it for money laundering or buyin stuff on black markets--- What good is this shit for

[spooderman]

Once a viable exchange comes online in the US, and governments are done cleaning up the illicit side of bitcoins (tumblers, localbitcoins unregistered users, drug/weapon trading sites, people who don't report taxes--they can find you now or later....its not worth it),  the price will skyrocket.

It's just a matter of time.   Campbx doesn't have a bank any longer at the moment, and CoinMKT is just getting started, Secondmarket is serving the affluent.......it's just a matter of time though before Bitcoin goes up after major illicit flows are slowed enough and regulated banks back the exchanges.   So I am a holder.   The monkeys like coindesk and kids who post here who trade on misleading media so they can make a dime shorting will fade.  The utility of cryptocurrency is just too high; the disruption has already started and can't be stopped.

All the fools who speak of bitcoin replacing centralized banking are simply, well, foolish.  It will never happen, but bitcoin has it's place as some fraction due to the utility in certain situations  (world wide standardized, fast+easy with simple addressses, no middle party, irreversible).   I bet we will see banks who have their own bitcoin layer "banks" on top of their banks as a way to keep that capital in-house, give their customers a way to get access to the good side of bitcoin transactions when they need it.  With traceable transactions supplied by having confirmed identities tied to addresses.  The only other option it seems banks have is to create their own cryptocurreny "coins" layer (eg is this what chase is doing?),  but that almost certainly seems doomed as it won't be a standard that works internationally and for everyone.

Personally I can't wait to see anonymous side of bitcoin get hacked away (tumblers, start to add social identities to wallets so people can trust each other and the governments are comfortable about taxes and what is being traded).  And its just a matter of time before these anonymous supporting people who are involved in bitcoin get weeded out; it's clear why they want anonymous and the gov is picking them off one by one as their hidden reasons for supporting it are exposed and they wind up in jail.   I won't be surprised too if we see some existing companies get strung up on charges around fraud for hedging customer assets and their own.  

yay government + 'murica = bitcoin finally usable. It has been useless up until now....

[manfred]

@fonzie
I know the weather in the UK is depressing but seriously this is not much of a life. Spending day in day out every day and night in speculation corner and waiting so desperately for the cheap coins which well never come.

[wpalczynski]

What you hope will happen to bitcoin goes against the very principles based on which the system was founded.

Once a viable exchange comes online in the US, and governments are done cleaning up the illicit side of bitcoins (tumblers, localbitcoins unregistered users, drug/weapon trading sites, people who don't report taxes--they can find you now or later....its not worth it),  the price will skyrocket.

It's just a matter of time.   Campbx doesn't have a bank any longer at the moment, and CoinMKT is just getting started, Secondmarket is serving the affluent.......it's just a matter of time though before Bitcoin goes up after major illicit flows are slowed enough and regulated banks back the exchanges.   So I am a holder.   The monkeys like coindesk and kids who post here who trade on misleading media so they can make a dime shorting will fade.  The utility of cryptocurrency is just too high; the disruption has already started and can't be stopped.

All the fools who speak of bitcoin replacing centralized banking are simply, well, foolish.  It will never happen, but bitcoin has it's place as some fraction due to the utility in certain situations  (world wide standardized, fast+easy with simple addressses, no middle party, irreversible).   I bet we will see banks who have their own bitcoin layer "banks" on top of their banks as a way to keep that capital in-house, give their customers a way to get access to the good side of bitcoin transactions when they need it.  With traceable transactions supplied by having confirmed identities tied to addresses.  The only other option it seems banks have is to create their own cryptocurreny "coins" layer (eg is this what chase is doing?),  but that almost certainly seems doomed as it won't be a standard that works internationally and for everyone.

Personally I can't wait to see anonymous side of bitcoin get hacked away (tumblers, start to add social identities to wallets so people can trust each other and the governments are comfortable about taxes and what is being traded).  And its just a matter of time before these anonymous supporting people who are involved in bitcoin get weeded out; it's clear why they want anonymous and the gov is picking them off one by one as their hidden reasons for supporting it are exposed and they wind up in jail.   I won't be surprised too if we see some existing companies get strung up on charges around fraud for hedging customer assets and their own.  

[fonzie]

@fonzie
I know the weather in the UK is depressing but seriously this is not much of a life. Spending day in day out every day and night in speculation corner and waiting so desperately for the cheap coins which well never come.

 

I´m just waitin to close my shorts. I´m not interested in buying in the next time.
And you´re right, it really sucks big time hangin around in front of the charts or in here, but what shall i do?

[analytics]

@wpalczynski

I don't think it necessarily goes against it.  Most parts of what I said are in agreement with the original concept in terms of features, but the anonymous part is the exception.  There will always be the illicit and anonymous side, just like cash has this too.

I'm simply talking about a layer on top that adds identity and trust.  Banks and users can choose to only deal with addresses that are "clean" with some identity tied to it.  That's the only way banks will get involved and supply the missing fiat exchange part.  There is no world outside of the illicit without that. 

People who want to use it for anonymous can still do that by using tor and tumblers etc, as long as they stay in bitcoin.  There are some viable reasons for having anonymous transactions.  I'm just not in support of the ones that are about illicit uses.

[aminorex]

Once a viable exchange comes online in the US

There are perfectly viable exchanges available on the internet today, equally accessible and usable from any part of the globe.  

and governments are done cleaning up the illicit side of bitcoins (tumblers, localbitcoins unregistered users, drug/weapon trading sites, people who don't report taxes--they can find you now or later....its not worth it),  the price will skyrocket.

The normalcy bias is strong with this one!

I agree that the price would rise if it were possible for the government to assert sufficient control over Bitcoin to destroy all forms of human freedom, and therefore was pleased to approve of it.   That will not, however, happen, nor is it necessary in order for Bitcoin to rise in value.  
The fiat system is going to collapse very, very soon.  It is mathematically inevitable that debt-based monetary systems will explode.  It does not require any particular economic theory or political ideology to recognize this, merely mathematical literacy.  The only question is when, and the conditions are ripe even now.  Central banks globally conducting coordinated devaluation is a last-ditch, hail-mary attempt to stave off the inevitable.  Their toolkit is empty.

Privacy, freedom, and human dignity will be restored, and the role of the nation-state in world history will diminish.  The nation-state is a product of industrialized warfare.  But just as the rust-belt industries decayed and receded in importance due to changes in the technological, material machinery of society, so too will the nature of warfare change, and the nation-states decline.  The state monopoly on violence is ending.  In a very short time, it will be possible for any intelligent, literate person with an Internet connection to create a controlled nuclear fusion criticality using cheap and common materials.  Today, only a small number of persons are aware of this technology, but within a few years it will be readily available.  When this happens, mass enslavement will no longer be feasible.  The political economy will transform.  

Whether it is desirable or undesirable is certainly a topic of debate, but regardless of your view, it would be wise to be prepared for inevitabilities.  The prospects of being caught on the wrong side of history are quite dismal.

[analytics]

@aminorex

There are exchanges and I use them.  But they all feel at least somewhat dubious right now, at least if you are a US citizen.

1.  Bitstamp....very good reputation, but there are few who feel really good about a bank in Slovenia.  .  US banks are reluctant to send there, but it has become easier.  I did it, but I have been very nervous each day I left any balance there.  Bank could collapse, fraud on wallets without anyone to guarantee my money/balances.
2.   btc-e, huobi.   I can't use it since it's in China (at least I can't convert to USD), and I would never trust any company in China presently.  Huobi has already been shown to be faking data as well.
3.  Coinbase isn't an exchange but comes close.  However, really poor customer service, poor customer experience unless you are doing very small volumes  and they seem to be hedging customer transactions.  I had 12 out of 15 transactions canceled, most at the last minute after a week of waiting, with a paper loss of around 12K.  I just don't trust them right now anymore and stopped using them.   I also know their engineering on the backend to be highly suspect; maybe that is improving.   But MongoDB, seriously???  A transactional, financial system on a schemaless database.
4.  CampxBx has lost their bank for now.
5.  Gox....don't need to say anything here
6.  Waiting to see what CoinMKT can do.
7.  SecondMarket feels the most sane/robust to me, but they are just beginning.
8..  Localbitcoins.... given recent news I would rate this as highly suspect

I'm hoping for US folks that a US bank or exchange creates a bitcoin layer on top of their existing infra.  At some point they will realize they can't fight the positive of standardized crypto, and I expect to see them buy a company or make their own btc bank/exchange, or partner.  Coinbase is unlikely to get bought out I expect due to the poor engineering and customer experience.

[analytics]

Once a viable exchange comes online in the US

There are perfectly viable exchanges available on the internet today, equally accessible and usable from any part of the globe.  

and governments are done cleaning up the illicit side of bitcoins (tumblers, localbitcoins unregistered users, drug/weapon trading sites, people who don't report taxes--they can find you now or later....its not worth it),  the price will skyrocket.

The normalcy bias is strong with this one!

I agree that the price would rise if it were possible for the government to assert sufficient control over Bitcoin to destroy all forms of human freedom, and therefore was pleased to approve of it.   That will not, however, happen, nor is it necessary in order for Bitcoin to rise in value.  
The fiat system is going to collapse very, very soon.  It is mathematically inevitable that debt-based monetary systems will explode.  It does not require any particular economic theory or political ideology to recognize this, merely mathematical literacy.  The only question is when, and the conditions are ripe even now.  Central banks globally conducting coordinated devaluation is a last-ditch, hail-mary attempt to stave off the inevitable.  Their toolkit is empty.

Privacy, freedom, and human dignity will be restored, and the role of the nation-state in world history will diminish.  The nation-state is a product of industrialized warfare.  But just as the rust-belt industries decayed and receded in importance due to changes in the technological, material machinery of society, so too will the nature of warfare change, and the nation-states decline.  The state monopoly on violence is ending.  In a very short time, it will be possible for any intelligent, literate person with an Internet connection to create a controlled nuclear fusion criticality using cheap and common materials.  Today, only a small number of persons are aware of this technology, but within a few years it will be readily available.  When this happens, mass enslavement will no longer be feasible.  The political economy will transform.  

Whether it is desirable or undesirable is certainly a topic of debate, but regardless of your view, it would be wise to be prepared for inevitabilities.  The prospects of being caught on the wrong side of history are quite dismal.

Doom and gloom and promises of mathematical models with clear proof of the banks demise?  This is what holds bitcoin back; espousing ridiculous theories as fact. Just f$%%#ing silly.  There is no world in our lifetime that will see that.  Working against the positive sides of existing systems will just hold bitcoin back.   We need to figure out how to integrate it into the existing systems.   Irreversible transactions are not the panacea for everything.   There are more reasons to have reversible, but there are a huge number of remaining reasons to have irreversible with an international standard, or have a decentralized processing and storage.   The current systems won't go away, but we can improve them.  I'm a big fan of integration, and I think there is no other viable path short of WWIII.

[deeplink]

... and governments are done cleaning up the illicit side of bitcoins (tumblers, localbitcoins unregistered users, drug/weapon trading sites, people who don't report taxes--they can find you now or later....its not worth it) ...

Not sure if serious

[flynn]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

We are at stage III

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Banks and users can choose to only deal with addresses that are "clean" with some identity tied to it.

When this happens, people will make money by offering tainting services - 'fuck you, boss, all the coins are tainted'.

Then block-reward coins will have a different values then circulated coins.  

Then only non-circulated coins will be fungible among licensees.

Then either the protocol is changed to taint coins at creation, or Bitcoin shrivels to niche status.

Creating a higher purity standard for cryptocurrency vs cash is a tactic of the enemy.

[deeplink]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

We are at stage III

Maybe there is another stage between fighting and winning:
then they try to integrate you


I like this one too (posted by someone on this forum some time ago)

First they laugh at you, then they get mad at you, pretty soon they go silent, then they start agreeing with you, finally they say they were right all along.

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

This is what holds bitcoin back; espousing ridiculous theories as fact.

The sentence above is self-evident, self-referential, circular, and meta, all simultaneously.  A very efficient use of eleven words.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

It is mathematically inevitable that debt-based monetary systems will explode.  It does not require any particular economic theory or political ideology to recognize this, merely mathematical literacy.

Those be some strong claims.  Doubts about them, I have.
I am presuming you are talking about the "where does the money come from to pay the interest"-situation.

[aminorex]

Doom and gloom and promises of mathematical models with clear proof of the banks demise? 

You see the future as doom and gloom.  I see it as a glimmer of hope.  The tide is turning.

This is what holds bitcoin back; espousing ridiculous theories as fact. Just f$%%#ing silly. 

Watching your life fall apart for failure to prepare for the inevitable will not cause me to feel any pity.  I only hope you have no children.

Working against the positive sides of existing systems will just hold bitcoin back.  We need to figure out how to integrate it into the existing systems.

We need to route around the corruption, brutality, and totalitarian dominance assumed by traitors, the enemies of humanity.

[analytics]

... and governments are done cleaning up the illicit side of bitcoins (tumblers, localbitcoins unregistered users, drug/weapon trading sites, people who don't report taxes--they can find you now or later....its not worth it) ...

Not sure if serious

I'm serious.   Obviously these won't go away.  They will always exist.   But once the majority use of bitcoin is not seen as being based on illicit/illegal reasons, then it can be more broadly accepted.   For those who just want a coin to trade drugs, weapons or to hide money, they will always find a way to do it, whether its cash, bitcoin or some other coin,   but until the vast majority of bitcoin use is seen as legal and valuable, it can't really grow I think.   Most use probably is already legal, but the swarm of news for the last year is heavily biased towards not (Coindesk who is probably shorting doesn't help either).