Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Dragonkiller]

Jorge how do you suggest we deal with current corruption within the financial industries.

Why should I have an answer better than anyone else's? 

But since you ask:  I think any solution has to be through politics.  I am not a libertarian; I believe that getting rid of banks and governments is neither possible nor desirable, and instead we must fight to have good governments and tightly regulated banks with strictly limited powers.

People must fight in the streets if necessary to end the plutocracy (une dollar, one vote) that has dominated the world, and restore democracy (one man, one vote).  I still cannot believe that the people of Italy and Greece, for example, could let the banks appoint governments which put the banks' profits above the very life of their citizens.   

It will not be an easy fight.  Along the way, the people in every country must somehow get rid of corporate media, and wrestle control of the internet away from big corporations, which will always prefer and support plutocracy over democracy.

We have been trying that for years; it doesn't work.

You are right; governments, banks and corporate media are not going anywhere but they will never change unless they are forced to - not by protests and demonstrations which achieve nothing but by innovation that threatens their very existence.

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[manfred]

Put your money where your mouth is.  

Is that for me?  

My mouth says that bitcoin may crash to zero without warning; and, while it is fun playing the prophet, there is no way to assign probabilities to any predictions, not even to "it will crash to zero tomorrow" or "one day it will be worth more than 1000 US$".

So my money is indeed where my mouth is -- well away from bitcoin...

For Bitcoin to crash to zero a fundamental flaw in the code would have to be found or SHA-2 broken. For the later there are backup coins with Scrypt or SHA-3. Only other way, if confirmed over-unity is archived, which would make Gold worthless too.
All are extremely unlikely.

Edit; It may crash to zero in a few hundred years time

[deeplink]

Jorge how do you suggest we deal with current corruption within the financial industries.

Why should I have an answer better than anyone else's?  

But since you ask:  I think any solution has to be through politics.  I am not a libertarian; I believe that getting rid of banks and governments is neither possible nor desirable, and instead we must fight to have good governments and tightly regulated banks with strictly limited powers.

People must fight in the streets if necessary to end the plutocracy (une dollar, one vote) that has dominated the world, and restore democracy (one man, one vote).  I still cannot believe that the people of Italy and Greece, for example, could let the banks appoint governments which put the banks' profits above the very life of their citizens.  

It will not be an easy fight.  Along the way, the people in every country must somehow get rid of corporate media, and wrestle control of the internet away from big corporations, which will always prefer and support plutocracy over democracy.

Apart from whether or not you believe democracy is a moral way to organize society, it has and will always slide back to a pathocracy masquerading as a democracy.

[biafore]

Can someone who remembers the old labcoin scam threads post a time clock counting down till the Mt. Gox news update

[keithers]

Put your money where your mouth is.  

Is that for me?  

My mouth says that bitcoin may crash to zero without warning; and, while it is fun playing the prophet, there is no way to assign probabilities to any predictions, not even to "it will crash to zero tomorrow" or "one day it will be worth more than 1000 US$".

So my money is indeed where my mouth is -- well away from bitcoin...

For Bitcoin to crash to zero a fundamental flaw in the code would have to be found or SHA-2 broken. For the later there are backup coins with Scrypt or SHA-3. Only other way, if confirmed over-unity is archived, which would make Gold worthless too.
All are extremely unlikely.

The above is correct, bitcoin may drop again several times, and potentially more significantly many times in the future, but the likelihood of it dropping to zero is almost non-existent.

[fonzie]

More Bitcoin ATM´s about to arrive in Canada:

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/canada-s-first-crack-pipe-vending-machines-come-to-vancouver-1.1676803

[mah87]

Illegal and immoral are not the same thing.

Whatever you try to force onto peaceful people using the violence and coercion of the state may be legal, but it isn't moral.

On this point, I am with you and aminorex.  I'm not in support of gov. watchdogging everyone. We should be able to have some anonymous transfers; there are good reasons and there should remain ways to do it.   But being realistic, I don't see how bitcoin can become bigger than it is without some integration and sacrifice on some points.

Fair enough if you don't see it (yet).

I agree that maybe Bitcoin will integrate with organised crime (governments and banks) or sacrifice its original goals. Who knows. But other technologies will take over within months and grow even bigger than Bitcoin.

True. You should monitor Ripple very closely.

[JorgeStolfi]

For Bitcoin to crash to zero a fundamental flaw in the code would have to be found or SHA-2 broken.

SHA-2 being broken is always a possibility.  Keep in mind that all public crypto schemes rely on a conjecture
for which there is no compelling theoretical argument or empirical evidence,

And there are many other developments that could make bitcoins worthless, for example

* The US government bans crypto-currencies.
* Everybody chooses to use Dogecoin instead of Bitcoin
* The Bitcoin blockchain stops being maintained because
** Mining becomes unprofitable
** Other crypto-coins become more profitable to mine
** It got all messed up and the network cannot agree on the fix

and so on.  Surely there are many more possible disasters no one has thought of.  (One year ago crypto-currencies were believed to be untraceable and un-seizeable, for example.)  That is why one cannot put a probability on "price will crash to zero"...

The nuclear industry once sponsored a very thorough safety study that examined all the ways in which a nuclear plant could possibly fail, and concluded that, assuming several hundred operating reactors, there might be one partial meltdown every century or so.  That was before Three Mile Island, of course.  According to the principles of that study,  three separate reactors melting down down at the same time would be less likely than a meteorite killing Santa Claus; and the possibility that an unloaded reactor could explode and become a major nuclear risk was not even considered.

NASA too once sponsored a very detailed study of the Space Shuttle's safety.  It concluded that the chances of a total loss were about 1 every 100,000 launches.  The actual rate turned out to be 1 every 50 launches.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I like how we are going back to discussing society etc. instead of randomnly shouting out  "HODL!".  There is hope for us yet  .
Big swings in your capital and talking about it is fun and all, but only speaking about bulls and bears gets boring after a while  .

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[yrtrnc]

Anyone have the foggiest as to when Mt hoax will make their historical announcement?

[fonzie]

Next monday.

[bassclef]

For Bitcoin to crash to zero a fundamental flaw in the code would have to be found or SHA-2 broken.

SHA-2 being broken is always a possibility.  Keep in mind that all public crypto schemes rely on a conjecture
for which there is no compelling theoretical argument or empirical evidence,

And there are many other developments that could make bitcoins worthless, for example

* The US government bans crypto-currencies.
* Everybody chooses to use Dogecoin instead of Bitcoin
* The Bitcoin blockchain stops being maintained because
** Mining becomes unprofitable
** Other crypto-coins become more profitable to mine
** It got all messed up and the network cannot agree on the fix

and so on.  Surely there are many more possible disasters no one has thought of.  (One year ago crypto-currencies were believed to be untraceable and un-seizeable, for example.)  That is why one cannot put a probability on "price will crash to zero"...

The nuclear industry once sponsored a very thorough safety study that examined all the ways in which a nuclear plant could possibly fail, and concluded that, assuming several hundred operating reactors, there might be one partial meltdown every century or so.  That was before Three Mile Island, of course.  According to the principles of that study,  three separate reactors melting down down at the same time would be less likely than a meteorite killing Santa Claus; and the possibility that an unloaded reactor could explode and become a major nuclear risk was not even considered.

NASA too once sponsored a very detailed study of the Space Shuttle's safety.  It concluded that the chances of a total loss were about 1 every 100,000 launches.  The actual rate turned out to be 1 every 50 launches.

As your interest in Bitcoin is purely academic and you presumably don't own any bitcoins, one has to wonder why the majority of your posts are in a forum thread consisting of mostly un-academic discussion between bitcoin owners.

To use an American saying, don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

[adamstgBit]

Anyone have the foggiest as to when Mt hoax will make their historical announcement?

its 8:10AM in japan

i wouldn't expect the update till late afternoon

[yrtrnc]

Next monday.

Next Monday after the next? Or next Monday after the next and before the next Monday after the next next?

[pdawg]

Switching my charts over to bitstamp pricing.  Gox is goxxed.

[ErisDiscordia]

And there are many other developments that could make bitcoins worthless, for example

* The US government bans crypto-currencies.

US-centric much? Nowadays a government banning something is more likely to spark interest than create fear and obedient avoidance. Hurting the price of Bitcoin? Sure would do. Destroying it? Not by a long shot.

* Everybody chooses to use Dogecoin instead of Bitcoin

sort of like today Dogecoin and Litecoin have no value because Bitcoin is the most popular?

I'm liking the more serious discussion around here. Interesting to note, that there seems to be a correlation between people not being willing to describe themselves as anarchists/libertarians and their faith in the viability and effectiveness of the political process to effect meaningful positive change.

[the_sunship]

Next monday.

Next Monday after the next? Or next Monday after the next and before the next Monday after the next next?

Yep, that one. Could also be on Tuesday

[aminorex]

SHA-2 being broken is always a possibility.  Keep in mind that all public crypto schemes rely on a conjecture
for which there is no compelling theoretical argument or empirical evidence,

breaking the hash is not adeuate.  any responsible party who could unlock coins would report this privately so that the prrotocol could change crypto.

And there are many other developments that could make bitcoins worthless, for example

* The US government bans crypto-currencies.

also not adequate.  and probably suicidal.

* Everybody chooses to use Dogecoin instead of Bitcoin

now you are raving.  there is something seriously wrong with your mind.

* The Bitcoin blockchain stops being maintained because
** Mining becomes unprofitable
** Other crypto-coins become more profitable to mine
** It got all messed up and the network cannot agree on the fix

none of theseare adequate.   they all have simple fixes and an  army of motivated technicians to resolve them.

and so on.  Surely there are many more possible disasters no one has thought of.  (One year ago crypto-currencies were believed to be untraceable and un-seizeable, for example.) 

this is simply incorrect. anyone who believed so was too ignorant to count.

[yrtrnc]

America would not ban bitcoin. They would make life hell for people who owned it, sold it or bought it. But highly unlikely. Right now America is looking for a way to use bitcoin to its advantage. China does not like it because it cannot control it but cannot do much about it.

 If all goes well we will see widespread adoption at least in the western world this year. Prices will have to increase to make room for the new players, the big players. The big question mark is google coin! Will it exist, what effects will it have. If there's anyone who can compete with the bitcoin network it's them.