Bitcoin Forum
September 09, 2024, 01:18:31 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: When will BTC get back above $70K:
7/14 - 0 (0%)
7/21 - 1 (1%)
7/28 - 11 (11.2%)
8/4 - 16 (16.3%)
8/11 - 7 (7.1%)
8/18 - 5 (5.1%)
8/25 - 7 (7.1%)
After August - 51 (52%)
Total Voters: 98

Pages: « 1 ... 24154 24155 24156 24157 24158 24159 24160 24161 24162 24163 24164 24165 24166 24167 24168 24169 24170 24171 24172 24173 24174 24175 24176 24177 24178 24179 24180 24181 24182 24183 24184 24185 24186 24187 24188 24189 24190 24191 24192 24193 24194 24195 24196 24197 24198 24199 24200 24201 24202 24203 [24204] 24205 24206 24207 24208 24209 24210 24211 24212 24213 24214 24215 24216 24217 24218 24219 24220 24221 24222 24223 24224 24225 24226 24227 24228 24229 24230 24231 24232 24233 24234 24235 24236 24237 24238 24239 24240 24241 24242 24243 24244 24245 24246 24247 24248 24249 24250 24251 24252 24253 24254 ... 33716 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26455311 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
mindrust
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3374
Merit: 2501


Payment Gateway Allows Recurring Payments


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 11:47:14 AM
Last edit: July 04, 2019, 12:36:44 PM by mindrust

Almost everything we have right now, including iPhones, the internet, tesla, google, led tv's, bmw etc etc all these exist because of inflation.

What really happens is, inflating FIAT currencies are stealing intellectual properties from those who invent them.

Overpopulation + inflation = cheap brain power for new inventions

If we were still living under the gold standard world population wouldn't be more than 2-3 billions rn probably but iPhone wouldn't exist neither.

While FIAT currencies  steal from people, people also have to steal from other people in order to survive, some call this "competition"

Mankind had to make that sacrifice. It seems the Tech is advanced enough.

Now Thanos (with yellow hair) seeks ways to delete that excessive population.
Wekkel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3108
Merit: 1531


yes


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 11:54:55 AM

Interesting proposition but is it true?
Gyrsur
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2856
Merit: 1520


Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 12:07:03 PM
Last edit: July 04, 2019, 01:21:32 PM by Gyrsur

There is also a highly likely scenario that Fort Knox and the Federal Reserve have a lot less gold in stock than is advertised.


And way more Tungsten than required.
Just ask the Germans (Gyrsur, are you around?) how long it took to take THEIR gold back to motherland.

EDIT:
Yes, tungsten filled Bullion is a real thing, even for expereinced traders: How A Manhattan Jeweler Wound Up With Gold Bars Filled With Tungsten

I've checked when the discussion within the Gov startet to bring home all German Gold (second largest Gold reserve worldwide after United States of America) and it was in 2012. over 50% ALL of the German Gold was at this time in US (New York), UK (London) and France (Paris). Paris is emptied now but I dont know exactely about  London. And our friends in America disagreed about to inspect the Gold Reserve of the German Gold in New York.  Grin Grin but public discussions about that in the German press were suppressed.

EDIT: the plan was changed somehow to "not to bring all the German Gold back". Paris yes fully. New York some Gold and London nothing brought back.

https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.handelsblatt.com%2Ffinanzen%2Fgeldpolitik%2Fbundesbank-warum-das-gold-ueberhaupt-im-ausland-lagert%2F11151440-2.html

Quote
During the Cold War, it was quite intentional to keep German gold "west of the Rhine" and as far as possible outside the country's borders.  Since the introduction of the euro on both sides of the Rhine, at least for the location of Paris, there is no longer the argument that the gold stored there can be exchanged for foreign currency in a crisis situation. Therefore, this storage location is to be dissolved in the coming years.

That does not apply to New York and London.  As a result, only 300 out of more than 1,500 tonnes of gold are shipped from the United States to Germany, while the 35,640 bars in London remain unaffected.  There are good reasons for this, as Thiele emphasizes: "Gold can be loaned in the event of a crisis or exchanged for another currency.  Therefore, part of the gold remains in the deposits in New York and London."

EDIT2: FT article and also the article above are to calm the ordinary people. speaking the truth in Bitcoin terminology: "Your Keys, Your Bitcoin. Not Your Keys, Not Your Bitcoin"
rdbase
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2996
Merit: 1557


Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 12:27:46 PM
Last edit: July 04, 2019, 01:17:24 PM by rdbase

https://medium.com/coinmonks/bitcoins-bull-run-this-is-what-s-different-compared-to-2017-28d239cd7256

Main and only points to read:

1. Retail vs institutional money
2. Geopolitics - Big game
3. facebook
You cant forget about the usual tether printing of billions to pump the price which happens every time there is a bull run. Roll Eyes
Looks like china pumped the price past $12k last night despite americains being too busy to trade their bitcoins.
Shooting own rockets to the moon. Grin
ivomm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1880
Merit: 3046


All good things to those who wait


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 12:37:09 PM

Funny video  Grin
https://www.facebook.com/DankCoinMemes/videos/2255367118108623/
realr0ach
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 311


#TheGoyimKnow


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 12:37:54 PM

You are wrong. The US monetary system (and the EU too) is debt based and made to work optimally under ever increasing debt.

No, I am not wrong.  Debt based fiat requires infinite growth to not collapse.  Without growth, interest rates would need to be set to zero, which is what we already have...and what Japan has had for a long time.  Interest rates are actually negative vs inflation.  Regardless, it's impossible for borrowing to not have a carrying cost.  Trying to nigger rig no carrying costs is just a temporary can kicking ploy that creates epic levels of malinvestment, which then implodes the system in a much bigger crash than having just left interest rates at their normal levels.

You then run into another problem.  The monetary unit literally is debt.  Interest generating loans and the currency itself (which also generates interest) are erroneously classified as assets and used as collateral when debt is always a liability and never collateral.  The prolonged 0% interest rate is guaranteed to create a malinvestment bubble which will bust and create massive deflation and collapse the system when it does from all crosslinked loans going bad because the banks cannot handle any form of deflation.

But back to the carrying cost aspect.  Fiat dollars are considered assets because if you have enough of them, they can (at some times) generate a lot of interest for you.  If interest rates are zero because growth is impossible due to peak working age demographic in every nation that matters, and peak energy use - because energy is what powers the economy and the world doesn't have infinite energy to give - then fiat is no longer an asset and then turns into a liability.  Once fiat is a liability, the world is guaranteed to go back to physical metals regardless in almost every aspect.
Wekkel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3108
Merit: 1531


yes


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 12:58:28 PM

You mean: ‘the world is guaranteed to move towards perfect money (e.g., Bitcoin)’.

Wilhelm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1265



View Profile
July 04, 2019, 01:15:24 PM

You are wrong. The US monetary system (and the EU too) is debt based and made to work optimally under ever increasing debt.

No, I am not wrong.  Debt based fiat requires infinite growth to not collapse.  Without growth, interest rates would need to be set to zero, which is what we already have...and what Japan has had for a long time.  Interest rates are actually negative vs inflation.  Regardless, it's impossible for borrowing to not have a carrying cost.  Trying to nigger rig no carrying costs is just a temporary can kicking ploy that creates epic levels of malinvestment, which then implodes the system in a much bigger crash than having just left interest rates at their normal levels.

You then run into another problem.  The monetary unit literally is debt.  Interest generating loans and the currency itself (which also generates interest) are erroneously classified as assets and used as collateral when debt is always a liability and never collateral.  The prolonged 0% interest rate is guaranteed to create a malinvestment bubble which will bust and create massive deflation and collapse the system when it does from all crosslinked loans going bad because the banks cannot handle any form of deflation.

But back to the carrying cost aspect.  Fiat dollars are considered assets because if you have enough of them, they can (at some times) generate a lot of interest for you.  If interest rates are zero because growth is impossible due to peak working age demographic in every nation that matters, and peak energy use - because energy is what powers the economy and the world doesn't have infinite energy to give - then fiat is no longer an asset and then turns into a liability.  Once fiat is a liability, the world is guaranteed to go back to physical metals regardless in almost every aspect.

I can mostly follow your reasoning.
In short "No inflation = no interest = less use of banks because no interest gains = less loans because of money short = downfall of economy".
An economy can only function if money moves around.
realr0ach
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 311


#TheGoyimKnow


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Last edit: July 04, 2019, 01:32:08 PM by realr0ach

You mean: ‘the world is guaranteed to move towards perfect money (e.g., Bitcoin)’.

You mean you're copying and pasting a Nick Szabo lie - the same scammer who was trying to fool people into buying useless Ethereum.  He would lie about Ethereum but he would never lie about Bitcoin, right?  No matter how many times you scammers lie and claim Bitcoin is "money", it's not.  It's a currency.  It even says so in the name "cryptocurrency" for ultra-slow people.  

To be money something has to be a physical commodity with a use case relevant to humans.  This is why things like bags of rice were used as money in the past.  If something is not a physical commodity with a use case for humans, all you have is a confidence game scam where the bottom can drop out at any second.  Bitcoin does not have any of the other traits required of money either like fungibility or durability.  

The purpose of money is to transfer value from the present to the future.  If a box of iodized salt has a shelf life of 5 years, it can accomplish that task because the durability is a fixed variable.  Things like silver and gold do it a lot better since the expiration date is practically infinite.  Bitcoin, on the other hand, being both a confidence game and a digital Rube Goldberg machine full of millions of potential black swans that can cause it to die at any second, has no durability whatsoever and is incapable of reliably transferring value to the future even as good as lowly table salt.  It also has built-in, rent seeking middlemen and doesn't remove counterparty risk.
Wekkel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3108
Merit: 1531


yes


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 01:31:40 PM

How long should reality tell you otherwise before you reconsider?

6 yrs?
60 yrs?
6,000 yrs?

Just a question.
realr0ach
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 311


#TheGoyimKnow


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 01:52:49 PM

^The fact you used the word "perfect" to describe Bitcoin when every single thing about it is completely arbitrary shows there is no bounds to your delusion.  Is Ethereum "perfect money" too?  What about Dogecoin?  Casinocoin?  Kanyecoin?  All 6 million digital shitcoins ever made?  They're all imaginary, Keynesian widget confidence game scams.  They're not money, they're not resources, they're currencies.  All currencies start at a value of zero and return there.  They're pump and dump scams by very definition, or just outright fraud.

Bitcoin could have just as easily been created with exponentially increasing inflation starting at 1 billion coins per day and increasing to 2 billion the next day.  Then is it still "perfect money"?  Or a halving...every day.  Your bumper sticker slogans from liars like Nick Szabo and Andreas Antonopolous do not hold up to any scrutiny.  And yes, I'm aware they and you are bastardizing this term from Nash for the Triffin Dilemma.  Physical metals already solve the Triffin Dilemma.
Wekkel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3108
Merit: 1531


yes


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 01:59:09 PM

In a sense, PMs are an illusion as well. That’s the thing you need to get around. I say perfect because it combines certain traits of good ‘money’ in a single system.

We never had better.
infofront (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 2793


Shitcoin Minimalist


View Profile
July 04, 2019, 02:19:49 PM

You are wrong. The US monetary system (and the EU too) is debt based and made to work optimally under ever increasing debt.

No, I am not wrong.  Debt based fiat requires infinite growth to not collapse.  Without growth, interest rates would need to be set to zero, which is what we already have...and what Japan has had for a long time.  Interest rates are actually negative vs inflation.  Regardless, it's impossible for borrowing to not have a carrying cost.  Trying to nigger rig no carrying costs is just a temporary can kicking ploy that creates epic levels of malinvestment, which then implodes the system in a much bigger crash than having just left interest rates at their normal levels.

You then run into another problem.  The monetary unit literally is debt.  Interest generating loans and the currency itself (which also generates interest) are erroneously classified as assets and used as collateral when debt is always a liability and never collateral.  The prolonged 0% interest rate is guaranteed to create a malinvestment bubble which will bust and create massive deflation and collapse the system when it does from all crosslinked loans going bad because the banks cannot handle any form of deflation.

But back to the carrying cost aspect.  Fiat dollars are considered assets because if you have enough of them, they can (at some times) generate a lot of interest for you.  If interest rates are zero because growth is impossible due to peak working age demographic in every nation that matters, and peak energy use - because energy is what powers the economy and the world doesn't have infinite energy to give - then fiat is no longer an asset and then turns into a liability.  Once fiat is a liability, the world is guaranteed to go back to physical metals regardless in almost every aspect.

There are other ways to keep the shell game going. Governments can eat some of the debt. We keep hearing from the communist presidential candidates that they want to cancel out all student loan debt, for example.
We saw during the great recession the government ate the debt of the ((bankers)). Then, the central banks eat the debt.
VB1001
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 2540


<<CypherPunkCat>>


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 02:34:32 PM

Pompliano 75% Confident Bitcoin Price is $100,000 by End of 2021

Quote
Anthony “Pomp” Pompliano — co-founder of crypto asset management firm Morgan Creek Digital Assets — predicts bitcoin (BTC) will hit $100,000 by the end of 2021.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/pompliano-75-confident-bitcoin-price-is-100-000-by-end-of-2021

https://twitter.com/APompliano/status/1146707848279150592

fillippone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2282
Merit: 16349


Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 02:36:53 PM

Pompliano 75% Confident Bitcoin Price is $100,000 by End of 2021

Quote
Anthony “Pomp” Pompliano — co-founder of crypto asset management firm Morgan Creek Digital Assets — predicts bitcoin (BTC) will hit $100,000 by the end of 2021.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/pompliano-75-confident-bitcoin-price-is-100-000-by-end-of-2021

https://twitter.com/APompliano/status/1146707848279150592


Being 75% Confident Bitcoin Price is $100,000 by End of 2021 equals being 100% Confident Bitcoin Price is $75,000 by End of 2021?
Serious question.
Asking for a friend.
VB1001
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 2540


<<CypherPunkCat>>


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 02:46:16 PM
Last edit: July 04, 2019, 02:59:01 PM by VB1001

^
I do not know, if we really go into parabolic mode, all these predictions can happen and it is possible before 2021 Wink

edit:


https://twitter.com/PeterLBrandt/status/1142271065936187392

Personally right now I have my doubts, but look at the graph, Bitcoin can do it.
Biodom
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3878
Merit: 4291



View Profile
July 04, 2019, 02:46:59 PM

Pompliano 75% Confident Bitcoin Price is $100,000 by End of 2021

Quote
Anthony “Pomp” Pompliano — co-founder of crypto asset management firm Morgan Creek Digital Assets — predicts bitcoin (BTC) will hit $100,000 by the end of 2021.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/pompliano-75-confident-bitcoin-price-is-100-000-by-end-of-2021

https://twitter.com/APompliano/status/1146707848279150592


Being 75% Confident Bitcoin Price is $100,000 by End of 2021 equals being 100% Confident Bitcoin Price is $75,000 by End of 2021?
Serious question.
Asking for a friend.


No. it does not.
If someone like statistics, mic's Q3 game median is at about 17.7K right now.
Wisdom of the crowds?
rdbase
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2996
Merit: 1557


Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 02:56:15 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

So these are not just futures but it will allow them to settle in physical bitcoin?
This would mean it is no longer just a bet on the price of bitcoin but it is actually a buy and sell of it.
https://www.coindesk.com/td-ameritrade-backed-erisx-gets-green-light-to-settle-futures-in-bitcoin

Some have a difficult time trying to grasp the concept of what they are trying to do.
Until now a physical settlement has not been allowed because the cftc was not convinced any wall street firm could hold on to bitcoin safely within these so called custodial services.  Hence this is another move forward on the development of the bitcoin infrastructure and ecosystem.
d_eddie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2618
Merit: 3414



View Profile
July 04, 2019, 03:02:44 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), rdbase (1)

So these are not just futures but it will allow them to settle in physical bitcoin?
This would mean it is no longer just a bet on the price of bitcoin but it is actually a buy and sell of it.
https://www.coindesk.com/td-ameritrade-backed-erisx-gets-green-light-to-settle-futures-in-bitcoin

Some have a difficult time trying to grasp the concept of what they are trying to do.
Until now a physical settlement has not been allowed because the cftc was not convinced any wall street firm could hold on to bitcoin safely within these so called custodial services.  Hence this is another move forward on the development of the bitcoin infrastructure and ecosystem.
Indeed if settling in bitcoin, it is necessary that both parts hold as much physical bitcoin as necessary. Otherwise, with sufficient volatility, insolvency will ensue. That's one of the reasons I think in-kind ETFs and derivatives are medium term bullish AF.
fillippone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2282
Merit: 16349


Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23


View Profile WWW
July 04, 2019, 03:10:58 PM

So these are not just futures but it will allow them to settle in physical bitcoin?
This would mean it is no longer just a bet on the price of bitcoin but it is actually a buy and sell of it.
https://www.coindesk.com/td-ameritrade-backed-erisx-gets-green-light-to-settle-futures-in-bitcoin

Some have a difficult time trying to grasp the concept of what they are trying to do.
Until now a physical settlement has not been allowed because the cftc was not convinced any wall street firm could hold on to bitcoin safely within these so called custodial services.  Hence this is another move forward on the development of the bitcoin infrastructure and ecosystem.
Indeed if settling in bitcoin, it is necessary that both parts hold as much physical bitcoin as necessary. Otherwise, with sufficient volatility, insolvency will ensue. That's one of the reasons I think in-kind ETFs and derivatives are medium term bullish AF.
Not necessary the case.
The future can be settled in bitcoin.
Daily margining can be done with cash.
In case of Bakkt futures are only 1 day forward, so marining or variation not a problem.
Not sure about Erisx, couldn't find product specifications.
Not so bearish on EFT or other BTC-related Derivatives then.
Pages: « 1 ... 24154 24155 24156 24157 24158 24159 24160 24161 24162 24163 24164 24165 24166 24167 24168 24169 24170 24171 24172 24173 24174 24175 24176 24177 24178 24179 24180 24181 24182 24183 24184 24185 24186 24187 24188 24189 24190 24191 24192 24193 24194 24195 24196 24197 24198 24199 24200 24201 24202 24203 [24204] 24205 24206 24207 24208 24209 24210 24211 24212 24213 24214 24215 24216 24217 24218 24219 24220 24221 24222 24223 24224 24225 24226 24227 24228 24229 24230 24231 24232 24233 24234 24235 24236 24237 24238 24239 24240 24241 24242 24243 24244 24245 24246 24247 24248 24249 24250 24251 24252 24253 24254 ... 33716 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!