Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[makrospex]

^
@12k

Sweeeeeeeet

Checking by at Bitfinex Bitstamp:



EDIT: Because tired. Good night

[1715126232]

1715126232

[jojo69]

fucks sake hairy

stop acting like a statist douche, you're embarrassing us in front of the moderates

[jbreher]

It was interesting to learn than Schiff's dad, Irwin, died in prison 3 years ago as part of his protest/boycott on federal income tax.

Fascinating. I had no idea they were related.

Peter Schiff published a moving memorial speech about his Dad Irwin.

https://schiffgold.com/commentaries/death-of-a-patriot/

Sorry I am going to call this out. This will be a highly unpopular post.

Dying chained to a hospital bed because you refuse to pay federal taxes is not the act of a patriot.

It is an act of greed, foolishness and stubbornness.  

If you have not read the evidence (I gather you have not), you may wish to retract your claim.

I have read the Code. I have read the legislative register. In contrast to what the IRS claims, there is no law nor regulation which subjects the regular income of US persons to an assessment of income tax.

Of course, the IRS claims differently. As was once famously said (Voltaire?) It is dangerous to be correct when your government is incorrect. So I have stopped tilting at that particular windmill, and pay according the illegal assessment as per the various 1040 forms. And reel in disgust each time.

Dude. 16th Amendment, followed by the Revenue Act of 1913?

I googled that in less than 10 seconds.

Edit:  here is the text of the 16th Amendment

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Bravo. You have learned how type a query into the convenient text box provided by Da Gooble. Too bad you are unable to understand the text to which it leads you.

First: That is NOT legislation. Any existing power is not exercised until legislation is enacted.

More importantly: The 16th does not say what you seem to think it says.

Firstly, the Supremes have clarified that the 16th only clarifies pre-existing power:

"... aside from the obvious error of the proposition, intrinsically considered, it manifestly disregards the fact that, by the previous ruling, it was settled that the provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged, and being placed in the category of direct taxation subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the income was derived -- that is, by testing the tax not by what it was, a tax on income, but by a mistaken theory deduced from the origin or source of the income taxed."
- USSC Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co., 240 U.S. 103 (1916)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/240/103/

... and that the 16th does not make taxable anything that was not previously taxable:

"As pointed out in recent decisions, it does not extend the taxing power to new or excepted subjects, but merely removes all occasion which otherwise might exist for an apportionment among the states of taxes laid on income, whether it be derived from one source or another."
- USSC Peck & Co v. Lowe, 247 U.S. 165 (1918)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/247/165/

and...

"Does the Sixteenth Amendment authorize and support this tax and the attendant diminution -- that is to say, does it bring within the taxing powers subjects theretofore excepted? The court below answered in the negative, and counsel for the government say: "It is not, in view of recent decisions, contended that this amendment rendered anything taxable as income that was not so taxable before." "
- USSC Evans v. Gore, 253 U.S. 245 (1920)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/253/245/

...for starters.

Let alone the fact that the 16th Amendment was fraudulently declared as enacted by Secretary of State Philander Knox, without the acquiescence of the requisite 2/3 of all states ratifying.

But even IF the 16th were legally ratified, and even IF the 16th covered regular income of the average person, there would still need to be enacting legislation for the income tax to be applicable to the income of the average person.

Three strikes - you're OUT!

[Ibian]

Got a call from my bank today. They had a few questions about my finances and expected money movements in the coming year. I barely deal with them so it was over quick, but they know I have bitcoin and I know they don't like it. Probably just a matter of time until they boot me, but that's expected.

I'm gonna buy my plane tickets with bitcoins the next few times. Lots of places that do it now, gotta see if I can actually live a normal life without a bank.

[Syke]

Let alone the fact that the 16th Amendment was fraudulently declared as enacted by Secretary of State Philander Knox, without the acquiescence of the requisite 2/3 of all states ratifying.

So much wrong I can't address it all, so I'll just correct one item and declare your entire post invalid.

"when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states"

[JayJuanGee]

fucks sake hairy

stop acting like a statist douche, you're embarrassing us in front of the moderates

Do you really believe it is a good idea to be advocating NOT to pay taxes?

Of course, we should try to minimize taxes and things like that, but seems problematic to be assigning hero-dom to guys who got put in jail for refusing to pay taxes.

Also, on a personal level, I understand that I could get into a bunch of fucking disputes with government agencies, including disagreeing about whether a tax or penalty is owed or just or whatever, but there should be a certain value to NOT getting locked up, too, if such getting locked up could be avoided.  Maybe in the Irwin Schiff case, it came down to NO choice and principles, yet does not seem like a great way to spend one's limited number of years on earth, if such lock up can be avoided..   

[HairyMaclairy]

Just sticking our nose above the line. Possible PAMP.

[HairyMaclairy]

Busy at the moment so do not have more than 10 seconds to spare. But from Wikipedia:

The Sixteenth Amendment was ratified by the requisite number of states on February 3, 1913, and effectively overruled the Supreme Court's ruling in Pollock.

Also from Wikipedia:

Sixteenth Amendment ratification arguments have been rejected in every court case where they have been raised and have been identified as legally frivolous.[3]

I am confident the other listed arguments are equally as frivolous.

[JimboToronto]

gotta see if I can actually live a normal life without a bank.

I've been doing it for a few years now myself... almost. I don't have a bank account at present but I do have a credit card.

I didn't intend to get a credit card but one day at the ballpark my buddy came back with a t-shirt and said he got it for free. I asked him if he signed up for a credit card and he said he had a card already and got the shirt for answering a few questions with no obligation. I assumed they'd never give me one with no job history, bank account or credit but what the hell, a free t-shirt is a free t-shirt.

To my amazement a couple of weeks later a card arrived in my mailbox along with an activation code. I figured that would be the crunch and they'd want tax statements, etc., but when I entered the code they informed me that I was immediately good for 3 grand, including cash advances. I tested it out when I was short a few hundred one night to jump on an opportunity and it worked like a charm.

I now use it strictly for travel and always keep a credit balance. They voluntarily kept offering me limit increases and of course I kept accepting them. Now I'm good for 5 figures. I can easily bypass the pesky $10k cash limit at the airport and have $30k to play with simply by leaving with a $10k credit on my card. It also makes buying flights and hotel rooms much easier.

I pay zero interest and zero bank fees. By always keeping a credit balance, I pay minimal card fees.

Don't let banksters ruin your life. Break free.

[gembitz]

12k timmmmmmberrrrrrr weeee

[jbreher]

Let alone the fact that the 16th Amendment was fraudulently declared as enacted by Secretary of State Philander Knox, without the acquiescence of the requisite 2/3 of all states ratifying.

So much wrong I can't address it all, so I'll just correct one item and declare your entire post invalid.

"when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states"

Thanks. Working from memory here. Fraudulently declared as enacted by Secretary of State Philander Knox, without the acquiescence of the requisite 3/4 of all states ratifying.

[btcbeliever]

Got a call from my bank today. They had a few questions about my finances and expected money movements in the coming year. I barely deal with them so it was over quick, but they know I have bitcoin and I know they don't like it. Probably just a matter of time until they boot me, but that's expected.

I'm gonna buy my plane tickets with bitcoins the next few times. Lots of places that do it now, gotta see if I can actually live a normal life without a bank.

On that topic, check out Celsius.network.

It pays me 4.6% interest on my Bitcoin, and will loan me money at 5%interest witl btc collateral.

I started earning on some of my btc stash 2 weeks ago.  So far it's awesome!

So now you don't need. Anne for loans any more,. And holding can pay interest.

[hd49728]

Do you set your stop-limit triggers for your bitcoin investment?
Newbies who do not about this, please read: One of the Best Weapons in Trading (a great guide for newbie traders, from GreatArkansas)
I will take profits around $13300 and will do stop-loss around $10800.

[btcbeliever]

Busy at the moment so do not have more than 10 seconds to spare. But from Wikipedia:

The Sixteenth Amendment was ratified by the requisite number of states on February 3, 1913, and effectively overruled the Supreme Court's ruling in Pollock.

Also from Wikipedia:

Sixteenth Amendment ratification arguments have been rejected in every court case where they have been raised and have been identified as legally frivolous.[3]

I am confident the other listed arguments are equally as frivolous.

Wikipedia is about as trustworthy and main stream media is, on topics involving government deception.

[HairyMaclairy]

Dude. 16th Amendment, followed by the Revenue Act of 1913?

I googled that in less than 10 seconds.

Edit:  here is the text of the 16th Amendment

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

I agree with you on income, but that law/amendment does not say anything about capital gains.

A capital gain *is* income

A capital gain exemption allows income by way of capital gain to be taxed at a lower rate

[HairyMaclairy]

Busy at the moment so do not have more than 10 seconds to spare. But from Wikipedia:

The Sixteenth Amendment was ratified by the requisite number of states on February 3, 1913, and effectively overruled the Supreme Court's ruling in Pollock.

Also from Wikipedia:

Sixteenth Amendment ratification arguments have been rejected in every court case where they have been raised and have been identified as legally frivolous.[3]

I am confident the other listed arguments are equally as frivolous.

Wikipedia is about as trustworthy and main stream media is, on topics involving government deception.

Breaking news: Wikipedia is a left wing scam.  I get all my news from gay frogs man, 8chan and Facebook memes, all of which are unbiased and reputable sources.

[jbreher]

Sixteenth Amendment ratification arguments have been rejected in every court case where they have been raised and have been identified as legally frivolous.[3]

Yes, they have been rejected. Without ever addressing the facts of the matter. At least in every case I have reviewed.

Whaddaya expect? Statists gonna state.

[Paashaas]

Do you have a link to such a suggestion to put ETH on bcash.. I thought that was just a joke or FUD rather than real considerations.

Would not put anything past those various dweebs, and it may be good for some of them to band together in their efforts to pool resources, and brains against the foundational superiority of king-daddy bitcoin.

https://ethresear.ch/t/bitcoin-cash-a-short-term-data-availability-layer-for-ethereum/5735

https://cointelegraph.com/news/buterin-proposes-bitcoin-cash-integration-to-scale-ethereum-in-short-term

[GreatArkansas]

Logarithmic chart of Bitcoin  Here we go again, boys.
 

[jojo69]

I wouldn't have near the problem with the US tax system if it were not so purposefully opaque and complex.  It is fucking maddening.

A person of average education should be able to navigate their responsibilities, but no, we have spawned a system so labyrinthine that we have a whole class of preparers that have to go back to school every year to keep abreast of the changes.

Being unwilling to pay ones share toward the common good and balking at a setup intentionally crafted to confuse are two entirely different things.