Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[AlcoHoDL]

By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.

Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.

Trying to get useful service from a notary will be coming next. I'll keep you posted.

No need for a safe. With Bitcoin, you are the bank! Just follow these simple steps:

1. Get a Trezor or Ledger.
2. Initialize it and write down the recovery seed.
3. Use an additional passphrase and keep it in your head (don't write it down).
4. Transfer your coins to that wallet (seed + passphrase).
5. Store the seed (but not the passphrase) in 3-4 separate places.
6. Done! Your coins are more secure than any vault in Zürich.

That's the beauty of Bitcoin. Being non-physical has its perks!
Now, try do this with gold or silver...

That's how i planned to do it originally, since i already have the ledger, but i wanted to keep it for active future use, with a small amount on it. A second one wouldn't be bad, i guess, but the main reason for keeping cold storage in a secured place is the "thug-with-a-hammer case", for example. If a family member gets kidnapped, i will have to get to the safe, for example, and i could call for professional help by asking an employee, without the bad guys knowing.
Just going through possible cases in my mind...

Valid concerns. What you can do in the "thug-with-a-hammer case", is to store a very small amount of coins in the wallet that corresponds to the seed alone (without a passphrase), or use a second, decoy passphrase. So, if anyone comes with a $5 wrench and tries to torture you, try to resist as much as you can, and then reveal the decoy passphrase. Let him have whatever small amount you've put in there.

Perhaps an extreme case of plausible deniability would be this example:

You have 100 BTC. You store 1 BTC in the wallet with just the seed (no passphrase). You store 5 BTC in the wallet with the decoy passphrase. You store the remaining 94 BTC in the wallet with the main passphrase (which you NEVER reveal).

Thug-with-a-hammer kidnaps you and starts torturing you. You play difficult, but soon enough you reveal the seed. He gets your 1 BTC and sets you free. That's the best-case scenario. But he may be smart... He suspects you have an additional passphrase, so he tortures you more. You resist, and at some point you "break" and reveal the decoy passphrase in crying tears... You beg him to leave you the 1 BTC and take the 5. He grabs everything (of course) and leaves. You still have 94 BTC.

All of the above can be done with only one Trezor or Ledger, and there is no way for anyone to tell how many passphrases you're using in addition to the seed. In fact, you're already using an infinite number of passphrases (wallets), they're just empty. It's an immensely beautiful mathematical construct.

The above example seems quite extreme, I know, but soon we'll be hearing about such kidnappings, and we must be prepared. Bitcoin, being non-physical, is a double-edged sword. That's why it's a stupid, immature thing to boast and advertise how much BTC you have. Because if you're stupid enough to advertise you have 100 BTC, you can be absolutely sure that the "thug-with-a-hammer" will torture you like hell until you give him all your coins...

[Icygreen]

Speaking of red trust here's one for the current WO turd fire.

Peter McCormack calling Richard Heart a scammer for Hex on his podcast. LOL
Richards knows it and can't even put on a poker face.
2 minute clip
https://twitter.com/american_hodl/status/1203093972312190976?s=19

The whole stream of Richard's longer monologue that followed his discussion with Peter is something like 2.5 hours, and I was lulled a bit into watching and listening to Richard's nonsensical monologue for a bit over an hour and a half before I could not take it any longer.  

It is like self-abuse

I didn't listen to the podcast and likely won't. My brain goes through the equivalent of a gag reflex trying to hear past Richard's ego. Other sensory challenges including that crooked candelabra and game of thrones chair of his every video makes it impossible to not feel completely repulsed well before he opens his mouth.

[XMR2020]

Valid concerns. What you can do in the "thug-with-a-hammer case", is to store a very small amount of coins in the wallet that corresponds to the seed alone (without a passphrase), or use a second, decoy passphrase. So, if anyone comes with a $5 wrench and tries to torture you, try to resist as much as you can, and then reveal the decoy passphrase. Let him have whatever small amount you've put in there.

Perhaps an extreme case of plausible deniability would be this example:

You have 100 BTC. You store 1 BTC in the wallet with just the seed (no passphrase). You store 5 BTC in the wallet with the decoy passphrase. You store the remaining 94 BTC in the wallet with the main passphrase (which you NEVER reveal).

Thug-with-a-hammer kidnaps you and starts torturing you. You play difficult, but soon enough you reveal the seed. He gets your 1 BTC and sets you free. That's the best-case scenario. But he may be smart... He suspects you have an additional passphrase, so he tortures you more. You resist, and at some point you "break" and reveal the decoy passphrase in crying tears... You beg him to leave you the 1 BTC and take the 5. He grabs everything (of course) and leaves. You still have 94 BTC.

All of the above can be done with only one Trezor or Ledger, and there is no way for anyone to tell how many passphrases you're using in addition to the seed. In fact, you're already using an infinite number of passphrases (wallets), they're just empty. It's an immensely beautiful mathematical construct.

The above example seems quite extreme, I know, but soon we'll be hearing about such kidnappings, and we must be prepared. Bitcoin, being non-physical, is a double-edged sword. That's why it's a stupid, immature thing to boast and advertise how much BTC you have. Because if you're stupid enough to advertise you have 100 BTC, you can be absolutely sure that the "thug-with-a-hammer" will torture you like hell until you give him all your coins...

You still have 94 BTC until malware hidden in the closed source hardware of Trezor executes and drains the remaining BTC.

Did you generate the entropy yourself? Inspect the hardware with an electron microscope? Audit the source of every Trezor firmware update? 100 BTC belong in a multi-vendor, multi-hardware, multi-location, multi-sig setup.

[gentlemand]

Other sensory challenges including that crooked candelabra and game of thrones chair of his every video makes it impossible to not feel completely repulsed well before he opens his mouth.

Interesting. Both of those elements were instrumental in my sexual awakening.

[cAPSLOCK]

Bitcoin is anti-Keynesian technology.

https://twitter.com/pierre_rochard/status/1202607947089612802?s=20

He's a complete moron.  All currencies - of which Bitcoin is one - are Keynesian in nature.  Currencies are garbage, confidence game scams based on artificial scarcity.  They start at a value of zero, are rigged above zero in some manner either by governments or some other market manipulation but are still just as worthless as their first day of creation, then always eventually return back to zero once the confidence game implodes.  This is why actual money, as opposed to currency, is required to be a physical commodity resource, because those aren't confidence game scams.

You are the moron.  Bitcoin is not only the first truly finite currency, it is actually the only truly finite commodity a human can own other than time. 

That was the dumbest lie from desperate pump and dump scammers I've ever read on this entire forum.  "The only truly finite commodity" in the universe!  It doesn't even qualify as a commodity in the first place, but it's the only finite one!  Great joke! 

As per the definition of Bitcoin from more well-known cryptoscammers such as Antonopolous, in his own words "Bitcoins don't exist".  Yes, that's a direct quote.  He claims it's a network and the 'coins', which don't exist don't even matter; that if they die or become outlawed, somehow people will bootstrap another 'coin' on the same "network".  So back to the original point, what the fuck is this "commodity" that you speak of?  The coins aren't a commodity because they don't exist.  All that exists are temporary, meaningless, valueless timestamps that can even be overwritten.  No commodity exists to speak of involving Bitcoin.

I am only replying to you because the concepts are important to people who ARE able to understand why Bitcoin is an invention about as novel as we will see in our lifetimes.  I do not care whether you agree or disagree with me because you are a disaster.

First of all I should have said that bitcoin is the only truly MEANINGFUL finite commodity in the universe a human can own.  I suppose I tripped up your autism a little making a bit of a hyperbolic statement with some assumption that I would not have to explain the finer points.  I think most people get it.  Certainly there are a finite number of hydrogen atoms (and gold for that matter) but one of the things that makes bitcoin unique is WE KNOW exactly how much there is, and how much there ever will be.  That makes it particularly unique and potentially extremely valuable.

And your assertion that it is not a commodity.  I understand your confusion here since it is entirely conceptual.  And conceiving something is beyond your ability.

Nakamoto discovered a way we can PROVE that a single person has ownership over an abstract concept.

I get why that short circuits the pickled turd that you use as a brain. 

It is certainly a new idea in that it is a commodity that can be owned, claimed, and traded without taking up any space, without having weight, and being transmittable worldwide at the speed of light.

Again I understand why this is unacceptable in your curdled, boxed in worldview, especially in light that you know deep down that you have rejected what will end up becoming the biggest revolution of this century by far, dwarfing even the technology that enabled it to exist (the Internet).

It is good for those of us who can actually see what Bitcoin is because there are enough people like you that it has not COMPLETELY exploded in anticipation of the value that is all but inevitable for it.

I cannot keep talking to you, because it hurts my soul, and I apologize to the WOs for getting tricked by this weasel.  Hopefully the concepts have some value.

[HairyMaclairy]

By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer of.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.

Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.

Bank safes are not for the storage of valuables.  

It’s in the terms and conditions.  I kid you not.

Also the #1 way to lose bitcoins is to have a passphrase that is not written down.

Best way is to split the seed into 2 parts and store multiple copies into multiple geographically separated locations, preferably offshore or at least at the other end of the country.   

[Icygreen]

By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.

Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.

Trying to get useful service from a notary will be coming next. I'll keep you posted.

No need for a safe. With Bitcoin, you are the bank! Just follow these simple steps:

1. Get a Trezor or Ledger.
2. Initialize it and write down the recovery seed.
3. Use an additional passphrase and keep it in your head (don't write it down).
4. Transfer your coins to that wallet (seed + passphrase).
5. Store the seed (but not the passphrase) in 3-4 separate places.
6. Done! Your coins are more secure than any vault in Zürich.

That's the beauty of Bitcoin. Being non-physical has its perks!
Now, try do this with gold or silver...

 Additionally, if i suddenly leave this life, i want my children and wife to take over the wallets. There will be trouble with the passphrase, i guess.

I may have suggested this before, sorry if I repeat but there's an easy solution to this.
Keep your seed in several locations under your control only. Keep the passphrase with several family members but never written with the seed.
Sleep easy knowing it would likely take calculated and direct efforts to compromise both locations to reveal the private key. 

Late Edit:  AlcoHoDL's advice above is likely the most secure option but probably too much for the average Hodl that does not have hundreds of thousands or millions in coin to safeguard. Most anyone who will be robbed will also have been targeted and likely with some knowledge of the amount of holdings they are after.
I don't however agree with HairyMaclairy in separation of seed words for the simple reason of 2 possible sources needing to remain secure.
Jupiter troll  post below this made me lol.

Sorry to hear about your finger.
I've done one of mine many years ago in a box and pan break. No fun

[jupiter9]

By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer of.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.

Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.

Bank safes are not for the storage of valuables.  

It’s in the terms and conditions.  I kid you not.

Also the #1 way to lose bitcoins is to have a passphrase that is not written down.

Best way is to split the seed into 2 parts and store multiple copies into multiple geographically separated locations, preferably offshore or at least at the other end of the country.  

Yeah! That's what i did! I Have separated my passphrase into 2 parts and stored them 1 in Africa, 1 in Europe , 1 Jamaica under the palm tree,  1 Antartica under the thick ice, 1 half on this forum and i told the other half to Satoshi Nakamoto because he won't tell anyone.

[jojo69]

tail

dog

whatever


I rather hope LTC is finally finding a bottom here.

[El duderino_]

tail

dog

whatever


I rather hope LTC is finally finding a bottom here.

?? What is this LTC??

[jupiter9]

tail

dog

whatever


I rather hope LTC is finally finding a bottom here.

You hope? What? That's a sinking ship. The captain Charlie Lee left the sinking boat right on time. Let that sink in! The boat i mean.

[arklan]

what's this about LTC dying? i never had any, but i'm curious and clearly missed hearing about it failing.

[El duderino_]

what's this about LTC dying? i never had any, but i'm curious and clearly missed hearing about it failing.

Nobody says it failing ..... I’m just being drunk and I don’t know what else

#HODLsleep in a few seconds..... brainbreakdown and knock out!

[jojo69]

it's not doing well

[1miau]

Hello everyone, I've launched a giveaway where you can win some free BTC: Educational giveaway | guess first Bitcoin Block in 2020 [9.5 mBTC].
Rules are easy, you have to guess Bitcoin's first block in 2020. Who comes closest will win. 

Feel free to participate and challenge us (especially Last of the V8s):

I am going to win and I am going to be rich you have been warned.

Don't let him win so easily! 

[lightfoot]

Quick question: I'm doing some side mining with a rebuilt S9 I got for nothing. Checked the stats page and it says foundblocks=1.

Did this thing solve a block? Sure I'm at Slush, so I get zilch, but if so that would be an unusual thing....

[jojo69]

it does happen

I found blocks with my 6950s back in the day

[Hueristic]

And 11 = 3

11 = 3

W00ps, I was too late.

[xhomerx10]

Quick question: I'm doing some side mining with a rebuilt S9 I got for nothing. Checked the stats page and it says foundblocks=1.

Did this thing solve a block? Sure I'm at Slush, so I get zilch, but if so that would be an unusual thing....

 Well slush found a block about 4 hours ago.  Is that the time frame?  Congratulations!
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/000000000000000000113776dc80fef4bc3c41a1eb07261e92536d8f8e0c3af7

[arklan]

And 11 = 3

11 = 3

W00ps, I was too late.

...wat?

also, why would being at slush mean you get nothing? you just mean the whole pooled mining situation generally or is there an issue with slush?