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Question: Feb. 15 Closing Price:
$0 - 3 (2.6%)
<$8,500 - 6 (5.2%)
$8,500-$9,000 - 3 (2.6%)
$9,001-$9,500 - 2 (1.7%)
$9,501-$10,000 - 11 (9.6%)
$10,001-$10,500 - 29 (25.2%)
$10,501-$11,000 - 21 (18.3%)
$11,001-$11,500 - 14 (12.2%)
$11,501-$12,000 - 7 (6.1%)
>$12,000 - 10 (8.7%)
>$30,000 - 9 (7.8%)
Total Voters: 115

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21526587 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (142 posts by 32 users deleted.)
psycodad
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December 08, 2019, 08:08:18 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)

back on, these things always seem to take longer than you think

What country makrospex?

Never, ever, trust a bank "safe" deposit in the US, the banks raid them on the regular.

I'm in central europe, on the countryside. There are different measures over here, but you never know, right? Somehow i'm glad they didn't call, i might have got involved with their services.

Thought I'd post this link as further deterrent to trust a bank safe no matter where (referring to the country where you'd think you could trust a safe to some degree):

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/bank-burglary_safe-deposit-boxes-plundered-in-basel/43961252

AFAIK no refunds have been paid to safe owners to date..

On top of that you have to yell "Cukoo" every hour... [1]
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December 08, 2019, 08:21:26 AM

I'm not really sure why Jew shill Harry McLarry pretends his non-TA "fractals" have any significance or meaning.  It's gotta be the most lazy, incompetent form of TA anyone can possibly do.  But the charts aren't even really repeating. Like the two below, he doesn't even attempt to apply any form of meaning to the fact one 'fractal' broke upwards and the latest one broke downwards.  Like all shitcoin scammers, he just sort of pretends the chart is somehow guaranteed to always go up no matter what.  If that is your claim, than you're saying it's a literal Ponzi scam by default.



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December 08, 2019, 08:37:02 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer of.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.

Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.

Trying to get useful service from a notary will be coming next. I'll keep you updated.
Bad luck, i cut my index finger today with a mitre saw, because of plain stupidity. I teared off the protection cover of the blade, because i damaged it with a piece of copper sheet that slipped and hit the lifting mechanics of the protector, so it became stuck. After the very next cut, when the blade was still rotating powerless, i made a stupid move and my index finger got hit by a few sawteeth. When the shock kicked in two minutes later, i had to sit down on the floor and almost had to vomit.
It's still slightly bleeding after hours and correct surgery, so my visit to the notary could take a little while and i'll cut down on typing for some days.

1st) the person who you spoke with at the bank who is checking with the manager might not be getting back to you because they are still looking into the matter, to the extent that they understand the question.

2nd)  I find real problems with your attempt to get a bank involved to insure bitcoins that you safeguard in a safety deposit box or whatever you are doing with that.
I doubt that they even need to know what you have in your safety deposit box and the value of it (especially when it comes to the bitcoin aspect of it, because the bitcoins [eg keys] should not be only in one place, anyhow).  Furthermore, hopefully you are storing one back up or one aspect of your bitcoins in such safety box rather than your ONLY ability to access it.  Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea of having either a back up or part of a key in a safety deposit box, but I see no reason to either tell the fucktwat bank managers about the contents of your box or the significance of it, or to attempt to insure such contents, but that does not mean that you should not be taking measures to ensure your coins in various kinds of means, whether it is using back ups or multi-sig or some variation of those kinds of security measures.  Of course, passing on your estate and considerations like that will likely involve instructions to second and or third parties that may or may  not know their instructions until after your passing (if that were to happen.. or should I say when it happens and if you have bitcoin at the time?).

back on, these things always seem to take longer than you think

What country makrospex?

Never, ever, trust a bank "safe" deposit in the US, the banks raid them on the regular.

Additionally:  What jo-squared said.

[edited out]

No need for a safe. With Bitcoin, you are the bank! Just follow these simple steps:

1. Get a Trezor or Ledger.
2. Initialize it and write down the recovery seed.
3. Use an additional passphrase and keep it in your head (don't write it down).
4. Transfer your coins to that wallet (seed + passphrase).
5. Store the seed (but not the passphrase) in 3-4 separate places.
6. Done! Your coins are more secure than any vault in Zürich.

That's the beauty of Bitcoin. Being non-physical has its perks!
Now, try to do this with gold or silver...


Agreed about everything you said, AlcoHoDL, except there might be some need to write down the additional pass phrase for a few reasons 1) in case you get brain trama or otherwise detained, 2) to pass down to heirs and 3) possibly other related reasons
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December 08, 2019, 09:00:30 AM
Merited by Biodom (1)

With all due respect, why should the bank insure your bitcoins from being stolen when you have access to the private keys and could steal them from the bank at any time?
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December 08, 2019, 09:09:41 AM

By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer of.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.

Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.


Can you store half the paper seed. Then the value is nothing. Smiley


Sorry about your finger.





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December 08, 2019, 09:20:53 AM

[edited out]

In general I like your thinking except in cases like this, where you either didn't read carefully or write without thinking. But I am in a good mood, so I will explain the obvious.

Whoaza!!!!!!   Coming out hardball, but I am glad that you are still willing to play ball.  Let's see how "obvious" is your explanation or my purported wrong thinking on the matter.

-If you sell your coins, you are not an owner anymore. You once were, but the statistics cover only the addresses with a positive balance NOW, amInotRite?

So far, so good.  I am with you.  I mean I agree.

-If you transfer most of your coins to an exchange but keep at least some dust in one of your addresses, then you are technically still an owner.

Yeah.  You own what coins are in the dust address and you own the coins that you sent to the exchange - except the exchange has custody over those coins that you sent to them, but you are still the owner, whether you refer to it as technically or not.  Of course, they have the private keys so you could end up getting fucked by giving them your private keys.

-If you transfer ALL of your coins to a personal address which is given by an exchange, you are technically not an owner, because there is a chance that the exchange or a hacker can scam you and you won't be able to withdraw it back.

I think that you lost me a bit here, but I believe that I still get your point that we are talking about coins that are on an exchange, and yeah if they screw up, you get hacked or they exit scam you, then you are fucked out of your coins.  That is correct.  You are not getting those coins back in those situations.

You heard about "Not your keys, not your coins" (MtGox hinted).

Now you are getting patronizing.  Of course, I have heard about that.  I referred to the concept in my earlier response.

BUT, I wasn't even talking about this case, because these addresses might be counted by this survey. I was referring to the last type:
Fair enough that some of the GOX coins might have been moved to individual addresses, but I doubt it.  The GOX coins are just under higher level of scrutiny now, and they are still combined into a few addresses and held /managed and oversaw through a custodian who is also under court review.

-Finally, if you give ALL your coins to a friend, trust, OTC, whatever, and you don't have a personal address and ability to controll your bitcoins, then how the HELL you can claim you are an owner?!?

I still think that you are getting caught up on the fact that the custodian can fuck you over.  Of course, they can, but if you are at a bar, and you ask a friend to hold your beer for a few minutes while you attempt to chat up the girl next to you, and when you come back you expect your friend to give you back your beer rather than to have drunk it.  Yeah, he may have drunk it, but that surely was not part of the agreement, so you might punch him in the face or having buy you a new beer or just unfriend him, but it still was your beer, even though you gave custody over to him for a short period.

Yeah, maybe you are getting caught up on whether the agreement was clear about who owned the coins or the beer or whatever, but that is the technicality, not whether you actually owned the coins or the beer.

You are a seller who is in process of selling, or shorting, or trading or whatever. The same applies for non physical futures trading. Why should we count those people as Bitcoin investors?

We count them as bitcoin investors because they are bitcoin investors who have left their coins with a custodian.  They may or may not get their coins back when they claim them, but they are still bitcoin investors for the purpose of counting, whether you want call it "technical" or not.  Now, for the purpose of having securely ensured that they can get their coins, that is another issue, but the underlying account holders are still bitcoin investors even if their coins are co-mingled with thousands of other account holders.

They are like every other gambler who puts money on horses or whatever.

Of course, having your coins with a third party creates a variety of third party risks, but that does not take away from the fact that the underlying account holders are bitcoin owners.  Whether they actually ever remove their coins from the exchange or choose to leave the coins there for years and years will affect the odds that something might happen to their coins to cause them to be removed from ownership.

No matter there might be millions of them.

That's right.  There may be millions of them, and we can agree to disagree, and I am going to call your thinking fuzzy logic to the extent that you want to continue to insist that an exchange with one address of millions of account holders who have claims to the bitcoins within the address is just counted as one owner.  That is just irrational principle and technical based bullshit, that does not align with the actual on the ground facts that the individual owners could chose to get their coins and to remove them from that address.. . maybe through proof of keys or whatever, and if the exchange does not give the coins or say that they were hacked or exits, then that is another story that may or may not result in the owners who thought that they have bitcoins ending up not having the bitcoins that they thought that they had.

The point of this survey is to show the number of addresses hence people behind them (as an estimate),

Yes there is an attempt to figure out how many actual people are in bitcoin and whether adoption is growing because addresses are growing.

who are involved in real possesion of BTC at this particular moment.

Yes, you are trying to read "real" possession as a requirement concerning whether someone actually qualifies as a bitcoin owner, and I disagree with you.  Likely a lot of other peeps are going to disagree with you too, but whatever, we can agree to disagree and I can call you deluded in terms of your "technical" limitations that you want to impose onto bitcoin owners, and you can disagree with me too.  Whatever.

And this number is shockingly low <<28 mil, which is a very good bullish sign, so let's not spoil it with  nonsense verbiage anymore, mmmkey?

Again.. patronizing and you proved no point, except maybe reiterating and/or explaining your previously asserted beliefs, and I am surprised that you want to double down and go to town so strongly on this "technical" but seemingly inaccurate factual point.

The number of 28 million bitcoin addresses surely has a significance, but it is not exactly reflective of numbers of people involved in bitcoin or owners of bitcoin whether talking about on chain ownership or claims through various kinds of custodians or even lightning channels that are linked to addresses.  

Anyhow, I doubt that we really need to go on about these foundational points and our disagreement on such foundational points.  It is trite at best.  In other words, I stand by the points of my previous post and any other subsequent explanation attempts that I have made in this post.
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December 08, 2019, 09:23:14 AM

what's this about LTC dying? i never had any, but i'm curious and clearly missed hearing about it failing.

Classic signs of the alt market bottoming  Grin
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December 08, 2019, 09:46:25 AM

Beer example.....mehhh. It must be late night for you JJG so i can understand that,  Will wait for another example   Tongue
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December 08, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
Last edit: December 08, 2019, 10:26:06 AM by Last of the V8s

https://twitter.com/BitcoinEcon/status/1203469841828581381?s=20
weird flex: capped stock-to-flow https://swissrexag.ch/wp-content/uploads/1910_Newsletter-8_stock-to-flow-model-proof-of-non-linearity_EN.pdf
someone wants to stock up before all hell breaks loose - 'oh planB's predictions are too wild'

meanwhile in old stuff https://seekingalpha.com/article/4310421-how-much-silver-is-above-ground
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December 08, 2019, 09:58:13 AM

My therapist has started checking the price of bitcoin before our sessions to see what kind of hour she’s in for.

What the fuck have YOU done for adoption.
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December 08, 2019, 09:59:14 AM

Beer example.....mehhh. It must be late night for you JJG so i can understand that,  Will wait for another example   Tongue

That beer was a test to verify if any real astute peep was reading.

Hm.  You have verified my test....


meh




 Wink



it's not doing well

Oh my... am I biting my nails.....
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December 08, 2019, 10:13:33 AM

Grayscale Bitcoin Trust stock in top 5 by millennials, while Gen X and Boomers....



https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191204005172/en/Schwab-Report-Self-Directed-401-Balances-Hold-Steady

Here's some more stuff about inter-generational differences, makes me feel old and poor; kids coming for my money etc.

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December 08, 2019, 10:42:43 AM

Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grubb.
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December 08, 2019, 10:44:14 AM


I was extremely surprised when I found out that a few days after the announcement Cybertruck, Elon Musk announced that more than 150 thousand pre-orders had already been framed. Initially, I generally thought that this car was created specifically for some kind of film or something like that lol  Grin
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December 08, 2019, 10:52:37 AM
Merited by Last of the V8s (1)

My therapist has started checking the price of bitcoin before our sessions to see what kind of hour she’s in for.

What the fuck have YOU done for adoption.

Demanding Dowry in BTC  Grin Cool




Wow! A Model S and a Cybertruck in the same pic just outside a Tesla Store!
What the chance!?

And this Cybertruck has side mirror  Grin
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It's over $9000!!


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December 08, 2019, 10:55:56 AM



Quite sure my grandpa would like to have one of those. Roll Eyes

...and I'd like to have the bluish one which is on the other side of the road.
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December 08, 2019, 11:05:14 AM

11 = 3

True. As are the following:

11 = 9
11 = 13
11 = 17
11 = 21
11 = 1001
11 = 1011
11 = 10001

The possibilities are endless...

I only see 11.... wow nice stash

11 = 11BTC
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December 08, 2019, 11:24:02 AM

'Man eats banana'
is somehow considered news
in this weird weird world.

https://twitter.com/Hipster_Trader/status/1203485160290824193?s=20
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December 08, 2019, 12:30:49 PM
Last edit: December 08, 2019, 12:47:47 PM by realr0ach


I read that random nobody's article above before and forget what his logic was, but I think he assumed only 7-10% of all silver mined had been lost to industrial use, when that's probably the most outrageous lowball estimate you could possibly make.  Other people claim 90% has been lost.  Whatever the real number is, it's pretty obvious vastly higher amounts of silver has been used or lost than gold, and silver is only coming out of the ground at a 8.x ratio to gold.

Nobody actually knows the exact amount because silver doesn't have a new world order, govt tracking and enslavement system called 'blockchain' attached to it, but if silver was actually abundant, it wouldn't require more naked shorts to contain the price than every other commodity on the entire planet.  It's shorts would look more like copper in the below chart instead which actually is abundant.  They'd be able to ignore the market and let this supposed 'overstock' naturally prevent it from going anywhere like copper, but instead, they spend more time and money attempting to suppress silver than any other commodity that exists.

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December 08, 2019, 12:47:14 PM

'Man eats banana'
is somehow considered news
in this weird weird world.

https://twitter.com/Hipster_Trader/status/1203485160290824193?s=20

He surely pointed out the absurdity of it all.

Meanwhile, the dilution of fiat money continues. Go Bitcoin Go!
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