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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26835983 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
Tyson95
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April 19, 2014, 07:55:34 AM

Largeish hidden buy order on Bitfinex @475 keeping the market up. It just bought 350 btc from me. I wonder how much more its willing to buy from me?

Ouch
ChartBuddy
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April 19, 2014, 08:00:16 AM


Explanation
JorgeStolfi
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April 19, 2014, 08:02:36 AM

I honestly don't understand why you spend so much time to spread some random misleading FUD.

Because bitcoiners keep repeating the same shameless lies?  Tongue

TLDR; please refer to one of the many rebuttals to this argument found earlier in this thread.  Cash, credit card data etc. etc. etc.

Unfortunately the thieves did not read those rebuttals, and continue to steal bitcoins even from computer-savy people.
KeyserSoze
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April 19, 2014, 08:03:41 AM

nano did fuck all.....

her husband must be furious!


I bought at 355, I sold at 420. I bought at 405, I sold at 520. I bought at 488, shorted at 490. now I have bought at 484. You will find evidence for all these if you care to look.

Nano took a lot of time to carefully go through and unmask your delusion multiple times in a dandy little timeline. It was gift from her to us. She practically put a li'l red bow on it. I'm not going to bother with it again when the truth is clear. All we need is for you begin deliriously shouting at us that you've "called the bottom" when you have done no such thing and we'll rename you BJAllen. You two can Indian Leg Wrestle over who needs the most attention.
chessnut
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April 19, 2014, 08:08:11 AM

nano did fuck all.....

her husband must be furious!


I bought at 355, I sold at 420. I bought at 405, I sold at 520. I bought at 488, shorted at 490. now I have bought at 484. You will find evidence for all these if you care to look.

Nano took a lot of time to carefully go through and unmask your delusion multiple times in a dandy little timeline. It was gift from her to us. She practically put a li'l red bow on it. I'm not going to bother with it again when the truth is clear. All we need is for you begin deliriously shouting at us that you've "called the bottom" when you have done no such thing and we'll rename you BJAllen. You two can Indian Leg Wrestle over who needs the most attention.

nano took little quotes especially out of context. a very selective researcher indeed. I promise you, she is not a speculator or a trader, or experienced to say the least. she has no idea whats going on here, no wonder she is hurt. why dont you take your own advice, dont believe everything you read.
JorgeStolfi
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April 19, 2014, 08:17:56 AM

Do I need to tell the many ways in which the private keys of a victim can be obtained by a thief?
Please enlighten us.
OK, where do I start? You know what a 'computer' is?  A 'program'?  A 'hacker'? A 'trojan'? A 'key logger'? A 'hardware patch'? A 'memory dump'? A 'covert channel'? A 'malicious wallet software'?  A 'pseudo-pseudo-random number generator'?   A 'social engineer'? A 'disgruntled employee'? A  'naive user'?

KeyserSoze
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April 19, 2014, 08:18:24 AM

Wow, looks like i lost a couple coins pretty quick. But the fireworks are pretty!
Go-Go-Gadget-Price!
KeyserSoze
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April 19, 2014, 08:19:44 AM

Do I need to tell the many ways in which the private keys of a victim can be obtained by a thief?
Please enlighten us.

OK, where do I start? You know what a 'computer' is?  A 'program'?  A 'hacker'? A 'trojan'? A 'key logger'? A 'hardware patch'? A 'memory dump'? A 'covert channel'? A 'malicious wallet software'?  A 'pseudo-pseudo-random number generator'?   A 'social engineer'? A 'disgruntled employee'? A  'naive user'?

Back up... could you define "start"?
solex
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April 19, 2014, 08:19:53 AM

Do I need to tell the many ways in which the private keys of a victim can be obtained by a thief?
Please enlighten us.
OK, where do I start? You know what a 'computer' is?  A 'program'?  A 'hacker'? A 'trojan'? A 'key logger'? A 'hardware patch'? A 'memory dump'? A 'covert channel'? A 'malicious wallet software'?  A 'pseudo-pseudo-random number generator'?   A 'social engineer'? A 'disgruntled employee'? A  'naive user'?

And these haven't been used to illegally obtain fiat on millions of occasions?
rpietila
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April 19, 2014, 08:29:12 AM

But we do not need to discuss theory. The MtGOX heist alone stole 5% of all the money in the bitcoin economy.  There have been dozens, if not hundreds, of other heists; the total may be 10% of all the money.  AFAIK, none of those thieves has been identified, much less caught; and none of those stolen coins were retrieved.

That is 10% of all the money in 5 years, which is 2% per year.

Inflation alone steals 3-9% of our money every year.

Try harder  Wink
KFR
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April 19, 2014, 08:33:57 AM

Do I need to tell the many ways in which the private keys of a victim can be obtained by a thief?
Please enlighten us.
OK, where do I start? You know what a 'computer' is?  A 'program'?  A 'hacker'? A 'trojan'? A 'key logger'? A 'hardware patch'? A 'memory dump'? A 'covert channel'? A 'malicious wallet software'?  A 'pseudo-pseudo-random number generator'?   A 'social engineer'? A 'disgruntled employee'? A  'naive user'?


Credit card payment authentication requires transmission of authorising data.   Bitcoins are easier to keep safe right now.  But this is programmable money and it's getting safer all the time.  You may not have the vision and imagination to consider what some entrepreneurs will: that enterprising innovators will only make bitcoins safer while credit cards, paypal passwords - every alternative is [cough]heartbleed[/cough] just as vulnerable if not more vulnerable than Bitcoin.

Every single thing you listed above could be applied to fiat alternatives such as credit cards, online banking services, payment processors etc.

You know this.  Either you know all this or you wilfully ignore everything you disagree with.  I guess you're far too "academic" to let facts get in the way of your agenda.

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April 19, 2014, 08:38:51 AM

freebit13
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I got Satoshi's avatar!


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April 19, 2014, 08:42:38 AM

We're already in a lopsided situation where although more and more merchants are accepting BTC yet we don't seem to have many consumers on board. Bitcoin has pretty obvious negatives for consumers, who just want "safe and easy." I imagine "safe and easy" is in the pipeline, but of course the problem is it is my imagination only.

I've always thought that was bitcoin's biggest weakness in terms of adoption for actual use as opposed to speculation: how does it benefit the consumer? It's advertised as a great way to protect merchants, but if the consumer won't use it because they don't get any additional benefit for going through the trouble, it doesn't matter how many merchants accept it.

Well, we keep waiting for the "killer app" in the developed world. Something that makes it simply, easy, fast, safe and effective. Circle.com, am I talking to you??

Meanwhile Bitcoin has more advantages in the non-developed world. But getting it there in a way that is meaningful is a entirely different task.

There is a gap that still needs to be filled and no one has filled it yet.
Research MPesa...
mooncake
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April 19, 2014, 08:46:20 AM

Do I need to tell the many ways in which the private keys of a victim can be obtained by a thief?
Please enlighten us.
OK, where do I start? You know what a 'computer' is?  A 'program'?  A 'hacker'? A 'trojan'? A 'key logger'? A 'hardware patch'? A 'memory dump'? A 'covert channel'? A 'malicious wallet software'?  A 'pseudo-pseudo-random number generator'?   A 'social engineer'? A 'disgruntled employee'? A  'naive user'?

I do know all of these.

I do hope you understand that there are so many ways in which the private keys cash of a victim can be obtained stolen by a thief.
ChartBuddy
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April 19, 2014, 09:00:17 AM


Explanation
magicmexican
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April 19, 2014, 09:09:01 AM

Just woke up, any reason for the small spike or just the usual stuff?
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April 19, 2014, 09:09:39 AM

I remember when JorgeStolfi pretended to be unbias towards Bitcoin, and actually enjoyed his rational counter-arguments against BTC.
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April 19, 2014, 09:15:03 AM



What does this has to do with bitcoin ?
GreekGeek
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April 19, 2014, 09:20:15 AM



What does this has to do with bitcoin ?

underpriced ccmf?
JorgeStolfi
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April 19, 2014, 09:21:36 AM

And these haven't been used to illegally obtain fiat on millions of occasions?
Of course; so we know that the danger of having keys stolen (particularly from users who are not computer security specialists) is not just a theoretical possibility.

Now compare a trojan that steals bitcoin keys with one that steals bank passwords or credit card data.

The bitcoin trojan can immediately sign and send off a request to transfer all the bitcoins in the compromised address to the thief's address.  The theft will be complete and irreversible before the victim has a chance to check his balance.  The thief does not have to intervene or even monitor the action, and he can be anywhere in the world.  Once the theft is complete, the victim has no recourse: he cannot even prove that the transfer was a theft.  A million such thefts can be performed on the same afternoon, or a single address can be emptied of one million bitcoins, and no one will suspect of anything.

A trojan that steals a bank password may try to send the stolen data to the thief, but that is risky since that communication could be traced.  Instead, the trojan could perhaps log into the bank by itself and issue a wire transfer to the thief's bank account.  The transfer may take hours or days, depending on where the thief is.  During that time, or even after it, the client may notice the theft, call the bank and cancel the transfer.  If the amount it too large, the bank may get suspicious and call the client.  Ditto if ten clients empty their accounts on the same day.

Either way, the thief still has to get the stolen cash out of the bank, within a couple of days at most.  That is risky because accounts owners must provide identity, and cash can be traced across multiple bank transfers.   The thief cannot open thousands of accounts to receive the stolen money.  And so on.

Credit card theft has similar difficulties and risks.

Therefore, it is not surprising that bitcoin thefts are already so common, in spite of the small "market" and the novelty of the concept.  Bitcoin theft must be the hottest thing in the black hacking field now.  Bitcoin is still wearing diapers, and yet bitcoin theft already amounts to well over 500 million dollars -- perhaps more than all the money that has been invested in bitcoin ventures so far (SMBIT, for instance, has got only 50 million).

As bitcoins become more widely used, we can be sure that the hackers who now steal credit cards will turn their weapons to bitcoins. 
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