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Question: When will BTC get back above $70K:
7/14 - 0 (0%)
7/21 - 1 (1%)
7/28 - 11 (11.3%)
8/4 - 16 (16.5%)
8/11 - 7 (7.2%)
8/18 - 5 (5.2%)
8/25 - 7 (7.2%)
After August - 50 (51.5%)
Total Voters: 97

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26453086 times)
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December 12, 2023, 03:15:05 AM


The weekly candle saw some correction at last hahaha gonna test the support range 39K-37K max I hope

Btw do u guys know about Bookmap?
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December 12, 2023, 03:31:11 AM
Merited by AlcoHoDL (1)

Well, using a bit of leverage would have worked during 2014-2015, in early 2017, in late 2018 and 2022, but in my experience, significant leverage always kills your account in the end...maybe that's why i was a bit worried about M. Saylor in late 2022, but, apparently, he did not have any covenants that would have caused him to buy back the loan at that time, despite the fact that MSTR book value was probably deeply negative back then.
If he would have been obligated to buy back the loans, MSTR would have to sell into a 'hole", then go bankrupt, and btc would dip even more. There are multiple stories about successes, like people using credit card debt and buying gobs of btc in 2015, but the stories of some who did the same in an inopportune time are not being told and, obviously, you could have put yourself in a pickle by doing this in late 2017 and 2021.

So, my general thought about the leverage is...just don't do it!

EDIT: someone wants to create the negative weekly handle in US or close the CME gap?
$41894 read... Sad

Regarding leverage, there could have had been some ways that Saylor might have had been gambling in ways that were greater than he had said that he was doing, but Saylor was not even close to being that level of overleveraged. 

The dumbass overleveraged twats were trading with their bitcoin and trading with other people's bitcoin, so they were going quite a bit further than Saylor in term of the kinds of leverage plays that they were pursuing... and sure there were some of the BIG players who were able to get out of some of those gambling products prior to their crash. and so yeah, normies sometimes will get risky and daring in their own ways of leveraging based on their witnessing what others are doing and even misreading the abilities of their own cashflows to service their debts in the event that their investment does not go in the direction that they had anticipated.

As far as weekly candles, at the time of your post we were already at the beginning of a new weekly candle, so it is not as difficult to make a new weekly candle to be red as compared with our streak of 8 weekly candles, and including the last one that closed yesterday at $43,786, there would have had been needs to bring that one down to below $40k to have had been able to close it in the red, rather than it's closing in the green.

So then this week's candle becomes a different story and so it is opening quite high at $43,786, so it is not going to be easy to necessarily get it to close in the green, but how likely is it to have more than 8 green weekly candles in a row.. so it could hardly be bearish to have this 9th candle to come out red rather than green.. but I am not going to take it for granted or even pre-judge since we have more than 5.5 more days before this current weekly candle closes.. and whether or not it is able to get back above $43,786 seems like sleeping kind of information.. even though getting back above $43,786 would be kind of exciting to have 9 weekly greens in a row... .

[edited out]
If this was in reference to my post above yours, I am not referencing leverage.  I talking about accounts like a 401k.  If you withdraw before you are 60 years old there is the typical income tax (let's say 24%) plus an additional 10% fee since you are not 60 years old.  So, if in 2017 someone emptied say $100,000usd from thier 401k they would end up with $66,000usd.  They then used that to buy bitcoin with.  No leverage involved.  Only the bet that you make up the $34,000 you had to pay as well as any compounded interest you would of made if it remained in the 401k.

There can also be ways to roll the 401k into a qualified account in which you would be able to buy BTC through such qualified account, but I heard that some of the rolling over into qualified accounts are getting more and more difficult to accomplish... especially the self-directed kinds of ones that would allow you to directly hold BTC rather than using a qualified custodian... but who know with ETFs, there might be some attractive options.. but still might not get quite to the same level of self-custody.. but they would still mostly get the BTC exposure without the penalties and still presumptively this would not be all of you BTC since you already hold BTC separately from those accounts, so you may well end up having way more BTC held privately as compared to the 401k or even a 401k that would be rolled over into some kinds of accounts that would be able to get BTC exposure without the withdrawal or the tax penalties, and remain tax deferred, too.

[edited out]
........Considering the fact that its market cap is nearly one trillion USD as we speak, it wouldn't be able to survive for so long if there was a fundamental flaw in the code.

I cannot remember your exact story in terms of your bitcoin entry date, AlcoHoDL.. but I was thinking that maybe you were only a couple of years after me... .. but let's say that we both got into bitcoin and we had some similar kinds of faith in bitcoin, even prior to its having as long of a track record, and even prior to it even coming close to $300 Billion in market cap... .. but surely we had some conviction, and perhaps our conviction increased in a kind of Lindy effect kind of way, just as bitcoin's investment thesis likely got stronger and stronger and stronger in a kind of Lindy effect way, especially after some challenges that we might not have had completely understood either how they would resolve or what exactly was motivating the challenges or if there might have been some hidden challenges that we were not appreciating, and no one was catching.. even with the crowd-sourcing effect of reviewing the code but at the same time thinking that there has to be great incentives to review the code with billions and billions and billions of dollars of value being stored within the system, but then other businesses and systems being built on 2nd and 3rd layers that were dependent upon the success of bitcoin in order for their own businesses and time, energies and money being spent upon investing into bitcoin.

Returning to where this discussion originally started, I don't think an informed coiner has any reason to be bitter, toxic or aggressive towards nocoiners, aside from the occasional Bat-slap, rusty pipe, and other amusing funzies and mindrustenings. For one thing, a coiner, depending on the size of his/her stash, is likely not going to need to be bothered by the opinions of others in this matter. A bit of disappointment, perhaps, an urge to spread the word, maybe, but no bitterness, no hate.

As longer term bitcoiners, we likely have some responsibilities, like elderly statesmen, but at the same time not necessarily being patronizing to the fact that there are people who take a while to convert from nocoiners to low coiners and perhaps transitioning into coiners who have a significant and meaningful investment of time, energies and value into dee cornz.

And, surely our responsibilities are voluntary since we can be gentlmanly about the whole matter or we can be dicks, and surely there are all kinds of folks in bitcoin in the sense that bitcoin is for enemies, so we might not even want to be helpful to some people who end up getting into bitcoin.

Just look at the price: $42,208 as I type this. How can you not believe? LOL
Edit: Improved layout & syntax, added some text.

I believe... and yeah, it may well be a very lose religion at best, based on quite a bit of maths and sciences. but at the same time having connections with humans too.. even though very difficult to change certain aspects.... because humans that want to change it have to convince other humans who don't want to change it, in which consensus is likely more powerful than democracy in terms of the difficulties to change.. a kind of philosophy in that if it is not broken, then don't fix it... and either get involved with it (in terms of your time, energies and value) or choose not to...
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December 12, 2023, 03:48:56 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

mmh ok.. gox coins seem to be coming..

I hope I'm wrong but my guess is we go down to 35k at least, maybe testing 30k.  Bears have been slaughtered recently so they will cling to any fud they can.  Apart from an ETF denial, which is unlikely, this will be their last big chance.  

Again, I hope I'm wrong.  But on the other hand, a good shakeout has always been positive for a parabolic event afterwards.  And people are just a bit too bullish right now, imo.
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December 12, 2023, 03:56:34 AM


Why would we give any shits about Ethereum in these here parts?

Possible market trend change? How about good old "BTC is down because people withdraw crypto to fiat to buy Xmas presents" ? That excuse always worked.


And then "crypto?"  Why do you want to talk about that?  to the extent that "crypto" means anything that might be related to topics of his thread?

Classic day

I read some guys predicting we either go up or go down …
At this point every guru making sure he got it right 🤓

That's what I usually say.. 50/50. or maybe sometimes there will be more nuance when we add sideways into the equation.. but still the end result may well be something close to a coin toss with a slight advantage to one side or another depending on things happening at the time of the observation.

An additional $3000 - $5000 bonus dump on top of the recent red candle would be appropriate.

Let us pray.



Those of us who are so inclined.


Maybe it will happen, and maybe it won't?  - whether "appropriate" or not.. that's another story.


An additional $3000 - $5000 bonus dump on top of the recent red candle would be appropriate.
9k up candle would be more appropriate .

Yes...

Which way creates the most pain?  Perhaps UPpity is more painful than downity.. especially for those who had been underinvesting, fence sitting or otherwise failing/refusing to adequately prepare their lil selfies for UP.
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December 12, 2023, 04:01:15 AM


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December 12, 2023, 04:35:12 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Let us prey.... upon those who fail to hodl.
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December 12, 2023, 05:37:30 AM

So basically I remember JJG fucking around and saying there is no 4 year cycle (at least 2 years ago)

Doesn't sound like the same JJG that I know.

Sure any of us sometimes might make arguments that might seem self-contradictory or even arguing from various stances, but if you might think about my posts have never really wavered very much from assertions that BTC price dynamics have a lot to do with 1) stock to flow, 2) 4-year fractal and 3) exponential s-curve adoption based on Metcalfe principles and network effects (referring to those espoused by Trace Mayer).

So sure, there might be times when I might take some counter-positions, but frequently I had gone back to those same points, and I have not really stopped saying those kinds of things even if there might be some problems with the various squigglies that Plan B wrote out, but  I am not against the idea, even if the exact numbers might not be correct. 

I don't tend to be a big fan of supercycle or nonsense about bitcoin's price following hashrate, but that does not necessarily mean that I am consistent in terms of all of my posts or that some of my other ideas might seem to contradict from time to time..

I also don't tend to take for granted short-term price moves, and even that anything is close to guaranteed, so if someone is even arguing something that I agree with but describing it as a certainty rather than a probability set, then that could also cause me to take the opposite position... or at least seem to take the opposite position, because I frequently will fight back with assertions that I perceive to be too rigid, even if I might agree that whatever had been asserted to be the most likely scenario.. because even most-likely scenarios rarely have confidence levels that would even be higher than 60% or so, unless maybe some kind of a real short term set up.. but even then, I tend to be a wiffle-waffler when it comes to many aspects of BTC price matters, even though it is an ongoing topic in these here parts..

When I look at the reward to fee next 3  ½ ings if miners keep force fees to stay at 30 stats

10 percent fee per block   now
18 percent fee per block   2024
31 percent fee per block.  2028
47 percent fee per block   2032

what does all of the above mean for supply shock?
say

6.95000  now
3.82500  2024
2.26250  2028
1.48125  2032

if fees flatten out at .7 btc per block. the ½ effect ends  by 2036 or sooner if fees go to a steady 1 btc  a block

You come up with some doosies, sometimes... and yeah there are going to be changes in the ratios in which miners are more dependent upon fees rather than subsidies.. so yeah, each halvening we will see the extent to which the BTC price goes up which would be at least doubled ever four years for the halvening to have the same effect on the reward... so surely, it is difficult to predict that many legs in advance without necessarily knowing price, and if BTC price doubles every 4 years, then perhaps that is enough to have the subsidies to have the same effect, but we know adoption is going up too.. so usage and fees are likely to go up, as you project... so in the end ?  what is the punchline? 

Are you suggesting that something is supposed to be anticipated from this?  I am anticipating the BTC price to continue to go up.. and likely the halvening will continue to have effects for the next 10-20 years.. and sure maybe more, but can't we just adjust our theories as we go instead of trying to overly concretize whatever we believe is going to happen 20 years or more?  Does it matter very much?  We have some tentative ideas about what is going to happen, so what good does it do to attempt to get even more specific in regards to our wannabe sorcery in regards to the future?

Even with your forum registration date, maybe we could consider you as being close to a full cycle kind of guy, but still even if you had been fairly aggressively accumulating BTC for the last 4 years at $100 per week, you would have invested right around $21k, and you would have gotten around 1.11 BTC ($48,840)- which still is ONLY around less then 2.5x rise in value. or around 150% profits.. and with an asset like bitcoin, I have my doubts about the extent that it would be worth it to be cashing out any BTC - unless maybe you had happened to front load your investment, like I already mentioned...
The country where I live (Pakistan), 100$ per week (or 400$ per month) is not a small amount. Here average income is around 300$ per month.

There is no need to get too caught upon the particular amount that I used in the example

I try my best to accumulate as much as I can but investing 100$ per week is not in my reach TBH. If you are from developed country like USA where average income is 8000$ for such people investing 100$ in Bitcoin or any other asset is not a big deal.

Exactly, $100 a week is not a big deal in many parts of the western world, but people still don't regularly save into anything, and it is a stretch if they might save in a kind of 401k plan or perhaps save up for a house, yet many times, people in the west (including all people) would likely put themselves in a much better place by creating some kind of a modest bitcoin investment strategy, even if the amount that they invest might not be up to western standards, and perhaps they are struggling to put $10 to $50 per week into bitcoin, so whatever, the amounts do not matter as much as figuring out if you are even able to invest in the first place (which means that you are able to generate cashflows that exceed your expenses while maintaining some kind of an emergency fund that might be 3-6 months in advance, too).

Rest I do agree that there can be resistance at 50 or 55k rather with current dip we can inferior that Bitcoin has its first resistance at 44/43k before it make its way to 50k.

I don't know about whether the mere fact that the BTC price ended up correcting rather than getting above $45k would rise to the level of meaning that there was a lot of resistance at $45k rather than just difficulties that sometimes might exist for buyers to keep up when the BTC price keeps going up, then the buy demand has to be able to keep up with such upward movement of the price, so sure then we end up getting some kind of a BTC price correction.. which is barely into the 10% territory so far.. as OGNasty already mentioned.

But yeah, it still could be that we end up bouncing in a range that is from $35k to $55k for a while, and maybe we could try to hone in upon whether our new "don't wake me up zone" might end up fitting into these kinds of parameters, even though having $20k as the range does seem to be quite large - but part of the idea of "don't wake me up zone does become a kind of area in which the price movements within that area may well not be really BIG significances, but if we start to get to the edge of the zone (in either price direction), then it starts to get interesting about whether a break out might occur in one direction or the other.. and sure, if we move within the don't wake me up zone a lot, then that might also trigger a waking up even though maybe in the whole scheme of things it could be questionable whether waking up is justified as long as we are within the newly create don't wake me up zone.. if it might become reasonable to conceptualize such a zone and maybe tweak its boundaries a bit in order to attempt to take into account our current contextual realities.

mmh ok.. gox coins seem to be coming..

I hope I'm wrong but my guess is we go down to 35k at least, maybe testing 30k.  Bears have been slaughtered recently so they will cling to any fud they can.  Apart from an ETF denial, which is unlikely, this will be their last big chance.  

Again, I hope I'm wrong.  But on the other hand, a good shakeout has always been positive for a parabolic event afterwards.  And people are just a bit too bullish right now, imo.

What you are saying doesn't seem totally unreasonable, and so if $40k consitutes right around a 10% correction, then $35k would be a bit over a 22% correction, and $30k would constitute about a 33% correction.  So none of them seem totally unreasonable... Whether they are going to happen or not, might be another story.. I am not going to count on either of them happening, but I am also not going to be surprised if such things were to end up happening, either.. either down to $35k or even down to $30k.. they are just not givens.. but things that reasonably could end up happening.
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December 12, 2023, 06:01:19 AM


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December 12, 2023, 06:16:39 AM
Merited by JimboToronto (1)

Let us prey.... upon those who fail to hodl.

I guess Heaven BTC helps those who help themselves
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December 12, 2023, 06:32:17 AM
Last edit: December 12, 2023, 07:00:55 AM by bitebits

[...] I feel it's just a chance for you guys to buy more who missed the 15K, 20K, 25K, 30K and waited for more dip.

[...]


 Roll Eyes



It is time to get beyond MtGox for good, it gets a little old and annoying after 10+ years. So please forgive our sins holding coins on a playing cards exchange, and let's get it out of the way for a clean run to new ATH's.
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ChartBuddy's 24 hour Wall Observation recap
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December 12, 2023, 08:51:10 AM
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I cannot remember your exact story in terms of your bitcoin entry date, AlcoHoDL.. but I was thinking that maybe you were only a couple of years after me...

[...]

August 2015 was my first transaction. Paid $120, got 0.5 BTC, left it in my phone, forgot about it. 3 months later it had become $200. I remember the market cap then was single-digit billions, maybe $5B (currently $800B -- 160x). I remember I was checking CoinMarketCap. Not even registered to BitcoinTalk. All purchases done via Bitcoin ATMs. No exchanges.

Great times...
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December 12, 2023, 09:22:02 AM

So basically I remember JJG fucking around and saying there is no 4 year cycle (at least 2 years ago)

Doesn't sound like the same JJG that I know.

<snip>


When I look at the reward to fee next 3  ½ ings if miners keep force fees to stay at 30 stats

10 percent fee per block   now
18 percent fee per block   2024
31 percent fee per block.  2028
47 percent fee per block   2032

what does all of the above mean for supply shock?
say

6.95000  now
3.82500  2024
2.26250  2028
1.48125  2032

if fees flatten out at .7 btc per block. the ½ effect ends  by 2036 or sooner if fees go to a steady 1 btc  a block

You come up with some doosies, sometimes... and yeah there are going to be changes in the ratios in which miners are more dependent upon fees rather than subsidies.. so yeah, each halvening we will see the extent to which the BTC price goes up which would be at least doubled ever four years for the halvening to have the same effect on the reward... so surely, it is difficult to predict that many legs in advance without necessarily knowing price, and if BTC price doubles every 4 years, then perhaps that is enough to have the subsidies to have the same effect, but we know adoption is going up too.. so usage and fees are likely to go up, as you project... so in the end ?  what is the punchline?  




[/quote]


<snip>

[/quote]



JJG we did

50         +  0.05 =   50.05
25         +  0.05 =   25.05       this looks like a real true ½ ing to me
12.5      +  0.10 =   12.60          "     "   "       "     "
6.25      +  0.70 =     6.95         "        "

3.125     + 0.70 =    3.825        this looks almost like  a ½ ing

1.5625   + 0.70 =    2.2625         this is not what any ½ ing has ever looked like      4 years and 4 months from now
0.78125 + 0.70 =    1.48125       this is certainly far different than anything we have seen in terms of ½ ing

So my point is do we see unexpected changes in 2024 a different cycle pattern

We will certainly see them in 2028 as the ½ ing will not really be one

2028 is not that far from today do other see this and plan to exit sooner than you predict? Or for that matter does this act to drive price up more than expected.

the 2024 to 2028 time slot is truly "different" than any prior as there will not be a supply drop of great significance.
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December 12, 2023, 09:37:04 AM

[...] I feel it's just a chance for you guys to buy more who missed the 15K, 20K, 25K, 30K and waited for more dip.

[...]


 Roll Eyes



It is time to get beyond MtGox for good, it gets a little old and annoying after 10+ years. So please forgive our sins holding coins on a playing cards exchange, and let's get it out of the way for a clean run to new ATH's.

Seconded.
We survived FTX, so Gox should be not much of an issue, in down terms.
Also, only idiots who get paid out in Bitcoin would sell, i guess there were far less of them in the old times...
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December 12, 2023, 09:39:31 AM


Why would we give any shits about Ethereum in these here parts?

Possible market trend change? How about good old "BTC is down because people withdraw crypto to fiat to buy Xmas presents" ? That excuse always worked.

And then "crypto?"  Why do you want to talk about that?  to the extent that "crypto" means anything that might be related to topics of his thread?

I beg your pardon. I wanted to look smart, but I have failed.
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