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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26368917 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
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January 01, 2024, 06:33:00 PM
Merited by Hueristic (1), tertius993 (1)

Happy 2024.

Another day, another AYH!  Cheesy
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January 01, 2024, 06:36:14 PM

Happy 2024.

Another day, another AYH!  Cheesy

LoL ... a very positive outlook to start the year!
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January 01, 2024, 06:39:49 PM

Quick HNY from me to all of the WO (except the well known trolls)!
Despite all the best wishes, i suffered a rather painful middle ear infection overnight, almost no sleep but also no party  Angry
On the other hand, it can only get better  Grin
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January 01, 2024, 06:44:05 PM

Happy 2024.

Another day, another AYH!  Cheesy

LoL ... a very positive outlook to start the year!

A great start of the year...

Possibly $45k+ within the first week?

January will be fun.


Quick HNY from me to all of the WO (except the well known trolls)!
Despite all the best wishes, i suffered a rather painful middle ear infection overnight, almost no sleep but also no party  Angry
On the other hand, it can only get better  Grin

HNY man!

This sounds awful. Never had infections in my ears, but have heard it can be nasty.

Get well soon, you can't miss January -- the popcorn month! (read: ETF and other fun stuff...)
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January 01, 2024, 06:48:45 PM
Merited by Hueristic (1), bitmover (1)

ChartBuddy's 24 hour Wall Observation recap
..
Credit to ChartBuddy and the year 2023

December 2023 Wall Observation recap
1 day = 1 second, beware of flashing images.

In regards to your clickable link, that is pretty interesting to put right around 745 images ((31*24)+1) in one 30-31 second clip... I was very tempted to just throw it into this response as an image, since many guys (and gal) tend to be reluctant to click on links, even when your description had already mostly prepared us (the reader who presumptively possesses some kind of a click-button function) for what it is.

Seeing the whole month like that contributes to my wee bit of curiosity regarding whether that $49k-ish sell wall is going to end up reappearing when (if?) we start to get back into the $44ks.. and surely if the sell wall had been removed, it could potentially return, but such sell wall of similar quantities of cornz "supposedly for sale" would not necessarily need to be placed at the same exact price point as it had been previously placed.


So even though I began to employ a kind of strategy of selling around 10% for every doubling of the BTC price, I never really depleted my status of being overinvested into bitcoin because due to BTC's price appreciation and inspite of my continuing to sell on the way up starting from $250, the amount of my allocation to bitcoin went from 13.5% in late 2015 to nearly 80% in late 2017 and then corrected back down to its lows of 45% at various points of 2018 and even the correction of 2020 did not bring my holdings below having around a 55%-ish allocation into bitcoin.. and so even with such practices, I believe that I had some highs that were in the 90%-ish arena, and then maybe currently I am around 75%-ish.. so I continue to be quite overallocated in terms of my original goal of 10%, but then I think that i also could adjust my allocation to 25%, but that still does not cause my 75% to come down unless I sell on the way up, which largely I continued to be quite conservative in my own practices, and I am doubting if I am ever going to really resolve the matter, because I have come to a newer philosophy about letting your winners ride.. even though there is still a kind of underlying justification to be able to sell whenever I want in order to keep the bitcoin allocation into some kind of control.. because I am thinking that the correction in 2022 when we were at our lowest of around $15,479 in 2022, I probably still was not probably not less than 65% allocated in bitcoin as compared with my other quasi-liquid assets in my investment portfolio..
That's a huge overallocation

I have mixed feelings about it, and surely a significant part of my whole bitcoin holding and/or bitcoin portfolio management philosophy has been to try to figure out how to find and to maintain comfort points to such a level that I am mostly emotionally neutral in regards to BTC price direction (especially in the short term, but surely even trying to apply that towards the longer term, too.. even though emotional neutrality is likely not 100% achievable).

I had come to conclude that my system of selling on the way up and buying on the way down helps to achieve what I mostly believe to be emotional neutrality, and some folks engage in reallocation from time to time, and others maybe invest a lot less and then just let it ride.. so there are various ways to deal with an attempt to maintain some semblance of emotional neutrality, to the extent possible.

By the way, another thing that I believe causes some level of emotional neutrality for me is that even when I got into bitcoin, I considered that my whole non-BTC holdings could support my lifestyle, and when I invested into bitcoin, I did not take from any of those investments, and sure even the first year or two that I was in BTC, I did not really add to any of my traditional investments either, I largely just let my BTC allocation get to the point that it was which was 10% in late 2014 and around 13.5% in late 2015... so if we look at the performance of my non-BTC investments, they largely increased in value by around 80%-ish in 10 years while BTC increased in value by around 40x (even if we measure from the top of the 2013 price points, which might still not be fair to BTC, but that's ok... it still kicked ass compared to traditional investments, absent some abilities of people to be able to have had picked some select stocks rather than my largely having various diversification in various index funds, bonds and properties)

I am about 23% invested in bitcoin (of my original 5%, and after 20% liquidation in 2021) and this rate above 20% still bothers me sometimes. But I think I am not that overinvested.

O.k. .. from your forum registration date, you may well be very similar to me in terms of starting at the top of a cycle, but just one cycle later, and maybe some of your numbers end up coming out differently based on the 2021 cycle top not being as extreme as the 2017 cycle top.. ...  .. but gosh I have so much trouble to consider shaving off large portions of BTC.. so maybe I have some mental deficiencies that I side so much in favor of incremental sales rather than selling in chunks, even though perhaps once in a while there may well end up being some benefits to selling larger than my customary chunks... yet I have gone through some tweaking from time to time.. .. so for example, if I had some sales that were set to be selling 1% every time that the BTC price went up 10%, then maybe I would adjust my sales amount down to three or 0.8% at the beginning of a run and then anticipate that I will increase it to 1.2% towards the end of the run, so then I change my incrementalism in incremental ways to try to be less aggressive in certain points and then more aggressive in other points, and if the BTC price does not end up performing as expected, then I might end up having some regrets about how I had structured it since the whole cycle did not end up playing out, only part of it did...

It is like the guy who gets pissed off in the last cycle because he had his sales set at  $85k, $115k and $145k in the last cycle, and none of his sales ended up getting hit, so then he is stuck with having to wait a whole another cycle for the possibility of making his sales to the extent that  he does not end up adjusting them upwards, but at least with mine, they are more incremental, so I still end up getting something out of my choices because various of my sales are sure to hit and they are also going to end up being somewhat close to the top, even if I don't have any chunk sales in there.. which surely I consider to be less stressful, because I establish them in advance and I don't really need to get BIG numbers to have satisfaction all along the way.  Almost like continuous satisfaction.  hahahahaha

There are good opportunities outside crypto ecosystem too (I think even bonds were interesting last year)

If you are referring to USG Ibonds, I have a hard time getting excited about those kinds of ploys, even though I understand that some folks did get into those, but really not a great time to be taking from BTC, but sure if you have cash sitting around, maybe it would be o.k. to lock it up into those nominally appreciating products that have questionable real term performance...especially if we saw what had been happening in 2020 and thereafter with a lot of the money printer go burr matters..and the likely desperation of the US Govt. in some respects, even though the USD remains the strongest of the weak fiat currencies.  

I am personally starting to build a small stash of uranium etf, thinking about nuclear energy expansion, and it has been performing quite well.

some commodities might make sense.. sure.

But BTC still has a better thesis than most assets and I think it will surprise everyone again with new ATHs. I will try to liquidate using this new tool we developed, and I will try to understand this rake strategy too which I didn't read yet.

Surely customizing the tools to your own circumstances remains a good thing.  The raking one does seem more applicable to someone who might feel that he has not quite accumulated enough BTC yet, even though both of them do seem to presume a status of overaccumulation, and we can define our "overaccumulation" levels however, we believe makes sense to us.

Another thing with the website one, with the monthly withdrawals, that one could be used for a particular set aside stash, so if a person has 20 BTC, then maybe he might choose to ONLY put 10 BTC into the formula, or if he decided to put the whole thing in there, then maybe he chooses a real low withdrawal rate that might ONLY be 2% since he considers himself to be more in a growth phase. .but at the same time, there can be a bit of futility that is felt for anyone to be engaging in selling of any of his BTC when in the whole scheme of things, he may well consider himself to be in a BTC accumulation phase.  

Happy new year to the WO gang from my secret location.


You look like you are in a hole (after an avalanche).  Hopefully you are able to get out.  Maybe you won't want to have your location so secret when you are wanting us to call for help (on your behalf).

Also, since there is no WO sign, any of us should be questioning authenticity.

First post of the year must be made in the WO thread!

Just a reminder that 2024 will be the year of 100k!

Ok.. I will remember to come to you when I want my money back.
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January 01, 2024, 07:01:15 PM


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January 01, 2024, 07:07:44 PM

Asset managers that submitted timely filings could launch spot #Bitcoin    ETFs as early as January 10, the 🇺🇸 SEC's decision date for Ark/21Shares ETF.

SEC could notify issuers by Tuesday or Wednesday for approval, per Reuters


Source

Fuck New Year 2024 bring more new new happyness it's going to be a crazy new year.. Another day of new year guys..


2023 close: $42,258. Up +156% from $16,528 in 2022. Ready for ETFs and halving in 2024!.. This new year is going to crazy...


jamie dimon shoving as much bitcoin as he can up his butt before the ETF is approved.




Happy BTCBitcoin 2024.. HODL it's $43k


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January 01, 2024, 07:07:53 PM
Last edit: January 01, 2024, 07:55:47 PM by Biodom
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), bitebits (1)

So even though I began to employ a kind of strategy of selling around 10% for every doubling of the BTC price, I never really depleted my status of being overinvested into bitcoin because due to BTC's price appreciation and inspite of my continuing to sell on the way up starting from $250, the amount of my allocation to bitcoin went from 13.5% in late 2015 to nearly 80% in late 2017 and then corrected back down to its lows of 45% at various points of 2018 and even the correction of 2020 did not bring my holdings below having around a 55%-ish allocation into bitcoin.. and so even with such practices, I believe that I had some highs that were in the 90%-ish arena, and then maybe currently I am around 75%-ish.. so I continue to be quite overallocated in terms of my original goal of 10%, but then I think that i also could adjust my allocation to 25%, but that still does not cause my 75% to come down unless I sell on the way up, which largely I continued to be quite conservative in my own practices, and I am doubting if I am ever going to really resolve the matter, because I have come to a newer philosophy about letting your winners ride.. even though there is still a kind of underlying justification to be able to sell whenever I want in order to keep the bitcoin allocation into some kind of control.. because I am thinking that the correction in 2022 when we were at our lowest of around $15,479 in 2022, I probably still was not probably not less than 65% allocated in bitcoin as compared with my other quasi-liquid assets in my investment portfolio..

That's a huge overallocation

I am about 23% invested in bitcoin (of my original 5%, and after 20% liquidation in 2021) and this rate above 20% still bothers me sometimes. But I think I am not that overinvested.

There are good opportunities outside crypto ecosystem too (I think even bonds were interesting last year)

I am personally starting to build a small stash of uranium etf, thinking about nuclear energy expansion, and it has been performing quite well.

But BTC still has a better thesis than most assets and I think it will surprise everyone again with new ATHs. I will try to liquidate using this new tool we developed, and I will try to understand this rake strategy too which I didn't read yet.

My policy (since 2001-2002 crash) is to never invest more than 20% in any one item (in reality, it is usually no more than 5% and at most 10%), BUT once I invest, I don't re-jig the portfolio to "balance" it. In case of btc, it has grown significantly in %% (EDIT3: I just calculated it to be 68.7% at this moment). I invested in many winning stocks before: AAPL and TSLA are just two examples [EDIT: forgot to say that I recently found a brokerage slip that said that I also invested in AMZN in Jan 2002 at some ridiculously low price, only to sell it few months later at 2X, lol], but I had a habit of selling them after, say, 10X (for AAPL; or lower-for AMZN) of my money and/or too much portfolio %%, missing on another 10X as a result. Bitcoin is the first asset where I don't do "balancing" in principle.

Consider me reckless, but since I have work cash flow, future pension and SSec lined up plus IRAs, why not? Nobody got really rich by following the "balanced" portfolio. On the other hand, if you already "made it" to, say, 5-10X of @JJG  FU status, then I see some benefit in balancing things out. BTW, Warren Buffet is ridiculously overweight in just a few stocks at 93 (I believe that just three stocks, with one being AAPL, are more than 50% of his entire equity portfolio). Is he chasing the performance or just being competitive?

EDIT2: Warren Buffet taught Bill Gates diversification, so now Bill is worth 120 bil, but he had at some point about 33% of MSFT stock (most of which he sold to 'deversify'). 33% would have made him almost a first trillionaire (922bil), with 7bil 376mil yearly dividend. I think he could have "survived" on that divvy alone (with no stock sales needed). The "funny part" is that WB probably learned something from that since he did the exact opposite and vastly increased his portfolio concentration (maybe after observing what "happened" to Bill Gates). In actuality, Gates is probably happy with what he's got, regardless of what could have been.
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January 01, 2024, 07:39:18 PM
Last edit: January 01, 2024, 10:28:51 PM by JayJuanGee
Merited by Biodom (2)

Even if NO increase in difficulty, which is unrealistic, just subsidy decrease would mean a minimal btc price of 683K by 2036, which is doable, of course.

I will admit that I have adjusted my BTC bottom in fairly conservative ways, and in accordance to my entry-level fuck you status chart, my bottom for 2036 would range anywhere between $345k and $420k, and so I have to go with my numbers if talking about bottoms, especially since projecting based on mining mumbo jumbo does not really fit into considerations of something that needs to be accounted.. .. it will work itself out. one way or another and we likely just stay on some kind of an ongoing upward trajectory, and if we need to tweak it a bit here and there (such as every 6 months) to verify that we are still within the trajectory, and the trajectory is accounting for actual world happenings (such as where the BTC price is - especially the 200-week moving average), then yeah the real world facts may end up changing the trajectory.. .. including that mining likely mostly follows price rather than the other way around.

However, difficulty rose 2.967X in the last two years, which is approximately 72.4% annually.
Assuming this continues in 2024-2036 period, difficulty would increase 689X.
Therefore, bitcoin price would have to be 689X16(subsidy reduction between now and 2036)X42700=$470724800 (~$470 mil) per btc, which seems, obviously, too high (market cap of ~$10^16 or 10000 trillions). Therefore, even if the world's GDP would be 100 tril by 2036 and ALL assets would be 1000 trillion (about double to 2.5X from now), it's does not seem possible, unless the world would have a leap to a much higher productivity and ALL assets would be 10000 trillion (AI, asteroids, etc).

If mining difficulty rise would drop in half in 2024-2036 period to 36.2%/year, then difficulty would only increase 40.75X, so the formula would be 40.75X16X42700=$27840400 (~$28 mil/btc) by 2036, which is 584X10^12 or 584 trillions in the market cap, which would be about half of world's presumed wealth by that year (~$1000 trillion). This is possible.

TL;DR After 2036-a black hole (no visibility)...too small issuance, presumably, but maybe fees would compensate, we shall see how it plays out.

It reads like a lot of gobble-dee-gook (noise) to me.

[edited out]
My policy (since 2001-2002 crash) is to never invest more than 20% in any one item (in reality, it is usually no more than 5% and at most 10%), BUT once I invest, I don't re-jig the portfolio to "balance" it. In case of btc, it has grown significantly in %%. I invested in many winning stocks before: AAPL and TSLA are just two examples, but I had a habit of selling them after, say, 10X of my money and/or too much portfolio %%, missing on another 10X as a result. Bitcoin is the first asset where I don't do "balancing" in principle.

Yeah, but how do you get to your initial allocation, and let's just presume that it would have had been 10% for bitcoin, even though I get the sense that you might have initially allocated lower than that... probably closer to 5%.. but let's just imagine that you decided you were going to allocate 10%?  how would you get there? How do you lump sum in?

For me, I did not even know what my target was for nearly a year, because I initially assigned myself a 6 month amount (a dollar amount), which happened to be an amount that I knew that I would have available within the next 6 months, and the same thing happened after I had gone through the first 6 months in order to assign myself a similar amount for the next 6 months.  So for me, I had not even realized that I had reached right around 10% until after I had been investing for a year.. so then at that point, I had started to consider that I had enough BTC... but still I let circumstances around me to continue to buy since the BTC price was pretty much flat (and even had gone down a bit more between November/December 2014 when I had made the determination that I had enough while being around 10%-ish..

Personally, I think that I was already going through some significant juggling around of my finances around that period, so I was in a kind of unusual place in terms of having cash available that I could assign towards buying BTC during 2014.. and during more typical times, I think that it would have probably taken me a couple of years to get to 10% - and part of my then issue was by 2013, I had already been investing for around 20 years, so getting to 10% as quickly as a year was actually a kind of lucky coincidence... but I could see some circumstances in which I could have had forced the 10% to happen in a year or less, if I had realized that was going to be my goal at the end of 2013 - even though I had not realized it until the end of 2014.

Consider me reckless, but since I have work cash flow, future pension and SSec lined up plus IRAs, why not?

O.k. that was pretty similar to me in regards to having everything else in order in terms of the justification to mostly just let things ride, once they are in place... even though you and I have already figured out that I do have different practices from you in terms of mostly my incrementalism.. as compared with your seeming preference for chunckenism.

Nobody got really rich by following the "balanced" portfolio. On the other hand, if you already "made it", I see some benefit in balancing things out.

A difference between growing and preserving, and I personally had always been conservative prior to bitcoin, so maybe I cannot even see myself investing into bitcoin prior to my having had already built up a pretty decent investment portfolio through years and years and years of conservativism.. and largely around 5.5% average annual returns, even though some years performed better than others.

BTW, Warren Buffet is ridiculously overweight in just a few stocks at 93 (I believe just three stocks, with one being AAPL, are more than 50% of his entire equity portfolio). Is he chasing the performance or just being competitive?

I am not really disagreeing with you on the concentration point, especially once bitcoin was discovered/invented.. I can see how any newbie could start out with just BTC and cash and then ONLY diversify after a few years of building his holdings..   diversification is not needed in the beginning of investing, but it does become more necessary once a person has built up his investment portfolio, perhaps when it starts to get anywhere between 25% to 2x of annual income, then maybe diversification starts to become necessary...

And in regards to Buffet's diversification, isn't Berkshire already diversified within itself? or are you referring to something else?
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January 01, 2024, 07:43:00 PM
Merited by Hueristic (1)

Happy New Year guys!

I predict 2024 will be a very prosperous one for us. 2025 will be better but let’s not wish this year away.

Hope you all have a great 2024.

2024 will bring us a new ATH which works for me.

Happy new years.
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January 01, 2024, 07:56:58 PM

Happy new year to the WO gang from my secret location.




You said you are in Alps. Is it Sestriere?
I cannot confirm, nor deny it. My Opsec is already too compromised!

No worries. Just enjoy this adventure and stay safe.




Just a day at local wedding ceremony. Sharing some traditional and continental dishes in the dinner menu. Anyone has idea about these one's?

   
Photo credit: WatChe
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January 01, 2024, 08:00:35 PM

Jan 1 2023 = 16.6k

Jan 1 2024 = 43.4k

Jan 1 2025 = ? 


my guess is  $113,467.47
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January 01, 2024, 08:03:24 PM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
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January 01, 2024, 08:09:17 PM
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BTW, Warren Buffet is ridiculously overweight in just a few stocks at 93 (I believe just three stocks, with one being AAPL, are more than 50% of his entire equity portfolio). Is he chasing the performance or just being competitive?

I am not really disagreeing with you on the concentration point, especially once bitcoin was discovered/invented.. I can see how any newbie could start out with just BTC and cash and then ONLY diversify after a few years of building his holdings..   diversification is not needed in the beginning of investing, but it does become more necessary once a person has built up his investment portfolio, perhaps when it starts to get anywhere between 25% to 2x of annual income, then maybe diversification starts to become necessary...

And in regards to Buffet's diversification, isn't Berkshire already diversified within itself? or are you referring to something else?

They (Berkshire) are NOT diversified, really...see the link (more than 50% of equity in one stock-AAPL).
https://hedgefollow.com/funds/Berkshire+Hathaway

That's the 'crazy' thing about it. 50% of ALL equity portfolio in ONE stock (AAPL).

WB is being jelly of Michael Saylor?

BTW, see my edit3-currently 68.7% in btc (vs yours 75%)-we are truly moving in parallel, or so it seems: almost the same year to start, roughly the same current btc %.
There maybe more stories like ours (maybe simply bacause we started at approximately the same time). Loved the incremeltalism vs chunkenism, lol...currently I am in "doing nothing" state, though.
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January 01, 2024, 08:15:25 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), Hueristic (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

Happy new year WOers.

We're already off to a good start, up a grand and a half today.

Onward and upward. Go Bitcoin go.
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January 01, 2024, 08:15:54 PM

23-year-old BTC miner was kidnapped and held for ransom.
The kidnappers demanded 15M rubles $166K and threatened to frame the victim as a drug smuggler if the money was not paid.
The kidnappers were arrested and are facing 12 years in prison.

Yea I just came across that. This a major reason why privacy is needed in the crypto space, especially for Bitcoiners. Imagine Satoshi was still around, I guess he would have been kidnapped so many times. For a guy of his nature, how much Bitcoins will be requested from him Huh

 Privacy? One of the criminals was an acquaintance of the victim.

"One of the kidnappers knew the victim personally. Each of them already has a criminal record, including under articles of robbery and extortion."
*translated from: https://ren.tv/news/v-rossii/1176251-banda-pokhitila-mainera-v-izhevske-i-potrebovala-15-mln-vykupa

 I think Robert A. Heinlein said it best, "Destination Moon"... oops I meant, “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

 
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January 01, 2024, 08:18:07 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (10), vapourminer (1), Biodom (1)

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January 01, 2024, 08:37:31 PM
Last edit: January 01, 2024, 09:50:37 PM by xhomerx10


~snip

Just a day at local wedding ceremony. Sharing some traditional and continental dishes in the dinner menu. Anyone has idea about these one's?

   
Photo credit: WatChe

 I don't know too much about this particular cuisine but I'm pretty sure I recognize chumchum on the left (that's what I call my youngest daughter - she's a sweety), tandoori naan bread in the center and various meat and rice dishes that would probably be waaaaaay too spicy for my liking.

edit: too many a's not enough o's (fixing a spelling mistake) 
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January 01, 2024, 08:53:39 PM
Merited by xhomerx10 (1)


~snip

Just a day at local wedding ceremony. Sharing some traditional and continental dishes in the dinner menu. Anyone has idea about these one's?

   
Photo credit: WatChe

 I don't know too much about this particular cuisine but I'm pretty sure I recognize chumchum on the left (that's what I call my youngest daughter - she's a sweety), tandoori naan bread in the center and various meat and rice dishes that would probably be waaaaaay to spicy for my liking. 

Chumchum or rasgulla?
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January 01, 2024, 09:01:20 PM


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